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Can someone explain the Trinity please...

W

Wharton

Active Member
cataway said:
then I have some homework for you. find out why all capitals are used in the word LORD .KJV
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No caps. The KJV is below:

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
 
W

Wharton

Active Member
Kolibri said:
Love the bias for what is credible and what is not.

It is unreasonable to think that Jesus would have purposely switched the Tetragrammation for "Lord" or "God" when he quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures, or even the Greek Septuagint, which the early copies did contain as noted by fragments found. When we consider that he would have a personal memory of what was in the holy writings from his pre-human existence, the existence of the fragments proving that the name was still in use become irrelevant, for we know he detested the oral traditions.

"But he answered: 'It is written: "Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah's mouth."'" - Matthew 4:4; De 8:3
"Jesus said to him: 'Again it is written: "You must not put Jehovah your God to the test."'"- Matthew 4:7; De 6:16
"Then Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written: "It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."'" - Matthew 4:10; De 6:12; 10:20
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How about thinking that the NWT translators inserted Jehovah where it doesn't belong because they had an agenda?
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
If Christ is IN YOU, and the Spirit of God is inside of your bodies, why not just seek Him for the truth? Ask Him if He's God.
 
K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Kolibri said:
Love the bias for what is credible and what is not.

It is unreasonable to think that Jesus would have purposely switched the Tetragrammation for "Lord" or "God" when he quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures, or even the Greek Septuagint, which the early copies did contain as noted by fragments found. When we consider that he would have a personal memory of what was in the holy writings from his pre-human existence, the existence of the fragments proving that the name was still in use become irrelevant, for we know he detested the oral traditions.

"But he answered: 'It is written: "Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah's mouth."'" - Matthew 4:4; De 8:3
"Jesus said to him: 'Again it is written: "You must not put Jehovah your God to the test."'"- Matthew 4:7; De 6:16
"Then Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written: "It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."'" - Matthew 4:10; De 6:12; 10:20
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There is zero proof for your assertions. No extant Greek manuscript of the NT exists, which contains the tetragrammation. What is unreasonable is your suggestion that an international conspiracy took place, which removed the tetragrammation from every single mss. Instead of accepting these great witnesses, you opt for conspiracy.

Further, there is not a single command in the entire Bible that says we are to address God as Jehovah, and you know it.
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Wharton said:
No caps. The KJV is below:

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
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Mt 4:4 quotes De 8:3b "but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live" (KJV)
Mt 4:7 quotes De 6:16 "Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah." (KJV)
Mt 4:10 quotes De 6:13; 10:20 "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name." "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name." (KJV)
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
katiemygirl said:
God does not speak to us audibly today. He speaks to us through His word, which you don't seem to give any regard to.
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If His sheep "hear" His voice, why can't you hear it audibly within? Do you have the Spirit of God or the spirit of bible worldy reading?
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
katiemygirl said:
God does not speak to us audibly today. He speaks to us through His word, which you don't seem to give any regard to.
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The Almighty God is limited to a book? The bible forgives your sins, transforms you, gives you comfort, created the world, tells you where to go in YOUR life and the will of YOUR life? Tells you what to speak, tells you when you're suffering fruitfully, tells you when you're trying to be corrected, and disciplined? The bible destroys your sin and you are cleansed and washed by "his word-the bible?"
 
W

Wharton

Active Member
Kolibri said:
Mt 4:4 quotes De 8:3b "but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live" (KJV)
Mt 4:7 quotes De 6:16 "Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah." (KJV)
Mt 4:10 quotes De 6:13; 10:20 "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name." "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name." (KJV)
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Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Wharton said:
Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
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And so, when the KJV translated Mt 4 to English it neglected to check the Hebrew text that was being quoted. That is all this proves.
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
Why doesn't everyone just look in the bible.... It'll state which version of the hundreds is accurate and of true text. If you can even find the bible in the bible.
 
Kolibri

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Unification said:
Why doesn't everyone just look in the bible.... It'll state which version of the hundreds is accurate and of true text. If you can even find the bible in the bible.
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Every last one of them will need adjusted some as languages morph and more fragments or manuscripts are found and examined. Some are more faithful to what we have currently then others. And, at this point, that is where this thread has deviated into.
 
JayJayDee

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
jchristopher said:
The spirit inside man is a child of God who dwelt with God before the foundations of the earth.
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Could I please have a direct scriptural reference for that?

Read: Ecclesiastes 12:7; Jeremiah 1:5; Acts 17:28; Hebrews 12:9; Ephesians 1:4. What say ye?
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Lots.....:) None of these say what you think they say.....

(Ecclesiastes 12:7) "Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it."

The Greek pneuʹma (spirit) comes from pneʹo, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ruʹach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ruʹach and pneuʹma, then, basically mean “breath. When we say someone has pneumonia are we saying that they have a sick spirit? Or a lung infection?

When I say that the tyres on my car are pneumatic, am I saying that they have a spirit....or air? The spirit in man is his God-given breath.
When Adam was formed, how did God make him live? He "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life" This is the spirit or "breath" in man. Adam then "became" a soul i.e. a living, breathing creature.

The scriptures do not teach that humans have a separate conscious part of them that lives apart from the body, so the Hebrew scriptures do not posit such a belief. Jesus never taught it. He accepted Eccl 9:5, 10 which states that in "sheol" (hades, the grave) there is no conscious existence at all....."no planning, no wisdom", no conscious activity...period.

(Jeremiah 1:5) “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I sanctified you. I made you a prophet to the nations.”

God was telling Jeremiah that he was born to be God's prophet. This does not apply to humans in general. Certain ones were chosen before birth for special assignments.Jeremiah and John the Baptist were two such individuals.

(Acts 17:28) "For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’"

All of God's intelligent creation are his "children". They are given life by their heavenly Father. Angels are called "sons of God". These are spirits sons.
Jesus was a spirit before coming to earth to be born as a human child. Adam is called a son of God too, but there is no indication that he lived in heaven before his creation on earth.
Where does this suggest that we were spirits in heaven before our earthly life? Adam was not told that he would return to heaven if he sinned...he was told that he would die and go back to the dust from which he was taken. No afterlife or pre-life was even hinted at.

(Hebrews 12:9) "Furthermore, our human fathers used to discipline us, and we gave them respect. Should we not more readily submit ourselves to the Father of our spiritual life and live?"

Here God is compared to a parent who, out of love disciplines his children. As spiritual people we owe God our obedience and must submit to his will.
Again, I see no connection to pre-existence.

(Ephesians 1:4) "as he chose us to be in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and unblemished before him in love."

"Before the founding of the world" doesn't mean before the creation of the planet....how could it? That would mean that humans did not have free will and were doomed from the day they were created. The tree of the knowledge of good and bad was a cruel trap. God knew what the devil and the first humans were going to do all along. What kind of a father would deliberately set his children up for failure, suffering and death? o_O

The expression "from the founding of the world" carries the meaning of "laying down seed"...as in human conception. Adam and his wife did not have children until after they sinned. So in sentencing Adam and his wife, God gave the first prophesy in Gen 3:15. This is when he promised the savior and the seed who would belong to him. Before the laying down of Adam's seed as in the conception of his children, God had everything covered. Before any human came from the now sinful Adam, (Rom 5:12) Christ was assigned to die for them and his seed were already foretold. All prophesied from before the time they came into existence.
 
JayJayDee

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
jchristopher said:
When exactly did God stop talking to man audibly?
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God stopped talking to humans audibly when the Bible writing was finished.

People who talk to God are everywhere....people to whom God talks are usually not well. :(

Heb 1:1,2...."Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets. 2 And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe."

If we have the complete word of God, which includes the gospels, then what more do we need? (2 Tim 3:16, 17) :)
 
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