Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[djhwoodwerks]

I believe when one spouts JW thoeolgy it seems like a logical deduction. Perhaps you can explain why you talk like one but aren't one and what are you then. I believe you can't possibly be a born again Christian unless you are playing the devils advoacte.

I believe he is a JW in training, he just hasn't been baptized yet.

 

[Nada]

Mark 4:11-12 (ESVST) , but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that "they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven."

Keep trying.

 

[JFish123]

Is there a Trinity? Find out in 4 minutes...

 

[Katzpur]

Is there a Trinity? Find out in 4 minutes...

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out if this guy was really serious or if this was just a big joke. What an offensive person! What is it about some people that makes them incapable of just expressing their own beliefs without demeaning people who believe differently? How is that in any way, shape or form something they think God would approve of?

And do you really believe that the Father and the Son are the same person? That the Father was His own Son and that the Son was His own Father? That the Father sent himself to earth? That the Son prayed to himself? That He asked himself to forgive His killers? That He forsook himself? That He commended himself into his own hands? That He was greater than himself? Honestly, I have a hard time imagine how anyone could believe these things.

 

[JFish123]

 

[JFish123]

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out if this guy was really serious or if this was just a big joke. What an offensive person! What is it about some people that makes them incapable of just expressing their own beliefs without demeaning people who believe differently? How is that in any way, shape or form something they think God would approve of?

How was he demeaning? He was trying to show people the error in their beliefs about Jesus to SAVE them. Would not God approve of helping people in error find TRUTH? I'd think so right?

 

[Katzpur]

How was he demeaning? He was trying to show people the error in their beliefs about Jesus to SAVE them. Would not God approve of helping people in error find TRUTH? I'd think so right?

Well, for starters, maybe he's the one whose beliefs are in error! I know you can't even conceive of that, but you need to consider the possibility. When somebody tells me I'm not worshipping "the real Jesus," of course I find it demeaning. You'd find it demeaning if I said that about you, wouldn't you? And body language and tone of voice! They were so condescending and patronizing. It's another thing to tell people what you believe to be true. He went way, way beyond that. If I wanted to help you find the TRUTH, I wouldn't start out by insulting you. And I wouldn't imply that you're going to be damned for an error in understanding the scriptures. What kind of God do you worship anyway? Is He really as petty and vicious as you make Him sound?

 

[JFish123]

Well, for starters, maybe he's the one whose beliefs are in error! I know you can't even conceive of that, but you need to consider the possibility. When somebody tells me I'm not worshipping "the real Jesus," of course I find it demeaning. You'd find it demeaning if I said that about you, wouldn't you? And body language and tone of voice! They were so condescending and patronizing. It's another thing to tell people what you believe to be true. He went way, way beyond that. If I wanted to help you find the TRUTH, I wouldn't start out by insulting you. And I wouldn't imply that you're going to be damned for an error in understanding the scriptures. What kind of God do you worship anyway? Is He really as petty and vicious as you make Him sound?

If you told me I was in error, I'd listen to see if your views line up with the bible and have a discussion
And though Todd Freils demeanor may seem like he's demeaning you, it's not like he's trying to. I know people who talk like that but don't think there better. It's just how they talk etc... I've been known to do that but I don't think I'm superior in any way to anyone else also, it's what he said that's important, not how he seems to act and what he said are true.

 

[Katzpur]

If you told me I was in error, I'd listen to see if your views line up with the bible and have a discussion

We'll have to do that then. But let me ask you just one thing... I think we'd both agree that God wants us to have as accurate an understanding of Him as we possibly can (given our inability to fully do so). But do you really believe He is going to eternally condemn sincere people who love Him and who look to Jesus Christ for salvation just because some of their beliefs about His nature are maybe not 100% right on the money?

 

[JFish123]

We'll have to do that then. But let me ask you just one thing... I think we'd both agree that God wants us to have as accurate an understanding of Him as we possibly can (given our inability to fully do so). But do you really believe He is going to eternally condemn sincere people who love Him and who look to Jesus Christ for salvation just because some of their beliefs about His nature are maybe not 100% right on the money?

I believe, and I could be wrong of course, that God is the final judge and He knows who is going to heaven or not. So when we stand before pure Holiness, we will have no excuses. Jesus said He is the Only way to God, to Heaven. Getting late (1:30am) but will catch up tomorrow

 

[Muffled]

I would explain but I have had encounters with you in the past and they were not pleasant.

You should be thankful. Anyone can find a multitude of people who will flatter him but how many are there who will ask you to give a good account of yourself. Do you have something to hide?

 

[Muffled]

I believe, and I could be wrong of course, that God is the final judge and He knows who is going to heaven or not. So when we stand before pure Holiness, we will have no excuses. Jesus said He is the Only way to God, to Heaven. Getting late (1:30am) but will catch up tomorrow

I believe this is an incorrect interpretation of what He said. He said "I am the way" not in answer to how to get to God but in answer to how to get to where Jesus is going.

I believe there is no evidence that Jesus was going to Heaven.

 

[JFish123]

The pagans believed in a Triad of gods. They were polytheists. That means they believed in three main gods (Triad) who were completely separate beings. And they ruled over the rest of the gods.
The Trinity is 1 God with three persons-The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that are equal in essence and nature as One God. And they rule over No other gods as there's only one God. Unlike JW where there are at least two (The God and a god) so the Trinity has less gods then The Watchtower. We have One-The Trinity. And the Bible clearly states in the Trinity, so it's not from "outside pagan religions."
For example, Peter refers to the saints who have been chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God The Father." (1 Peter 1:2) when Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, the disciple worshipfully responded by addressing Him, "My Lord and MY GOD." (John 20:28) The Father also said of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever." In Acts 5:3-4, we are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God. Peter said,"Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit,,, You have not lied to men but to God."
Besides being called God, each of the three persons are seen on different occasions to possess the attributes of deity. Note the following examples:
All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence:
The Father (1 Kings 8:27)
The Son (Matthew 28:20)
The Holy Spirit (psalm 139:7)
All three have the attribute of omniscience:
The Father (psalm 147:5)
The Son (John 16:30)
The Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10)
All three have the attribute of omnipotence:
The Father (Psalm 135:6)
The Son (Matthew 28:18)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 15:19)
Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Revelation 15:4)
The Son (Acts 3:14)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 1:4)
Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Psalm 90:2)
The Son (Micah 5:2, John 1:4)
The Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14)
Each if the three persons is described as the Truth:
The Father (John 7:28)
The Son (Revelation 3:7)
The Holy Spirit (1 John 5:6)
Each of the three is called Lord (Luke 2:11, Romans 10:12, 2 Corinthians 3:17) each is called Everlasting (Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 22:13) each is called Almighty (Genesis 17:1, Romans 15:19, Revelation 1:8) and each is called Powerful (Jeremiah 32:17, Zechariah 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
Can any one other than God have the Attributes of God?
In addition to having the attributes of deity, each of the three persons were involved in doing the works of deity. For example, all three were involved in the creation of the world:
The Father (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 102:25, 1 Corinthians 8:6)
The Son (John 1:3, Colossians 1;16, Hebrews 1:2)
The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:30)
They were also involved in the incarnation and resurrection but I won't go into those verses as I think these are good for now.
Also to mention, that the pagans taught the concept of a flood that killed most of humankind and the concept of a messiah like figure named Tammuz who was allegedly resurrected. Are those concepts false just because pagans taught remotely similar accounts?
And if you still don't understand the Trinity, does it mean it's not True? I mean do you think it is possible for human beings to know everything about God? If yes, please explain Isaiah 55:8-9, Romans 11:33, and 1 Corinthians 13:12.
We should not reject a doctrine simply because we cannot fully comprehend it. Especially since it's in the Bible

 

[Yoshua]

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out if this guy was really serious or if this was just a big joke. What an offensive person! What is it about some people that makes them incapable of just expressing their own beliefs without demeaning people who believe differently? How is that in any way, shape or form something they think God would approve of?

And do you really believe that the Father and the Son are the same person? That the Father was His own Son and that the Son was His own Father? That the Father sent himself to earth? That the Son prayed to himself? That He asked himself to forgive His killers? That He forsook himself? That He commended himself into his own hands? That He was greater than himself? Honestly, I have a hard time imagine how anyone could believe these things.

The Father and the Son are not one person. They are same in essence or nature, God. The Father has a Son, Jesus Christ. He sent His Son to save us from our sins and be with Him in eternity (eternal life), not Himself (the Father God). The Son not prayed to Himself, He prayed to the Father as another person. That is the reason why Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, and not seated inside the Father.

"The Father was greater" mentioned in the Bible is the result of incarnation of Jesus Christ, to be in the form of human, and did not consider to be equal with God (Father).
Naturally and practically, Jesus who sent by the Father must show to people that He prayed, and pointed to the Father. They are one and consistent with the Father in fulfilling the prophecy of giving salvation. He cannot declare that He (Jesus) is greater than the Father, because Jesus is in the form of flesh; this is the reason why the Jews was furious when Jesus confessed that "Before Abraham, I am." Because Jesus showed His deity, being God.

Phil. 2:6-10
6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Thanks

 

[Katzpur]

The Father and the Son are not one person. They are same in essence or nature, God. The Father has a Son, Jesus Christ. He sent His Son to save us from our sins and be with Him in eternity (eternal life), not Himself (the Father God). The Son not prayed to Himself, He prayed to the Father as another person. That is the reason why Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, and not seated inside the Father.

"The Father was greater" mentioned in the Bible is the result of incarnation of Jesus Christ, to be in the form of human, and did not consider to be equal with God (Father).
Naturally and practically, Jesus who sent by the Father must show to people that He prayed, and pointed to the Father. They are one and consistent with the Father in fulfilling the prophecy of giving salvation. He cannot declare that He (Jesus) is greater than the Father, because Jesus is in the form of flesh; this is the reason why the Jews was furious when Jesus confessed that "Before Abraham, I am." Because Jesus showed His deity, being God.

Phil. 2:6-10
6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Thanks

I basically agree with everything you have said here. The only thing I disagree with is that I believe that the Son still occupies a subordinate position to His Father. In other words, if you were to ask Him, I believe He would still say, "My Father is greater than I." I don't see that as meaning that the Son is inferior to the Father in terms of His godly attributes and qualities. In those those they are identical. But the Son still acknowledges the Father as His God.

 

[JFish123]

Here is the trinity explained...

 

[psychoslice]

its hard to explain something like the trinity, because its a metaphor, its like the layers of the ocean, or the atmosphere, the ocean is really one, as also the atmosphere, we are the ones who divide it. The father, the son and the holy spirit are the same, there all one, as everything is one in unity, but when we put arm and legs and bodies to the so called trinity, we then cannot understand it at all. God is another name for the pure Essence of all that there is, or pure Consciousness, this is known as non-duality, but the dual mind cannot grasp it, and never will.

 

[JayJayDee]

But totally incorrect. It's juvenile theology.

It is totally incorrect only from your Catholic viewpoint. It is not totally incorrect from the Bible's viewpoint, as you can plainly see. Calling it juvenile just makes your own comments sound juvenile. Can you not simply debate the topic without the personal remarks calling a posters maturity into question? The theology is Biblically sound.

We believe that Christendom's teachings are the "weeds" of Jesus parable. Since they were sown not long after the establishment of Christianity, we only have to look back in history to see when they were planted. Do we see a deviation from the teachings of the Christ when Christendom was born? We certainly do!
Did Constantine introduce an apostate form of Christianity with a Pope as head of the church? Did this head not bear the title of "Pontifex Maximus" (a pagan Roman title)?.....and do people not call him "the Pontiff" to this day? Show me such a title in the Bible. The Catholic Church also introduced the trinity and the adoration of Mary....the Bible does not promote either. Hell and notions of fiery torment were also used to scare the socks people who were kept in ignorance of God's word for centuries.

All manner of torture was used to extract confessions of heresy, when the heretic was the only one telling the truth! Please refer back to your own church's roots before you attack someone else's beliefs. The Reformation broke the power of Roman Catholicism but far from uniting Christians, it just broke it up into more bickering fragments. This is not the Christianity Jesus started. It is the counterfeit.....the weeds.

Jesus will separate the "weeds" out from the "wheat" when he sends the reapers out to gather those who subscribe to the counterfeit Christianity that he said would grow as a result of the devil's efforts. I guess we will soon see who have been doing the will of the Father and who have not. (Matt 13:36-43)

Sheep and goats...wheat and weeds....they all mean the same thing. Some are on the road to life and some are in for complete rejection because Jesus has NEVER recognised the weeds as his own. (Matt 7:13, 14, 21-23)

 

[psychoslice]

I feel that JW's just haven't got any idea of the mystery of the trinity, they just cannot believe in it, because they are programmed to not believe in it, and nothing will ever shift them from that way of thinking, and hence, JW's.

 

[JayJayDee]

I feel that JW's just haven't got any idea of the mystery of the trinity, they just cannot believe in it, because they are programmed to not believe in it, and nothing will ever shift them from that way of thinking, and hence, JW's.

LOL That is a weird statement coming from someone who doesn't even believe in God.