Can someone explane something to me

[openmindedone]

It's not necassarily that your reaction was heartless and careless. It's all based on intentions. I see that your reaction is just a way of coping, but the intent is not to disrespect somewhat. You are probably caring, it's just something that your wife does not understand.

Your right in that respect oracle in that she doesnt understand at present but she will i guess when her time comes to go through what i am and i will be there for her as she is not that strong when it comes to these type of events. I am usually a caring, sensative, and respectfull to others type of person but that seems to be by the wayside at present thats all...

 

[Feathers in Hair]

sorry feathersinhair just seen your post.....

Is it that you believe in yourself - your own destiny and just do the right things through your own life till your heart stops. Does atheism mean you believe there is nothing after you die or that you just beleive there is no such thing as god? or all of the above...

Oh, dear, I'm sorry. I didn't make that very clear, and I apologize. I, myself, am actually a polytheist/ pagan, so I can't speak for the many kind atheists here. I just know a few people who have struggled with concepts about 'why does a caring god allow pain?' and haven't been able to find the answer, either through research or through their own heart. Some people simply shrug and deal with it, while others decide that there is no god, and find that that path leads to the answers they seek. (And some others who were atheists decide that they actually can go the opposite route, to believe in Something they didn't before.)

All I was trying to say was that if your heart is saying that there isn't Diety, or that they aren't caring, then you might wish to study atheism. I've never followed that path myself, so I should let them speak for what they believe.

On a side-note, though, welcome to the forums! It's always a pleasure to have another member that we can learn from!

 

[Master Vigil]

Sometimes people go through things that are strictly their own. Even if you try to explain it, they still don't understand. For instance, these past few months I have been going through something that completely rocked my life. It just turned everything upside down. My plans, my goals, my dreams were all gone. I didn't know how to react, so I just shut down. I hardly left my apartment, I stopped doing schoolwork, I stopped working, etc... I tried to explain it to people, but they don't understand. The key that helped me get through it, is that it is my experience. Since all things are tao, it is an experience of tao as well. And since suffering is natural, it's alright. You need to let the suffering run it's course though, don't bottle it up and push it deeper inside yourself. Then it will just grow and grow and eventually burst. I hope for your peace to be soon, and I wish you luck in all you do. May the spirits be with you.

 

[martha]

I didn't know your father
But I know you loved him so
If it's any consolation
He didn't really go
He's there whenever you recall
The things you did together
A walk, a talk, a game of ball
These memories last forever
I lost my dad some time ago
So I know just how you feel
Believe me friend
In Gods good time
Your broken heart will heal


Embrace your saddness, the numbness will fade, the tears will come, the healing will begin.

With love,
Martha

 

[oracle]

I've actually suffered a lot of things in life. What I've learned, is that the mind can be the greatest asset, the greatest tool to cope and overcome any obstacle in life, but it can also be the most destructive. Our emotions are reactions based on our perceptions, and we can percieve every situation both positively and negatively. We can even view death, pain, and suffering optimistically. How much more then, do we accomplish in life. It becomes easier on our souls to see the goodness and beauty in everything. Rather than seeing the thorns, take a look at the rose.
There is a beauty in death although it's hard to see, and it makes every moment, every breath we take, and every second we live more beautiful, because you only live each moment once. Cherish the memories you have, celebrate life and all the happiness you've shared with your loved ones, because happiness and love is what gives life meaning and purpose.

 

[groovydancer88]

First of all, welcome to the forums!

I'm so, SO sorry for your loss. I'm not going to pretend that I know what you're going through, but I hope that you grow from this experience. I'm sure you will.

Why is there suffering in the world? I don't know. There are so many awful things that happen, and I have not a clue why. But I do believe there is a purpose to all the pain. Just because I don't see the reason why right away - or ever - doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

[ayani]

i'd like to echo the many wise, thoughtful things that others have said. i don't know why there is suffering, and as with many painful things in life, knowing why doesn't promise to make things better. i try not to focus on the why of things, and do what i can to work with the situation at hand. i pray, i try and reach out to someone, i try to figure out what to do next. i agree with much of what Master Vigil has said. suffering is natural. maybe there is some consolation in that fact, maybe not. this too, will pass.

 

[aisha]

I am struggling with belief in a god at the moment. After loosing my father recently and my brother in law it has raised a lot of questions i just cant answer anymore. Like

1.If there is a god why does he let so many people suffer - specifically the hundreds of thousands of children that die every year?


2.How can i beleive in an after life when there is no evidence of its existance? has anyone every come back? or communicated this fact? or is it just to scary a thought that when you die - its just your brain has stopped functioning and your just skin, muscle and bone in a bed????


I have asked myself these questions and nobody has been able to aswer why people have to suffer if there is a god that can stop what is happening to people???

1) Allah gives life and causes death, does it say anywhere that anyone lives forever?
2) Evidence of the after life is written in the Quran and Hadith. I wouldnt say such a fact Jesus [may peace be upon him] died as he will return and tell who what is in the heavens and what is in the hell fire.It is scary to die but once your faith in Allah is built and you follow the Final Messenger [may peace and blessing be upon him] then you will be ready for death.
3) If people are willing to bvelieve, then Allah [swt] will guide them

 

[Scuba Pete]

Welcome to the forums, and I can fully empathise with your losses as I have had to deal with a few myself.

Most of these answers are wonderful. But rather than try to look deep into your soul and try to reconcile the irreconcilable, I will instead pray for your heart and your understanding. I know that Jesus went through everything we went through. He cried when loved ones were lost and he suffered greatly for our sins. No one can be as empathetic as he is.

You might want to read a book by CS Lewis, "Surprised by Joy" (I think). It's about the loss of his beloved wife. Lewis started out life as an athiest, but was later transformed by what he saw. This loss alone brought him powerful insight into the human condition and into God's wonderful Grace. It has helped me before.

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

I'd like to ask you a question, openmindedone. Do you feel any closer to having the answer to your questions? Because judging by the replies of others, if I was asking those questions, I wouldn't be.

It seems to me that half the people trying to help you are doing just that; trying...they don't actually have the answers either. Not satisfying ones anyway. The questions you ask do have an answer.

However, they aren't simple 'yes and no' answers. They require sincere effort on your part and a willingness to want to find them. Are you really prepared to do that? Are you willing to accept the reply? You are asking questions about God, why he does certain things and so on. Now, where do you think would be the best place to go, and whom do you think would be the best person to ask? Isn't best to go directly to the source? Now, there can only be one true God who can give you the answers to your very valid questions? And, believe it or not, the answers to your questions are all found, in what God claims to be his letter, his answers to us, The Bible.

Now then, if you ask a scriptural question, you should be willing to accept a scriptural answer. If you ask God a question, then you must let God give you an answer. It’s only fair isn’t it, otherwise you shouldn't ask in the first place, correct? Now, I have asked questions like yours myself, and guess what, I know the answers to all your questions. Do you want to know more? Then reply to this message.


Ps. just to give you something to think about as regards an afterlife, read Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 and ask yourself, if there is an afterlife or if we live on some how, we would need to be aware of what it’s like when we get there etc, but this scripture says that the dead know nothing, NOTHING. By the way, Sheol means the grave. But that’s not the end of us when we die. (But that’s another subject in itself…) If you have more questions off the back of this, don’t worry, I have more answers.

 

[Lycan]

Now, there can only be one true God who can give you the answers to your very valid questions? And, believe it or not, the answers to your questions are all found, in what God claims to be his letter, his answers to us, The Bible

I disagree with this statement in that not all people find answers here.
As for "one true god" this also is not true for all people.

Openmindedness, it is true that only you can find the answers to these questions. Only through research and opening yourself up to receive these answer will you ever find them. I was raised a Baptist and began after a tragedy, as you, to question everything I had ever believed in. This led me to agnostism (I believed something was out there, I just didnt know what/who it was) and through much study, soul searching and great people (like our fellow RF'ers) I have finally found my truth, my path, my answers. Don't get me wrong, your answers may eventually be found in the bible, but maybe not. I am truly sorry for you loss and hope that the powers that be will look upon you with favor. Just know, that noone can hand you your faith, you have to be prepared to search. Do not look upon your questioning as a negative thing for you never know, your path may be trying to find you or at least tell you something important.

 

[Natural Submission]

The Bible is a record of written traditions over thousands of years. There is MUCH truth to be found in it and great wisdom as well. But it HAS been changed over the years and even attests to this fact within. One shouldn't discard the Bible, but one should take it with a grain of salt and judge it with reason as the Prophet Isiah said.

 

[Lycan]

The Bible is a record of written traditions over thousands of years. There is MUCH truth to be found in it and great wisdom as well. But it HAS been changed over the years and even attests to this fact within. One shouldn't discard the Bible, but one should take it with a grain of salt and judge it with reason as the Prophet Isiah said.

If this is in reference to my post....

I would like to say that I did not say to discard the bible, simply to look elsewhere as well. I did not find my answers there but that does not mean I did not search for them there.

 

[dan]

I am struggling with belief in a god at the moment. After loosing my father recently and my brother in law it has raised a lot of questions i just cant answer anymore. Like

1.If there is a god why does he let so many people suffer - specifically the hundreds of thousands of children that die every year?
2.How can i beleive in an after life when there is no evidence of its existance? has anyone every come back? or communicated this fact? or is it just to scary a thought that when you die - its just your brain has stopped functioning and your just skin, muscle and bone in a bed????

I have asked myself these questions and nobody has been able to aswer why people have to suffer if there is a god that can stop what is happening to people???

I'll take an example from a really good book: let's say you're raising a child and one day he comes and says he wants to get a bike. Will you let him (assume he's at that age where most people start riding bikes)? More than likely; but won't he fall? Is it worth it to learn to ride a bike if you run the risk of falling? Falling is part of learning to ride a bike, and it sucks; but they say you can tell a child the stove is hot, but he won't know until he touches it.

Some of our suffering is to help us learn and grow. When you do strength training you are literally tearing your muscles apart; but when they heal they heal that much stronger so they'll be able to take it the next time.

Some of our suffering is the natural consequence of our mistakes. Some of our sufferning is caused by other people. Shouldn't God protect us, though? Well, God has promised that He would never take away one of our greatest gifts, our free will. We have the right to choose whether or not to obey Him, and God would be infringing upon that right if He stopped every person from ever causing harm to another person. That's not really that fair, but this life is not all there is. In the eternities God will more than make up for those sufferings we unjustly had to endure. Children will be rewarded for the trials they have to pass through.

As for your other question, proof is a human requirement. God will give you the understanding you look for if you do what He asks. His evidence is more convincing than anything you can see with your eyes.

 

[openmindedone]

Hi,

Its been a long time since i first went through the pain of my family members passing and since then more have died but i have actually made a sort of peace with myself on the whole subject now.

After taking much into consideration and talking openly with friends of all faiths i came to the conclusion that i am in fact an atheist.

I really did at the start turn to being agnostic, however i was not being honest with myself. I don't go to church for anything except weddings/funerals/christenings, that i do out of respect for those that have invited me.

When my father was alive we had hrs of time on the issues of his beliefs and although he always put up a good argument for Christianity he always let me make my own mind up. In my youth i took my family faith in that i went to Sunday school and church on Sundays and was always a good person. At Sunday school i always felt different to others because i didn't totally believe everything they were telling me was the truth. How could adam and eve be the first of human kind when writings only date back 3,000yrs and the earth being 4.7+billions yrs old, it just never computed at theat age.

Then we were taught about darwin and visited museums full of dinsau fosils dating back millions of yrs. When i asked at RE lesson why Religeon says one thing and we are told in science that all these things existed before humans were on the earth, i was told thats just how it is, you either have faith or you do not, you either believe in the teachings or not. At that point i think i was agnostic, sitting on the fence, undecided, hoping in 1 respect to their being someone or something after this life is over, in the other respect looking at the facts and knowing that when your heart stops pumping blood to the brain your body will die. You brain stops some 15mins after and thats it.

The point is that now i live in the moment, enjoy where i am each day and am very happy to be alive and living a great life with a great family around me. I am a good man, husband and father, i dont need to believe in god to live my life with my own set of moral guidelines and know my place in society. I think i am now just a peace with my own position but it has taken a long time to know who and what i am.

Above all i just needed to be honest with myself and just face the facts.

 

[BucephalusBB]

WOW, when I opened this thread seeing the first post being made in 2005 I thought it was one of those thread revivals from a member who didn't know it was an old thread.. But it is the original threadmaker himself! With only 11 posts I would have almost welcomed you, but your posts were even made before I got here at all!!

I am glad to hear that everything is ok for you now. Although I never really understood why someone would turn atheistic after the loss of someone.

 

[openmindedone]

Its quite simple really. When you sit holding someone when they die and you see their last breath and then you ask yourself why it happened as it did.

Then you ask others why and listen. Everyone has a different opinion on what happends to the person you lost. Then you deal with the funeral and meet all the people who knew your father. Then you get a reflection period where you then review it all over again from what you believe and what you hear from others and then make your mind up.

I never took comfort from being told hes moved on to a better place, there is no rational reason why he should have suffered so badly for so long in my view. The only thing i did agree on was that he was no longer suffering with the pain he had once he was dead. I did think selfishly that i wanted him as long as possible no matter the pain he was in but in the end i know when he passed he was at peace as the pain didnt matter any more.

I think when you cant get answers to a questions you have to get them yourself and that takes time. I was given many reasons why things happen as they do and how religion shows their gods act but in the end its down to me to accept and move on. As soon as i accepted its all part of life i just got on with living, ok without god yes and it hasn't changed who i am in any way, things are just now very clear.

 

[.lava]

I am struggling with belief in a god at the moment. After loosing my father recently and my brother in law it has raised a lot of questions i just cant answer anymore. Like

1.If there is a god why does he let so many people suffer - specifically the hundreds of thousands of children that die every year?

one is not physically suffering does not mean he is happy. also people who suffer might have peace within. truth is people who's close to God are peaceful and happy.

children are not born into families randomly. God already knows a kid would die when he is 1 or 2 years old and probably certain souls are chosen to be born to live very short lives. who knows maybe those souls agree with it even before they were born. we do not know all the details so we need to accept there are things we can not know. we should trust God for its judgement instead of trusting our limited knowledge and intellect. we do not know what death is or how one would feel during process so it is maybe wrong to classify death as suffering or a bad thing.

2.How can i beleive in an after life when there is no evidence of its existance? has anyone every come back? or communicated this fact? or is it just to scary a thought that when you die - its just your brain has stopped functioning and your just skin, muscle and bone in a bed????

I have asked myself these questions and nobody has been able to aswer why people have to suffer if there is a god that can stop what is happening to people???

no evidence for after life? where were you before you were born? this is not the place to come back. we die and we go back where we belong. we consider body as a dress. you only change your dress when you die. don't ID yourself with what you wear temporarly. body we use during dreams is also a body of ours. we have three bodies. physical one belongs to this place. it is just a vehicle we need to experience life on Earth.





.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Its quite simple really. When you sit holding someone when they die and you see their last breath and then you ask yourself why it happened as it did.

O don't get me wrong, I understand that..
But no offence, I didn't need to see pain and death in my own circle to know it's true. So if I would be a believer, I would calculate pain and suffering in it. So seeing that pain and suffering could not "suddenly" change me in a nonbeliever.

 

[BucephalusBB]

no evidence for after life? where were you before you were born?

I was nowhere..(Or better, "I" was non-existant) Wich would be evidence that there is no afterlife instead of the opposite