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Can someone explain the Trinity please...

K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
cataway said:
As I recall we were talking about Acts 20:28.that is the verse shown in the ED and that's what the footnote is for
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I will go back and look at your post again.

I asked if you thought the ED was a credible source. You didn't answer yes or no. You said you like the KI better, which did not answer my question, is the ED a credible source?
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
JM2C said:
Those verses came from the bible and all you have to do is read them. Without ambiguity, cleared of any doubts, unbiased, and as you can read them, the Lord Jesus Christ, based on the scriptures, is God, the Son of God.

I did not have to alter nor adulterate nor forge any of them just to satisfy my own flesh like those whose appetites is just to satisfy their own belly, which is their god, and alter, adulterate, and forge the very Word of God for their own self-satisfaction.

They need to preserve the continuity, [from Aquila, Theodotion to the present time] of this alterations, adulterations, and forgeries of the very Word of God so they could fill up their needs to satisfy their own flesh. IOW, their belly is their god.

Now, these alterations, adulterations, forgeries of the very Word of God by these people, from Aquila’s, Theodotion’s, Symachus’, to Westcott’s and Hort’s, and Moffatt’s, and JW’s, clearly and without a doubt came only from one source, and that is, from satan himself. They cannot be divided into many groups because one cannot stand up by itself.

Mt 12:26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?

As you can read they have one thing in common, and those are, denying the virgin birth, the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Word became flesh, even the resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ.

IOW, these people are the antichrist.

1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar? [see John 8:44] It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2Jn 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
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[As you can read they have one thing in common, and those are, denying the virgin birth, the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Word became flesh, even the resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ.]
No one is denying the virgin birth, the Gods Word becoming flesh, the resurrection and ascention of Jesus. Just Jesus as God. There is only one God, that is Yahweh.

But I'm glad you put in the other verses, thanks. "And every person that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist," What does this verse tell us? Plus, along with the book of Hebrews, esp. chapter 2. He was like us. He was made like his brethren, same nature. He had to be like us. If he was God, then the atonement goes out the window.
 
JayJayDee

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
JM2C said:
Those verses came from the bible and all you have to do is read them. Without ambiguity, cleared of any doubts, unbiased, and as you can read them, the Lord Jesus Christ, based on the scriptures, is God, the Son of God.
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We can all read the scriptures that say Jesus is "the son of God"....I just can't find one that says "Jesus is God Almighty".....can you provide one unambiguous passage that states that states that God himself had to become a human and die? (As if that was even possible or necessary)

Now, these alterations, adulterations, forgeries of the very Word of God by these people, from Aquila’s, Theodotion’s, Symachus’, to Westcott’s and Hort’s, and Moffatt’s, and JW’s, clearly and without a doubt came only from one source, and that is, from satan himself. They cannot be divided into many groups because one cannot stand up by itself.
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Why not quote the whole passage?

Luke 11:14-20...."And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed. But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.” Others, to test Him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven. But He knew their thoughts and said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls. If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." (NASB)

Those who accused Jesus of getting his power from "Beelzebub" (Lord of the Flies which was another name for the leader of the demons...satan) were themselves misled by him. History repeats you know. Pots calling kettles black.

A quick look at Christendom will add to your argument. (1 Cor 1:10) How divided would you like? (Matt7:21-23)

As you can read they have one thing in common, and those are, denying the virgin birth, the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Word became flesh, even the resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ.

IOW, these people are the antichrist.
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Who is denying the virgin birth? Not JW's.

Who is denying the divinity of Jesus Christ? Not JW's.
Being "a god" does not make you Almighty God if the same terminology (theos) is given to even humans. (John 10:34, 35)
Not once is Jesus called Almighty God. Not once did he ask to be worshipped but directed all worship to his Father "alone". (Luke 4:8)

Who denies that the Word became flesh? Not JW's
The Word was not "ho theos".

Who denies the resurrection and ascension of The Lord Jesus Christ? Not JW's.....so where is your antichrist?

1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar? [see John 8:44] It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.
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Trinitarians deny the relative positions of the Father and son, making them into one deity....this is denying the Father and son. So who is the antichrist?

1Jn 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
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Acknowledging that Jesus is "from" God is not a trait of the antichrist.
Proclaiming that Jesus "is" God is the problem. This is a trait of the antichrist.

2Jn 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
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The deceivers who have gone out into the world were busy even in the first century. The "weeds" of Jesus parable were not sown recently. The antichrist is not a new arrival...he is an ancient one.

Jesus most assuredly came in the flesh but he was not an incarnation of his Father. He was "sent" by his Father as an "apostle" of that one. How does one become his own apostle? (Heb 3:1)
 
JayJayDee

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Wharton said:
If he was not God, you have no atonement.
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No, you have extreme overkill. The life of the Almighty, Creator of all things to atone for the life of a wayward human......seriously. o_O

Why was Jesus called "the last Adam"? (1 Cor 15:45)
 
W

Wharton

Active Member
JayJayDee said:
The deceivers who have gone out into the world were busy even in the first century. The "weeds" of Jesus parable were not sown recently. The antichrist is not a new arrival...he is an ancient one.
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So what you're saying is that, even after Jesus trained them, the Apostles were total idiots that were incapable of properly training people for the future of the church? That it took 1800 years until CT Russell figured it all out?
 
JayJayDee

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Wharton said:
The absurdity is that non-Trinitarians believe that God accepts human sacrifice as an offering. It's a fact that human sacrifice is not acceptable to God in the OT, being emphasized by the Abraham/Isaac scenario. And you believe that it is acceptable which is contrary to scripture. So when did the immutable God change his mind?
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So can you tell me what the blood sacrifices in Israel were all about? They were mandatory under the law. And after Jesus dies, they ceased.

Hebrews 9:22..."According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."

Jesus’ shed blood validates the new covenant. That blood also makes possible the forgiveness of sins once and for all time. Jesus is not a party to the new covenant. Being without sin, he needs noforgiveness. But God could apply the value of Jesus’ shed blood to Adam’s descendants. He could also adopt certain devoted humans “as sons” by anointing them with holy spirit. These "sons" are not God either.
 
JayJayDee

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Wharton said:
So what you're saying is that, even after Jesus trained them, the Apostles were total idiots that were incapable of properly training people for the future of the church? That it took 1800 years until CT Russell figured it all out?
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No, the apostles were not total idiots...they came later in the guise of Christians who had a pagan agenda. Roman by name and Roman by nature. Sun worshippers pretending to be Christians.

The "wheat and the weeds" were to "grow together until the harvest time".
All through history, the weeds did what weeds always do...they almost choked the wheat out of existence. Every time the "wheat" protested about the corruption, they were silenced, just like the prophets of old in Judaism.

The apostasy was foretold and history attests to the damage done to Christianity as a result. When the harvest time came a complete division occurred and the wheat became clearly distinct and separate from the weeds, who all hold the same Babylonian based beliefs but are fractured into thousands of disunited sects....all daughters of the same mother.
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
JayJayDee said:
No, the apostles were not total idiots...they came later in the guise of Christians who had a pagan agenda. Roman by name and Roman by nature. Sun worshippers pretending to be Christians.

The "wheat and the weeds" were to "grow together until the harvest time".
All through history, the weeds did what weeds always do...they almost choked the wheat out of existence. Every time the "wheat" protested about the corruption, they were silenced, just like the prophets of old in Judaism.

The apostasy was foretold and history attests to the damage done to Christianity as a result. When the harvest time came a complete division occurred and the wheat became clearly distinct and separate from the weeds, who all hold the same Babylonian based beliefs but are fractured into thousands of disunited sects....all daughters of the same mother.
Click to expand...
Even today the weeds take credit for those that sacrificed everything to keep the written word of God in the language of the common people.
 
W

Wharton

Active Member
JayJayDee said:
No, the apostles were not total idiots...they came later in the guise of Christians who had a pagan agenda. Roman by name and Roman by nature. Sun worshippers pretending to be Christians.

The "wheat and the weeds" were to "grow together until the harvest time".
All through history, the weeds did what weeds always do...they almost choked the wheat out of existence. Every time the "wheat" protested about the corruption, they were silenced, just like the prophets of old in Judaism.

The apostasy was foretold and history attests to the damage done to Christianity as a result. When the harvest time came a complete division occurred and the wheat became clearly distinct and separate from the weeds, who all hold the same Babylonian based beliefs but are fractured into thousands of disunited sects....all daughters of the same mother.
Click to expand...
So none of these disciples had the brains to properly train their successors? Not one? That is highly unlikely. Yep, the church had to wait until Charlie came around to set things straight. I don't think so.

So tell me the names of the wheat. Where were they located? I'd give your theory some credit if you would admit that JW's are gnostic Arians. That would give a name/date/location to your so-called wheat. The fact is you're Russellites.
 
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