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Can Shiva cheat on Shakti?

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
SHH, You do not understand because you do not look into the Eyes of Devi. I cannot help someone like you, but actually I never try as I am not interested in doing so. Devi indeed comes in many forms, some are manifestations, some are emanations. All those which Shiva had leela with, yes, every single one of them is Devi, be what you think is only an Angel, or a Gandarva. He never cheated, because Devi is in THAT form every time. Also, Guru is your Brahma, your Vishnu, and your Maheswara. Even if that Guru is a human. Until you accept your position next to the Other, you will never understand.

Aup, you have peaked my interest as usual because you know so much about the vast diversity within Hinduism. There are many traditions I have encountered over the decades when visiting temples, hearing the "fables" of the Devas and Devi. Many Names. You know, they say one of the greatest skills is to remember the name of each face, or perhaps those important "people" you meet, that such recall is of huge benefit. It is considered a great skill. One day, I would like to put a name to all 330 million Devas and Devi. But sometimes just one Name can also work. Sort of like, you forget this or that name of this or that President. So you just say "Mr. (or Miss) President".

Actually, in the Brahmanda Purana, in the liaison (not consummated) of Shiva and Mohini, the spark of Shiva creates Shasta, who is called Skanda by some. More specifically, Dharma-Shasta is Ayyappa, Brahma-Shasta is Skanda, this is a South Indian “tradition”. It means Skanda knows the Vedas better than Brahma. Brahma-Shasta is without question a name for Muruga and Subrahmanya. Ayyappa is really coming from a Kerala tradition, but the spark known as the form of Shasta as Brahma Shasta (Subrahmanya < note) is Skanda in Tamil tradition. So, in the far South, we see this spark from the unconsummated Shiva-Mohini is becoming Skanda. Now we also hear, a spark from Shiva due to Mohini resulted in Hanuman (though indirectly). Keep in mind, the six babies – later joined to be the Six-Headed Kartikeya. I will get to that, but it should be mentioned, in the temple of Kumarakottam (in Kanchipuram, India), the central murti image of Murugan is Brahma-Shasta, He holds a water pot and rudraksha. When we see this form of Muruga, it is the form of the scholar child taking renunciation and Who knows the Vedas better than Brahma (Who is said to speak the Four Vedas from His Four Heads, the “Fifth Veda” is in Kashi where Lord Brahma’s “skull fell”). So, in the Six Babies, there is a version of the Bhasmasura where Mohini becomes a “mother” six times when Shiva asks Mohini to be His partner. Each time, Mohini tells Shiva to go ask Uma, when Shiva returns with Uma’s permission to bring Mohini into Her home, Lord Shiva finds a child. So Mohini asks Shiva to get Uma’s permission to bring home a woman with a child, and so Shiva gets Uma’s permission (remember, Uma is a very early consort of Shiva), then two children, etc., until there are six. How each has come, is not made clear but Shiva simply finds them each time He returns to Mohini. These babies are later formed into one Kartikeya. Now I understand, this is a mix of local traditions, temple traditions, obscure puranas, etc… But I can make it even more “confusing” – I have been told that from the original spark that is in scripture that created the six babies associated with the Pleiades in the star-sky, Each is related to an individual liaison living in the Mind of Shiva. That there is the aspect of Shiva’s Mind in each of the Six Heads of Kartikeya. One of these aspects is what was living in the Mind of Shiva and His relation with Mohini. Thus One of the Six Heads represents that, another would be not Mohini but say Ganga, and so on. What you believe may be different. But in Saiva tradition, there is a concept where two contrary “truths” can be side-by-side, where one totally contradicts the other – yet BOTH can be true. You may have read the Four Vedas. And some call the Ramayana (etc.) the Fifth Veda. But some say there is a Fifth Veda which was spoken from Brahma’s Fifth Head, this is not the Ramayana. I doubt you have read this Fifth Veda. They say if you listen carefully, you can hear this Fifth Veda in Kashi, “where the skull fell”. If you like, one day you may explore what this skull is, and the “story” behind it. But as many say, there are many, many “fables”. Indeed, there are many. Some happened exactly at the same time, in parallel. And there are many Ramayanas. And the final chapter of the Ramayana, IMHO, is still awaiting. But that's just me... I really love these traditions, and while they may only be fables to some, to others they are tirthas. Doorways. To the far shore.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
The Eyes of Devi are everywhere, not just some far away place. You need to first look within your own pond, if you are a frog who will never leave that pond. But there you will see the Eyes of Devi. You will not die that moment, but you will die and you will die in that pond.

Where you die can change, but you need help. Thank God, there is help. Yes, the Eyes of Devi are also in those far away places. But since She is already there, and in your pond, She does not need a Philadelphia train going 106 on the curve to get there.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
SHH

Honestly, you are so much all over the map, no one can make sense of your discussion. As another said, it is like having a discussion with a brick wall. But actually, my discussion was with the OP, DeviChaaya, not you. You are not very clever, actually, no more time should or needs to be wasted with you.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
:) One cannot apply Occam's Razor to myths, that is my basic position. And if we are going to accept them, then we need to accept the whole of them. :D
 
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ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Spiritualism or the mystic side of bhakti, karma yoga, jnana, or the soul of village Hinduism, not only writes songs and bhajans and slokas and epics, but turns these "stories" of the Devas and Devi into a pure prema bhatar experience. It is in this spiritualism that one sees oneself. Not the same as religion... but, it is in religion that this art of spiritualism becomes the paint for the canvas, creating for others to see. These "stories" are the oil colors, diverse and magical in expressing color, each pigment has a place in the next masterpiece as the savant, Guru or a Hindu mother, or father tells them .... These masterpieces are possible because of what some call myth. The Renior of light may depict a scene that never existed exactly as was the "actual" landscape. So is this Renior myth? Or still reality within a Masterpiece?

But there are some, where the lessons of the past are ignored and obliterated in a contemporary antagonism known as the haunted Hindu who is embarrassed by his own Hinduism.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
If I look into their eyes, wouldn't I be seeing their eyes? If Devi is present everywhere, why aren't we worshiping everything?
At least I do, and my wife is the biggest Devi in every sense. She makes my home. Eternally indebted to her. My mother did her job efficiently and transferred her knowledge to my wife. My daughter is a personification of love. I have been blessed.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
"don't make sense" ...

Sounds like my daughter when she was five and 1/2 years old and looking at PI r2 for the first time.

But Devi is in her, and she started to connect the dots.

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DeviChaaya

Jai Ambe Gauri
Premium Member
SHH

Honestly, you are so much all over the map, no one can make sense of your discussion. As another said, it is like having a discussion with a brick wall. But actually, my discussion was with the OP, DeviChaaya, not you. You are not very clever, actually, no more time should or needs to be wasted with you.

I see Mataji everywhere. I feel Her moving within and through me and it is beautiful when it happens. She fills the world with so much wonder that sometimes tears spring to my eyes when I think about it.

And when I'm dragging my feet She sends Her greatest devotee, Lord Shiva, to remind me not to drag my feet so long!
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Doesn't sound like scrutinizing to me. Sounds like you've already made up your mind, and you don't like the idea of anyone actually being allowed to scrutinize anything without being put in the "what's a matter with you, stupid" waste of time. You are wasting Hindus time.

You are not our knuckle-spanking nun to order anyone around.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm not sure where this antagonistic attitude in the Hindu DIR came from. This is just discussion. If anyone disagrees vehemently, create a thread in the Religious Debates and we'll be there.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Just a small note about spelling. It is Ayyappan. I realize that non-Indians or even North-Indians will make mistakes about South-Indian names. Lord Ayyappan. Only Vinayaka will get it right but he is angry. I miss him. :sad:

What happened to V-dada?
 
Hi everyone, I am an old timer who has be gone for a few years. This is what my Linage teaches.

Shiva is the Purusha. Shakti is Parkriti. Both together are Brahman. There is nothing in our Universe that is not our Mother. All matter is Kali. Without Her Shiva or consciousness can not manifest in Maya. So how could Shiva cheat ?
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ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Mommy, how did the baby get in there? It doesn't make sense.

Auntie, why are your bosoms bigger than my mommy's and my mommy is older than you? It doesn't make sense.

Why should grandma wear a new dress? It doesn't make sense. Grandma should wear an old dress and not mix things up.

Are we there yet?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
If Kali is in everything, why aren't we worshiping everything?
Some take that stance. Devotees see their deity in all things, some would see Shiva, some Vishnu, some Devi. For 'advaitists' All things are Brahman. For me since, all things are Brahman (including myself), therefore I do not worship anything.

You do not know about love and what it can do. Qays ibn al-Mulawwah of the Banu 'Amir (Majnun, which means 'possessed', 'mad') saw Allah in Laila. Have you not heard of Urdu shayari where poets say that they loved their idols so much that the idols became Khuda?
 
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