Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[Nada]

the doctrine of the trinity-which maintains that there is only one God (monotheism) with three persons within the one godhead. Think of a triangle...
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There are three points but it is still one triangle. One God. The Trinity permeates throughout the Bible as here are a few examples....
For example, Peter refers to the saints who have been chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God The Father." (1 Peter 1:2) when Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, the disciple worshipfully responded be addressing Him, "My Lord and MY GOD." (John 20:28) The Father also said of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever." In Acts 5:3-4, we are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God. Peter said,"Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit,,, You have not lied to men but to God."
Besides being called God, each of the three persons are seen on different occasions to possess the attributes of deity. Note the following examples:
All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence:
The Father (1 Kings 8:27)
The Son (Matthew 28:20)
The Holy Spirit (psalm 139:7)
All three have the attribute of omniscience:
The Father (psalm 147:5)
The Son (John 16:30)
The Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10)
All there have the attribute of omnipotence:
The Father (Psalm 135:6)
The Son (Matthew 28:18)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 15:19)
Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Revelation 15:4)
The Son (Acts 3:14)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 1:4)
Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Psalm 90:2)
The Son (Micah 5:2, John 1:4)
The Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14)
Each if the three persons is described as the Truth:
The Father (John 7:28)
The Son (Revelation 3:7)
The Holy Spirit (1 John 5:6)
Each of the three is called Lord (Luke 2:11, Romans 10:12, 2 Corinthians 3:17) each is called Everlasting (Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 22:13) each is called Almighty (Genesis 17:1, Romans 15:19, Revelation 1:8) and each is called Powerful (Jeremiah 32:17, Zechariah 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
Can any one other than God have the Attributes of God?
In addition to having the attributes of deity, each of the three persons were involved in doing the works of deity. For example, all three were involved in the creation of the world:
The Father (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 102:25, 1 Corinthians 8:6)
The Son (John 1:3, Colossians 1;16, Hebrews 1:2)
The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:30)
They were also involved in the incarnation and resurrection but I won't go into those verses as I think these are good for now.

The holy spirit is not a person, nor is it part of a Trinity.When Jesus speaks of he and the father as one,there is never any mention of the holy spirit in this union.Jesus calls God his God and yours.God the Almighty does not have a God.Jesus does.

 

[JFish123]

The holy spirit is NOT a person.


What the Bible Says

"An honest Bible reader cannot help but conclude that the holy spirit differs from official church descriptions of it as a person. Consider the following Bible accounts.

1. When Mary, the mother of Jesus, visited her cousin Elizabeth, the Bible says that the unborn child in Elizabeth’s womb leaped, “and Elizabeth was filled with holy spirit.” (Luke 1:41) Is it reasonable that a person would be “filled” with another person?


2. When John the Baptizer spoke to his disciples about Jesus as the one who would succeed him, John said: “I, for my part, baptize you with water . . . , but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not fit to take off. That one will baptize you people with holy spirit.” (Matthew 3:11) John could hardly have been referring to the holy spirit as a person when he spoke of baptizing people with it.


3. While visiting a Roman army officer and his family, the apostle Peter spoke of Jesus as having been anointed by God “with holy spirit and power.” (Acts 10:38) Shortly afterward, “the holy spirit fell upon” the army officer’s household. The account says that many were amazed “because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations.” (Acts 10:44, 45) Here again, the terms used are inconsistent with the idea of the holy spirit being a person.

It is not unusual for God’s Word to personify things that are not a person. These include wisdom, discernment, sin, death, and undeserved kindness. (Proverbs 8:1–9:6; Romans 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) Jesus himself said that “wisdom is proved righteous by all its children,” or its good results. (Luke 7:35) Clearly, wisdom is not a person that has literal children! Likewise, the holy spirit is not a person simply because in some instances it is personified."

Is the Holy Spirit a Person? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

The Watchtower Society mistranslates the word of God many times as well as having beliefs contrary to scripture like Jesus being the archangel Michael and that only 144,000 anointed will go to heaven. They also falsely believe that trinity means three gods which it does not. See my above post for more detail if you wish.

 

[JFish123]

The holy spirit is not a person, nor is it part of a Trinity.When Jesus speaks of he and the father as one,there is never any mention of the holy spirit in this union.Jesus calls God his God and yours.God the Almighty does not have a God.Jesus does.

First, why did Jesus call the Father "my God?" Does this imply Jesus Himself is not God? By no means! Prior to the incarnation, Christ, the second person in the trinity, has only a divine nature. But in the incarnation Christ took on a human nature. It is this in his humanity that Christ acknowledged the Father as "my God."
Since Christ came as a man, and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to, and adore God, it was perfectly proper for Jesus to call the Father "my God." Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew, and as our High Priest ("made like His brothers in every way", Hebrews 2:27) Jesus could address the Father as "God." However Jesus did not relate to the Father in this way until he "emptied Himself" and became man, as it says in Philippians 2:6-8.
As well, Jesus always distinguished His relationship to God and mans relationship to God. He always said my God or your God but never 'our' God. That's because He is Gods Son by Nature, where as we are His Sons by adoption. And in His nature He was and is the very essence of God Himself.
Secondly, Thomas was not expressing surprise at seeing the risen Christ when he called Him "My Lord and My God." If Thomas had done this he would have been guilty of taking Gods name in vain. Jews of the first century believed that any careless use of Gods name amounted to blasphemy. If Thomas HAD taken Gods name in vain, Jesus surely would have rebuked him for doing so. But not only did Jesus NOT rebuke Thomas, He COMMENDED Thomas for finally coming to believe He was who He said He was (both "Lord" and "God") Jesus affirmed Thomas, not corrected Him.
No created being could ever allow such words to be addressed to him personally. No angel, no prophet, no sane human being could ever allow himself to be addressed as both Lord and God. Yet Jesus not only accepts the words of Thomas but pronounces the blessings of faith upon them as well. For Thomas wasn't just calling Jesus "a god." He was calling Jesus "His Lord" and "His God." And again, if Jesus was not God almighty in the same sense the Father is, He surely would have said something like, "No-I am just a lesser god. Jehovah is the only true God. You must not put me in Jehovahs place. Only Jehovah can be called my Lord and my God." But Jesus said Nothing. Instead, as I said, He Commended Thomas for recognizing His True Identity.
Thirdly, why do you out your faith in an organization that predicted Jesus would come back in 1874, which was false, then claimed that the coming of Old Testament saints to earth would be in 1925, and was false, and that human history would end in 1975 and was false. Does any Prophet of God get any prediction wrong even once in the bible? Not one. The Watchtower many times. Why put your trust in them?
Finally Jesus as Michael the arc angel...

 

[Nada]

The Watchtower Society mistranslates the word of God many times as well as having beliefs contrary to scripture like Jesus being the archangel Michael and that only 144,000 anointed will go to heaven. They also falsely believe that trinity means three gods which it does not. See my above post for more detail if you wish.

How is it they believe in 3 gods? From what I have observed,they only believe in 1 God.Jehovah God.The JW's do not believe in any Trinity at all.They call it a false doctrine.Do some thorough research first.

Ps.You are correct though about them believing what the holy scriptures says about Michael and the 144,000.

 

[Desert Snake]

Ergo, all the heroes in the OT, were deluded. Correct?

Ciao

- viole

Lol I have a thread addressing this very subject. I thought you don't believe in this stuff? Any answer therefore that I might give is then defacto incorrect, so, I would just suggest asking in a DIR.

 

[Wharton]

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

How is it they believe in 3 gods? From what I have observed,they only believe in 1 God.Jehovah God.The JW's do not believe in any Trinity at all.They call it a false doctrine.Do some thorough research first.

Ps.You are correct though about them believing what the holy scriptures says about Michael and the 144,000.

NWT:In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Mini-Me???

 

[JFish123]

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

NWT:In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Mini-Me???

Correct translation is just God not a god

 

[Wharton]

Correct translation is just God not a god

For Christians, yes. For JW's, no. That's why they needed to write their own NWT of the bible and change it to "a god" AKA the Word was a mini-me.

 

[Nada]

Correct translation is just God not a god

There is a distinction between the word "God" used in that passage the first and second time.This is well known to scholars.The NT was written in Koine Greek.When it says,"and the Word was with God and God was the Word ," it is really saying and the Word was with God(the Almighty) and God(Jesus) was the Word.This can be confirmed by studying the true meanings of the use of those words in the passage.The first God used in this passage is Theon.The second God used is Theos.Theon represents God the Almighty.Theos represents a divine being but not the one and only God.

John 1 Interlinear Bible

'"Many Greek scholars and Bible translators acknowledge that John 1:1 highlights, not the identity, but a quality of “the Word.” Says Bible translator William Barclay: “Because [the apostle John] has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description . . . John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God.” Scholar Jason David BeDuhn likewise says: “In Greek, if you leave off the article from theos in a sentence like the one in John 1:1c, then your readers will assume you mean ‘a god.’ . . . Its absence makes theos quite different than the definite ho theos, as different as ‘a god’ is from ‘God’ in English.” BeDuhn adds: “In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being.”


“In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being.” Or to put it in the words of Joseph Henry Thayer, a scholar who worked on the American Standard Version: “The Logos [or, Word] was divine, not the divine Being himself.”
Is Jesus God? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY


Many know from studying that Jesus and God are two different beings.Jesus makes this very clear.

• 
  John 17:3 This means everlasting life,their coming to know you,the only true God and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ

So here we have Jesus stating that everlasting life comes by one coming to know the only true God, who sent Jesus Christ.This is Jesus' message to the world.It is clear as day.Jesus never said to come to know him or worship him.Jesus is saying to worship God and come to know Him.Jesus is a messenger and sacrifice.Not God the Almighty.Clearly there is a distinction.


Another thing to also consider is the fact that the holy spirit is never mentioned in John 1:1.
It mentions two,not three beings.Many will try to use John 1:1 to prove a Trinity.

 

[Wharton]

So here we have Jesus stating that everlasting life comes by one coming to know the only true God, who sent Jesus Christ.This is Jesus' message to the world.It is clear as day.Jesus never said to come to know him or worship him.Jesus is saying to worship God and come to know Him.Jesus is a messenger and sacrifice.Not God the Almighty.Clearly there is a distinction.

Yet the original incorporation Charter of the JW's stated their purpose included worshipping Jesus. Go figure. What changed in original scripture to allow your present theology on Jesus?

 

[Nada]

Yet the original incorporation Charter of the JW's stated their purpose included worshipping Jesus. Go figure. What changed in original scripture to allow your present theology on Jesus?

Don't forget they also used crosses and even celebrated X-mas too.Yes,they corrected many mistakes.

 

[JFish123]

There is a distinction between the word "God" used in that passage the first and second time.This is well known to scholars.The NT was written in Koine Greek.When it says,"and the Word was with God and God was the Word ," it is really saying and the Word was with God(the Almighty) and God(Jesus) was the Word.This can be confirmed by studying the true meanings of the use of those words in the passage.The first God used in this passage is Theon.The second God used is Theos.Theon represents God the Almighty.Theos represents a divine being but not the one and only God.

John 1 Interlinear Bible

'"Many Greek scholars and Bible translators acknowledge that John 1:1 highlights, not the identity, but a quality of “the Word.” Says Bible translator William Barclay: “Because [the apostle John] has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description . . . John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God.” Scholar Jason David BeDuhn likewise says: “In Greek, if you leave off the article from theos in a sentence like the one in John 1:1c, then your readers will assume you mean ‘a god.’ . . . Its absence makes theos quite different than the definite ho theos, as different as ‘a god’ is from ‘God’ in English.” BeDuhn adds: “In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being.”


“In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being.” Or to put it in the words of Joseph Henry Thayer, a scholar who worked on the American Standard Version: “The Logos [or, Word] was divine, not the divine Being himself.”
Is Jesus God? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY


Many know from studying that Jesus and God are two different beings.Jesus makes this very clear.

• 
  John 17:3 This means everlasting life,their coming to know you,the only true God and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ

So here we have Jesus stating that everlasting life comes by one coming to know the only true God, who sent Jesus Christ.This is Jesus' message to the world.It is clear as day.Jesus never said to come to know him or worship him.Jesus is saying to worship God and come to know Him.Jesus is a messenger and sacrifice.Not God the Almighty.Clearly there is a distinction.


Another thing to also consider is the fact that the holy spirit is never mentioned in John 1:1.
It mentions two,not three beings.Many will try to use John 1:1 to prove a Trinity.

First one verse does not mean the trinity is not real or biblical as it can be found throughout scripture as I've proven in my other post quoting dozens of scripture in context. But as for John 1:1...
So the Watchtower argues that since the second occurrence of theos ("God") in John 1:1 has no definite article ("the") it this refers to a lesser deity who simply has godlike qualities. But must theos ("God") without the ho ("the") refer to someone less than Jehovah? By no means!
The Greek word 'Theos' without the definite article 'ho' is used of Jehovah Himself in the New Testament with the exact same Greek construction used in John 1:1. Indeed, the "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" used in most Seminaries states the truth, that the word theos is used "quite predominantly of the True God, sometimes with, sometimes without the article." An example of this is in Luke 20:38, where we read of Jehovah, "He is A GOD, not of the dead, but of the living.
Secondly, everyone has observed how inconsistent the Watchtower Society translates occurrence is theos ("God") without the article. It's been noted that there are 282 such occurrences in the New Testament. At 16 places the NWT has (similar to its translation of John 1:1) either a god, god, gods, or godly.
16 out of 282 means that the NWT translators were faithful to their translation principle only 6% of the time. In other words, in the great majority of occurrences of theos without the article in the New Testament, the Watchtower did NOT translate it as "a god." Their choice to translate John 1:1 this way shows their extreme theological bias against the absolute deity of Christ shown throughout the Bible.
Did you know that if the Watchtower was consistent in translating other verses like they did in John 1:1, we'd have some very strange sounding verses? For example:
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of A GOD." (Matthew 5:9)
"There came a man who was sent from A GOD whose name was A JOHN." (JOHN 1:6)
What does it say to you that the Watchtower translates the above verses correctly, but then sticks an indefinite article in John 1:1 in reference to Christ: "a god"? Are you sure you want to trust in the New World Translation?
Did you know that the overwhelming majority of credible Greek scholars in the world say the Watchtower Society is absolutely wrong and even deceptive in its translation including in John 1:1?
And finally, since the Watchtower Society claims that the phrase 'ho theos' ("the God") is not used of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, while in Fact, John 20:28, Matthew 1:23, and Hebrews 1:8 DO USE this phrase of Jesus Christ, doesn't this mean the Watchtower Society is a False Prophet (including all the false prophecies they made that didn't come true)?

 

[Nada]

First one verse does not mean the trinity is not real or biblical as it can be found throughout scripture as I've proven in my other post quoting dozens of scripture in context. But as for John 1:1...
So the Watchtower argues that since the second occurrence of theos ("God") in John 1:1 has no definite article ("the") it this refers to a lesser deity who simply has godlike qualities. But must theos ("God") without the ho ("the") refer to someone less than Jehovah? By no means!
The Greek word 'Theos' without the definite article 'ho' is used of Jehovah Himself in the New Testament with the exact same Greek construction used in John 1:1. Indeed, the "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" used in most Seminaries states the truth, that the word theos is used "quite predominantly of the True God, sometimes with, sometimes without the article." An example of this is in Luke 20:38, where we read of Jehovah, "He is A GOD, not of the dead, but of the living.
Secondly, everyone has observed how inconsistent the Watchtower Society translates occurrence is theos ("God") without the article. It's been noted that there are 282 such occurrences in the New Testament. At 16 places the NWT has (similar to its translation of John 1:1) either a god, god, gods, or godly.
16 out of 282 means that the NWT translators were faithful to their translation principle only 6% of the time. In other words, in the great majority of occurrences of theos without the article in the New Testament, the Watchtower did NOT translate it as "a god." Their choice to translate John 1:1 this way shows their extreme theological bias against the absolute deity of Christ shown throughout the Bible.
Did you know that if the Watchtower was consistent in translating other verses like they did in John 1:1, we'd have some very strange sounding verses? For example:
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of A GOD." (Matthew 5:9)
"There came a man who was sent from A GOD whose name was A JOHN." (JOHN 1:6)
What does it say to you that the Watchtower translates the above verses correctly, but then sticks an indefinite article in John 1:1 in reference to Christ: "a god"? Are you sure you want to trust in the New World Translation?
Did you know that the overwhelming majority of credible Greek scholars in the world say the Watchtower Society is absolutely wrong and even deceptive in its translation including in John 1:1?
And finally, since the Watchtower Society claims that the phrase 'ho theos' ("the God") is not used of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, while in Fact, John 20:28, Matthew 1:23, and Hebrews 1:8 DO USE this phrase of Jesus Christ, doesn't this mean the Watchtower Society is a False Prophet (including all the false prophecies they made that didn't come true)?

It is interesting that you mention the Watchtower society yet many others state the same.It is obvious you have a soft spot for the WTS.Also,the Trinity cannot be proven biblically, for it is a false doctrine.It is obvious.Jesus does not speak of a union of three.Never.He always says he and the father are one.This is a spiritual union,not a literal one.The holy spirit is never mentioned in these passages where Jesus says he and the father are one.

John 10:29,30…29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30" I and the Father are one."

No mention of a third party.

Here Jesus speaks of all being in each other.This includes God the Almighty,Jesus and the followers.Are we to understand then that all of them are literally in each other? Of course not.It is a spiritual union.If we are to believe it literally means they are in each other,then that means all the people are therefore part of the Trinity.We know this is not true at all.Lets us READ.

John 17:21 "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

Again,no mention at all of the holy spirit.It only mentions God the Almighty,Jesus and the followers.


John 10:37,38. 37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

This is again speaking of a spiritual union.Not a literal one.Jesus does not mean that they are one literally.Jesus is saying that God the Almighty is the one giving Jesus this power to perform these acts so man may believe that God sent Jesus Christ.

Again the holy spirit is never mentioned in this union.

Here is another.

John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

Here again we find Jesus stating that he and the Father are one.No mention again of any third party.No holy spirit.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

NO HOLY SPIRT MENTIONED.

John 12:49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

Jesus clearly states that he is commanded by the Father.So here we have a chain of command.This means authority over another.God the Almighty is obviously in charge.Jesus is His Son.Notice again no mention of the holy spirit.God the Almighty is commanded by NO ONE.Jesus is commanded.Therefore,he is not God the Almighty or literally part of Him.There is only one God,and Jesus is not He.


Bible Hub

 

[JFish123]

It is interesting that you mention the Watchtower society yet many others state the same.It is obvious you have a soft spot for the WTS.Also,the Trinity cannot be proven biblically, for it is a false doctrine.It is obvious.Jesus does not speak of a union of three.Never.He always says he and the father are one.This is a spiritual union,not a literal one.The holy spirit is never mentioned in these passages where Jesus says he and the father are one.

John 10:29,30…29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30" I and the Father are one."

No mention of a third party.

Here Jesus speaks of all being in each other.This includes God the Almighty,Jesus and the followers.Are we to understand then that all of them are literally in each other? Of course not.It is a spiritual union.If we are to believe it literally means they are in each other,then that means all the people are therefore part of the Trinity.We know this is not true at all.Lets us READ.

John 17:21 "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

Again,no mention at all of the holy spirit.It only mentions God the Almighty,Jesus and the followers.


John 10:37,38. 37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

This is again speaking of a spiritual union.Not a literal one.Jesus does not mean that they are one literally.Jesus is saying that God the Almighty is the one giving Jesus this power to perform these acts so man may believe that God sent Jesus Christ.

Again the holy spirit is never mentioned in this union.

Here is another.

John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

Here again we find Jesus stating that he and the Father are one.No mention again of any third party.No holy spirit.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

NO HOLY SPIRT MENTIONED.

John 12:49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

Jesus clearly states that he is commanded by the Father.So here we have a chain of command.This means authority over another.God the Almighty is obviously in charge.Jesus is His Son.Notice again no mention of the holy spirit.God the Almighty is commanded by NO ONE.Jesus is commanded.Therefore,he is not God the Almighty or literally part of Him.There is only one God,and Jesus is not He.


Bible Hub

First, The Holy Spirit is a person. It is recognized that the three primary attributes of personality are mind, emotions, and will. A "force" does not have these attributes. However the Holy Soirit does.
The Holy Spirit has a Mind:
This is made clear in a number of passages. For example, the Holy Spirits intellect is seen in 1 Corinthians 2:10, where we are told that "the Spirit searches everything" (compare with Isaiah 11:2, Ephesians 1:17). The Greek word for "searches" means to thoroughly investigate a matter. The Holy Spirit investigates the things of God and makes these matters known to believers. Note that Jesus once told a group of Jews, "you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life." (John 5:39) The Lord used the same Greek word there that is used in 1 Corinthians 2:10. We are also told in 1 Corinthians 2:11 that the Holy Spirit KNOWS the thoughts of God. How can the Spirit know the things of God if it doesn't have a mind? A Force does not know things. Thought processes require the presence of a mind.
The Holy Spirit has Emotions:
Like before, it is clear in a number of verses but for example, in Ephesians 4:30 we are admonished, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of a God." Grief is an emotion, and emotions cannot be experienced by a force. Grief is something one feels. To illustrate my point, it is noteworthy that the Corinthian believers experienced SORROW after the Apostle Paul wrote them a stern letter (2 Corinthians 2:2,5). There we see the same Greek word that is used in Ephesians 4:30 (translated as grieve). Just as the Corinthian believers experienced sorrow and grief, so the person of the Holy Spirit can experience sorrow and grief.
The Holy Spirit has a Will:
We are told in 1 Corinthians 12:11 that the Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gifts "to each one individually AS HE WILLS. The phrase "He Wills" translates from the Greek word bouletai, which refers to "decisions of the will after previous deliberation." The Holy Spirit makes a Sovereign choice regarding what spiritual gifts each respective Christian receives. It is also noteworthy that the same Greek word used to describe the Holy Spirits will is used to describe Jehovah Gods will in James 1:18. The last key example is found in Acts 16:6 where the Holy Spirit forbids Paul to preach in Asia and them redirects him to minister in Europe.
Also, if that's not enough, the Holy Spirit confirms His personality as He:
Teaching believers (John 14:26)
Testifies about Christ (John 15:26)
Guides believers (Romans 8:14)
Commissions people (Acts 13:4)
Issues commands (Acts 8:29)
He restrains sin (Genesis 6:3)
Intercedes or prays (Romans 8:26)
He speaks to people (John 15:26, and 2 Peter 1:21)
So how do you reconcile what the Watchtower says that the Holy Spirit is just a force when the Word of God says the Spirit can do things that only a person can do such as pray for believers, speak to people, issue commands, bear witness, and teach people?
And (won't go into detail as long enough post already) the Holy Spirit is treated as a person as He can...
Be grieved (Ephesians 4:30)
Can be blasphemed (Matthew 12:32)
-quick study shows that the Father and Son can Also be blasphemed just like the Holy Spirit.
Can be lied to (Acts 5:3)
Can be obeyed (Acts 13;2)
Is sent (John 14:26)
Finally here's a brief conversation with a JW:
Christian: do you believe Satan is a spiritual person?
JW: Yes.
Christian: I you believe satan is a person because he has the qualifying attributes of a person?
JW: I suppose do but what do you mean?
Christian: would you agree that in order to qualify as a person, one must be able to think, act, communicate and have a will?
JW: Yes, satan can do all those things.
Christian: then why don't you believe the Holy Spirit is a person as the Bible teaches He has all the attributes of a person?

 

[Wharton]

Don't forget they also used crosses and even celebrated X-mas too.Yes,they corrected many mistakes.

Yes, it seems the force (holy spirit) was not with them or it was yanking their chain.

btw, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. He doesn't make mistakes. So what spirit is guiding their ever changing interpretation of scripture?

 

[Nada]

First, The Holy Spirit is a person. It is recognized that the three primary attributes of personality are mind, emotions, and will. A "force" does not have these attributes. However the Holy Soirit does.
The Holy Spirit has a Mind:
This is made clear in a number of passages. For example, the Holy Spirits intellect is seen in 1 Corinthians 2:10, where we are told that "the Spirit searches everything" (compare with Isaiah 11:2, Ephesians 1:17). The Greek word for "searches" means to thoroughly investigate a matter. The Holy Spirit investigates the things of God and makes these matters known to believers. Note that Jesus once told a group of Jews, "you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life." (John 5:39) The Lord used the same Greek word there that is used in 1 Corinthians 2:10. We are also told in 1 Corinthians 2:11 that the Holy Spirit KNOWS the thoughts of God. How can the Spirit know the things of God if it doesn't have a mind? A Force does not know things. Thought processes require the presence of a mind.
The Holy Spirit has Emotions:
Like before, it is clear in a number of verses but for example, in Ephesians 4:30 we are admonished, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of a God." Grief is an emotion, and emotions cannot be experienced by a force. Grief is something one feels. To illustrate my point, it is noteworthy that the Corinthian believers experienced SORROW after the Apostle Paul wrote them a stern letter (2 Corinthians 2:2,5). There we see the same Greek word that is used in Ephesians 4:30 (translated as grieve). Just as the Corinthian believers experienced sorrow and grief, so the person of the Holy Spirit can experience sorrow and grief.
The Holy Spirit has a Will:
We are told in 1 Corinthians 12:11 that the Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gifts "to each one individually AS HE WILLS. The phrase "He Wills" translates from the Greek word bouletai, which refers to "decisions of the will after previous deliberation." The Holy Spirit makes a Sovereign choice regarding what spiritual gifts each respective Christian receives. It is also noteworthy that the same Greek word used to describe the Holy Spirits will is used to describe Jehovah Gods will in James 1:18. The last key example is found in Acts 16:6 where the Holy Spirit forbids Paul to preach in Asia and them redirects him to minister in Europe.
Also, if that's not enough, the Holy Spirit confirms His personality as He:
Teaching believers (John 14:26)
Testifies about Christ (John 15:26)
Guides believers (Romans 8:14)
Commissions people (Acts 13:4)
Issues commands (Acts 8:29)
He restrains sin (Genesis 6:3)
Intercedes or prays (Romans 8:26)
He speaks to people (John 15:26, and 2 Peter 1:21)
So how do you reconcile what the Watchtower says that the Holy Spirit is just a force when the Word of God says the Spirit can do things that only a person can do such as pray for believers, speak to people, issue commands, bear witness, and teach people?
And (won't go into detail as long enough post already) the Holy Spirit is treated as a person as He can...
Be grieved (Ephesians 4:30)
Can be blasphemed (Matthew 12:32)
-quick study shows that the Father and Son can Also be blasphemed just like the Holy Spirit.
Can be lied to (Acts 5:3)
Can be obeyed (Acts 13;2)
Is sent (John 14:26)
Finally here's a brief conversation with a JW:
Christian: do you believe Satan is a spiritual person?
JW: Yes.
Christian: I you believe satan is a person because he has the qualifying attributes of a person?
JW: I suppose do but what do you mean?
Christian: would you agree that in order to qualify as a person, one must be able to think, act, communicate and have a will?
JW: Yes, satan can do all those things.
Christian: then why don't you believe the Holy Spirit is a person as the Bible teaches He has all the attributes of a person?

Lol...Organized confusion.Lol....

 

[Nada]

Yes, it seems the force (holy spirit) was not with them or it was yanking their chain.

btw, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. He doesn't make mistakes. So what spirit is guiding their ever changing interpretation of scripture?

ok................................

 

[JFish123]

Lol...Organized confusion.Lol....

I'm terribly sorry but if you can only "lol" all the scripture from Gods word explaining it's truth that's completely contrary to "Watchtower" teaching, then I think I made the point. I really do hope you look into these matters further. Not for me but for your own souls sake.
Here is a bit more scriptural truth as well...
The New World Translation states multiple times that Jesus is YHWY or Jehovah. You can see for yourself if you have a minute.
Psalms 102:25-27 (NWT)
"Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth, And the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will remain; Just like a garment they will all wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will pass away. But you are the same, and your years will never end."
Now, who is this scripture about? Jehovah right? It's saying Jehovahs immutable, unchangeable, the creator of All things. It couldn't be anyone else. Only Jehovah created All things and doesn't change right? Ok, now if you can, turn to Hebrews 1:6 (NWT)
6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”
7 Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 BUT ABOUT THE SON, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.*
9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”
10 AND (Still speaking about the Son-Jesus): “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out,
12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”
And in the New World Translation there should be a little footnote that's says Psalm 102.
Psalm 102 is clearly about Jehovah. So why does the writer of Hebrews so plainly apply them to Jesus.
Also, Let us look at the gospel of John chapter 12 in the New World Translation. Here at the end of chapter 12, is is towards the end of Jesus' public ministry. And this is before the private ministry to the disciples. And verse 39...
39 The reason why they were not able to believe is that again Isaiah said:
40 “He has blinded their eyes and has made their hearts hard, so that they would not see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn around and I heal them.”
41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.
Now I'm sure you've read that before, but have you ever stopped and asked yourself the question.
"...these things because he saw his glory." In the context, it's only Jesus. So when did Isaiah see Jesus' glory? Well, we just had a quotation so where's the citation from? From Isaiah chapter 6. You know Isaiah chapter 6 I'm sure. It's about the prophets vision of Jehovah sitting upon His throne...
6 In the year that King Uz·zi′ah died, I saw Jehovah sitting on a lofty and elevated throne, and the skirts of his robe filled the temple.
2 Seraphs were standing above him; each had six wings. Each covered his face with two and covered his feet with two, and each of them would fly about with two.
3 And one called to the other:
“Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies.The whole earth is filled with his glory.”
4 And the pivots of the thresholds quivered at the sound of the shouting, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then I said: “Woe to me!
I am as good as dead,
For I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of armies himself!”
The quotation from Isaiah 6 is from verse 10...
10 Make the heart of this people unreceptive, Make their ears unresponsive,And paste their eyes together,So that they may not see with their eyes and hear with their ears,So that their heart may not understand and they may not turn back and be healed.”
So do you see what John is saying in John chapter 12? When he said, Isaiah said these things because he saw His glory and spoke of Him.
If you asked Isaiah... "Isaiah? Who did you see in Isaiah chapter 6?" Isaiah's response would have been, YHWY. YHWY was sitting upon His throne lofty and lifted up.
But if you asked John, "Who did Isaiah see?" Johns answer, is Jesus. The one sitting upon the throne, is Jesus.

 

[Wharton]

ok................................

Only with the JW's does the 'truth' get truth-ier. What were the words of Jesus- "like a foolish man who built his house on sand." Your 'truth' is built on sand, ever changing, the blind leading the blind.

 

[Nada]

I'm terribly sorry but if you can only "lol" all the scripture from Gods word explaining it's truth that's completely contrary to "Watchtower" teaching, then I think I made the point. I really do hope you look into these matters further. Not for me but for your own souls sake.
Here is a bit more scriptural truth as well...
The New World Translation states multiple times that Jesus is YHWY or Jehovah. You can see for yourself if you have a minute.
Psalms 102:25-27 (NWT)
"Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth, And the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will remain; Just like a garment they will all wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will pass away. But you are the same, and your years will never end."
Now, who is this scripture about? Jehovah right? It's saying Jehovahs immutable, unchangeable, the creator of All things. It couldn't be anyone else. Only Jehovah created All things and doesn't change right? Ok, now if you can, turn to Hebrews 1:6 (NWT)
6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”
7 Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 BUT ABOUT THE SON, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.*
9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”
10 AND (Still speaking about the Son-Jesus): “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out,
12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”
And in the New World Translation there should be a little footnote that's says Psalm 102.
Psalm 102 is clearly about Jehovah. So why does the writer of Hebrews so plainly apply them to Jesus.
Also, Let us look at the gospel of John chapter 12 in the New World Translation. Here at the end of chapter 12, is is towards the end of Jesus' public ministry. And this is before the private ministry to the disciples. And verse 39...
39 The reason why they were not able to believe is that again Isaiah said:
40 “He has blinded their eyes and has made their hearts hard, so that they would not see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn around and I heal them.”
41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.
Now I'm sure you've read that before, but have you ever stopped and asked yourself the question.
"...these things because he saw his glory." In the context, it's only Jesus. So when did Isaiah see Jesus' glory? Well, we just had a quotation so where's the citation from? From Isaiah chapter 6. You know Isaiah chapter 6 I'm sure. It's about the prophets vision of Jehovah sitting upon His throne...
6 In the year that King Uz·zi′ah died, I saw Jehovah sitting on a lofty and elevated throne, and the skirts of his robe filled the temple.
2 Seraphs were standing above him; each had six wings. Each covered his face with two and covered his feet with two, and each of them would fly about with two.
3 And one called to the other:
“Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies.The whole earth is filled with his glory.”
4 And the pivots of the thresholds quivered at the sound of the shouting, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then I said: “Woe to me!
I am as good as dead,
For I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of armies himself!”
The quotation from Isaiah 6 is from verse 10...
10 Make the heart of this people unreceptive, Make their ears unresponsive,And paste their eyes together,So that they may not see with their eyes and hear with their ears,So that their heart may not understand and they may not turn back and be healed.”
So do you see what John is saying in John chapter 12? When he said, Isaiah said these things because he saw His glory and spoke of Him.
If you asked Isaiah... "Isaiah? Who did you see in Isaiah chapter 6?" Isaiah's response would have been, YHWY. YHWY was sitting upon His throne lofty and lifted up.
But if you asked John, "Who did Isaiah see?" Johns answer, is Jesus. The one sitting upon the throne, is Jesus.

I wasn't laughing at you.I was like wow when I saw the wave of info.It's all bunched up.