Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[Wharton]

Under the heading “Tetragrammaton in the New Testament,” TheAnchorBibleDictionary states: “There is some evidence that the Tetragrammaton, the Divine Name, Yahweh, appeared in some or all of the O[ld] T[estament] quotations in the N[ew] T[estament] when the NT documents were first penned.” Scholar George Howard says: “Since the Tetragram was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible [the Septuagint] which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N[ew] T[estament] writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text.”

The Tosefta, a written collection of oral laws that was completed by about 300 C.E., says with regard to Christian writings that were burned on the Sabbath: “The books of the Evangelists and the books of the minim [thought to be Jewish Christians] they do not save from a fire. But they are allowed to burn where they are, they and the references to the Divine Name which are in them.” This same source quotes Rabbi Yosé the Galilean, who lived at the beginning of the second century C.E., as saying that on other days of the week, “one cuts out the references to the Divine Name which are in them [understood to refer to the Christian writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns.”

So it says the Tetragrammaton was present. Not Yahweh. Not Jehovah.

 

[Kolibri]

So it says the Tetragrammaton was present. Not Yahweh. Not Jehovah.

Nor was Jesus with the spelling we use today. What's your point?

 

[Wharton]

Personally I find it very scandalous when we, mere humans, choose to invalidate scripture through tradition. Even when that tradition has been around long enough to become history.

"He said to them: 'Isaiah aptly prophesied about you hypocrites, as it is written, "This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines." You let go of the commandment of God and cling to the tradition of men.'" - Mark 7:6-8

This includes the tradition to hide God's name.

It's what the church did regarding the Tetragrammaton whether you like it or not.

 

[Kolibri]

It seems that you are taking issue with the fact that the Tetragrammaton original pronunciation is not known or at least not widely known, and asserting then that any variant pronunciation should be refused.
This is straining out the gnat and gulping down the camel. Words and names change from language to language. What is important is that the common people readily know who or what you are talking about. It is the ideas that are important. Not the spelling and sounds. What happens when someone is deaf? Are they disallowed to use a variant that works for them?

 

[moorea944]

If he was not God, you have no atonement.

No, you just dont understand what the atonement is. Think about.... It had to be someone like us. Not a "God". It had to be someone of our nature. To "overcome" sin in the flesh. If Jesus was God (which he is not), then why did he have to be baptised and had to be glorified? Scripture tells us that God works thru His son. It DOES NOT tell us that Jesus is God. God was working through His Son reconciling the world unto Himself.... Very easy to understand.

 

[Wharton]

No, you just dont understand what the atonement is. Think about.... It had to be someone like us. Not a "God". It had to be someone of our nature. To "overcome" sin in the flesh. If Jesus was God (which he is not), then why did he have to be baptised and had to be glorified? Scripture tells us that God works thru His son. It DOES NOT tell us that Jesus is God. God was working through His Son reconciling the world unto Himself.... Very easy to understand.

So your Jesus was a sinner and needed to be baptized as John's baptism was a baptism of repentence? What sin was Jesus repenting of? Whoops. Jesus was a sinner needing baptism for the repentence of sin, there goes your perfect sacrifice.

Only the custom-written NWT that no one else uses (hint) tells us that Jesus is not God.

Following your reasoning that Jesus was just a sinless Jewish man, and since Jews don't believe in original sin, then any Jewish baby that died before the age of reason (capable of sinning) would have been an acceptable sinless atonement. How about all of those sinless babies under two years of age killed by Herod? Were they an acceptable sacrifice? Why not?

 

[JayJayDee]

It's what the church did regarding the Tetragrammaton whether you like it or not.

If you believe that Jesus is God then why don't you have a problem with his name in English? Do you call him by his Hebrew name?

Why does one part of God have a name that no one can say....another that must be used in prayer and a third with no name at all......?

 

[JayJayDee]

Only the custom-written NWT that no one else uses (hint) tells us that Jesus is not God.

No correct translation of the Bible teaches that Jesus is God because there is not one statement from either God or his son stating this is true. You haven't provided one unambiguous verse to date and here we are over a thousand responses into this thread and we haven't seen one yet.

 

[jchristopher]

I was talking to a Lutheran Pastor the other day and he said God provided the greatest gift when he offered himself up as Jesus on the cross. But from what I read in the Bible, when Jesus was on the cross, he spoke to God in heaven. How then can he be God at the same time? Please explain. Thanks

The Father (Elohim) is the father of the spirits of all mankind who ever have been, are, and ever will be, including Jesus, otherwise known as Jehovah or the God of the Old Testament. Jesus is a spirit son of God, just like us, but the only one begotten by Him in the flesh. The Father and Jesus are separate and distinct beings, as is the Holy Ghost. Three separate and distinct beings make up the godhead. The Father has a perfect and immortal body of flesh and bone as does Jesus. But the Holy Ghost does not, otherwise he could not dwell in us. We were quite literally created in God's own image. Jesus was selected as our Savior and the Godhead formed long before the earth was formed, at which time we all dwelt as spirits in the presence of the Almighty.

 

[cataway]

The Father has a perfect and immortal body of flesh and bone as does Jesus

what ?

 

[JayJayDee]

The Father (Elohim) is the father of the spirits of all mankind who ever have been, are, and ever will be, including Jesus, otherwise known as Jehovah or the God of the Old Testament. Jesus is a spirit son of God, just like us, but the only one begotten by Him in the flesh.

Whoa there.....lets back up a little....

Can I ask you what "the spirits of all mankind who have ever been" are, according to your belief?
The spirit in man is not the same as spirit beings who inhabit the heavenly realm. Man's spirit is the spark of life that is sustained with every breath, keeping the physical organism alive. We have a spiritual side to our nature, because, out of all the creatures on this planet, we alone feel the need to worship our Creator.....but we are mortal humans who were designed to live as material beings forever on earth. This life was not supposed to be a training ground for heaven.

"Jesus is a spirit son of God, just like us"? We are fleshly sons and daughters of God, not "spirit sons". Jesus was "only begotten" long before he was sent into the world to become the Christ. (1 John 4:7-10) The pre-human Jesus was the Word (Logos, spokesman) who was "with God" before all other things were brought into existence. (Col 1:15, 16) He is not God nor is he a part of God. He is "the son of God".

There is no "godhead"...there is "one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor 8:5, 6; John 17:3)

The Father and Jesus are separate and distinct beings, as is the Holy Ghost. Three separate and distinct beings make up the godhead.

Firstly, there is one God, not three. The Jews were monotheists who did not ever worship a triune God....and Jesus was Jewish. He did not once claim equality with his God, but rather directed all worship to the Father "alone" (Luke 4:8)

There is no "Holy Ghost". There is holy spirit, which is not a person. "Ghost" was a German word (geist, meaning spirit) adopted by trinitarians in an attempt to make God's spirit part of a threesome. The Bible never does.

The Father has a perfect and immortal body of flesh and bone as does Jesus.

Huh??
Where did you get that idea? "God is a spirit" (John 4:24) not a being of flesh. Flesh and blood cannot exist in the spirit realm. This is why the ones taken to heaven to rule with Christ need to leave their mortal bodies of flesh behind and be transformed into spirit creatures in order to dwell in the presence of God. (1 Cor 15:50-57)

But the Holy Ghost does not, otherwise he could not dwell in us. We were quite literally created in God's own image.

My goodness....only one part of God doesn't have a body? Really?
Where did you come across these beliefs? I have never heard of this before.

Jesus was selected as our Savior and the Godhead formed long before the earth was formed, at which time we all dwelt as spirits in the presence of the Almighty.

Ah......LDS by any chance?
Sorry, but the Bible does not even hint at such an idea.

 

[Kolibri]

So your Jesus was a sinner and needed to be baptized as John's baptism was a baptism of repentence? What sin was Jesus repenting of? Whoops. Jesus was a sinner needing baptism for the repentence of sin, there goes your perfect sacrifice.

Hebrews 10:5-10 links Jesus' baptism to the 40th Psalm. Verse 5 in particular starts out with the words, "So when he comes into the world, he says:" As you know, the holy spirit came down in the form of a dove upon Jesus at his baptism. It is at this moment that he "comes into the world" as the Christ. ("anointed one.") So, unlike John's general baptizing in symbol of repentance, Jesus' baptism is a symbol of his presenting himself to do God's will. It was time for him to start his ministry. He was not baptized to express repentance.

"So when he comes into the world, he says: '"Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me. You did not approve of whole burnt offerings and sin offerings." Then I said: "Look! I have come (in the scroll it is written about me) to do your will, O God."' After first saying: 'You did not want nor did you approve of sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sin offerings' - sacrifices that are offered according to the Law - then he says: 'Look! I have come to do your will.' He does away with what is first in order to establish what is second. By this 'will' we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time." - Hebrews 10:5-10

 

[katiemygirl]

"I have made your name known to them and will make it known," - John 17:26a Father is a title.

Jesus called Him Father and instructed us to do likewise. No Jew during Jesus time used the name YHWH. There is no extant Greek manuscript, which uses YHWH.

I agree YHWH is His name, and it is in the OT repeatedly. But it is not in the NT Greek.

Don't you think that if our heavenly Father wanted us to call Him YHWH, the Holy Spirit would have guided the NT authors to record it? And don't you trust in the promise of our Father to preserve His word forever?

Proponents of the NWT are taking a huge risk, putting their eternal life on the line by adding to the words of Revelation. John warned in 22:19,

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this

JW's claim that we must call our Father by a sacred name. Contrary to their belief, there is and was NO COMMAND anywhere in scripture given by God to call Him by Jehovah or any sacred name. Love for Him is what is required; not the lust for the sacred letters of a sacred name.

 

[cataway]

I see a problem with your thinking . From the book of acts 2:34 (kingdom interlinear)it reads "Not γὰρ for Δαυεὶδ David ἀνέβη went up εἰς into τοὺς the οὐρανούς, heavens, λέγει he is saying δὲ but αὐτός he Εἶπεν Said Κύριος Lord τῷ to the κυρίῳ Lord μου of me Κάθου Be sitting ἐκ out of δεξιῶν right [parts] μου"

Κύριος is Jehovah , κυρίῳ is lord
Yet in your bible both words are Lord, right? one lord small case letters , the other LORD ?

the emphatic diaglott. uses Jehovah in acts 2:34

 

[Nada]

I see a problem with your thinking . From the book of acts 2:34 it reads "Not γὰρ for Δαυεὶδ David ἀνέβη went up εἰς into τοὺς the οὐρανούς, heavens, λέγει he is saying δὲ but αὐτός he Εἶπεν Said Κύριος Lord τῷ to the κυρίῳ Lord μου of me Κάθου Be sitting ἐκ out of δεξιῶν right [parts] μου"

Κύριος is Jehovah , κυρίῳ is lord
Yet in your bible both words are Lord, right? one lord small case words , the other LORD ?

That is a quote of Psalm 110:1 Darby Bible Translation
{Psalm of David.} Jehovah said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put thine enemies [as] footstool of thy feet. It used to be in the KJV bible too but it was removed.

American Standard Version
Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Young's Literal Translation
A Psalm of David. The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: 'Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'

 

[cataway]

yes Jehovah is used in the Greek scriptures

 

[URAVIP2ME]

YHWH is not pronounced Jehovah so you must have another god.

The Bible was Not originally written in English. First in Hebrew, then in Greek.
The name Jesus is the accepted English pronunciation of his Hebrew name.
The Tetragrammaton - YHWH - would be pronounced differently in different languages.
None of which would make the Tetragrammaton as being wrong, or non-existent.
The old KJV Bible uses the accepted English pronunciation of God's name at Psalm 83:18

 

[katiemygirl]

yes Jehovah is used in the Greek scriptures

Jehovah is not used in any extant Greek New Testament manuscript. Adding and taking away from the book of Revelation will bring dire consequences.

 

[katiemygirl]

The Bible was Not originally written in English. First in Hebrew, then in Greek.
The name Jesus is the accepted English pronunciation of his Hebrew name.
The Tetragrammaton - YHWH - would be pronounced differently in different languages.
None of which would make the Tetragrammaton as being wrong, or non-existent.
The old KJV Bible uses the accepted English pronunciation of God's name at Psalm 83:18

Where in the Bible are we commanded to use the name Jehovah?

Jesus said when we talk to God, we should address Him as our Father. That is what Jesus consistently called Him. Not one time did Jesus tell us to call God Jehovah.

God very specifically said,

"This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

Why isn't Jesus being listened to by JW's?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I see a problem with your thinking . From the book of acts 2:34 (kingdom interlinear)it reads "Not γὰρ for Δαυεὶδ David ἀνέβη went up εἰς into τοὺς the οὐρανούς, heavens, λέγει he is saying δὲ but αὐτός he Εἶπεν Said Κύριος Lord τῷ to the κυρίῳ Lord μου of me Κάθου Be sitting ἐκ out of δεξιῶν right [parts] μου"
Κύριος is Jehovah , κυρίῳ is lord
Yet in your bible both words are Lord, right? one lord small case letters , the other LORD ?
the emphatic diaglott. uses Jehovah in acts 2:34

Can you show us from the Greek the using of God's personal name in Revelation ?