Can the Quran only be understood one way.

[Unveiled Artist]

So is Islam the Quran, or is Islam the actual message that was given to Muhammad, and was give to others by the people who truly understood the meaning of the teaching also after Muhammad had passed away?

What is the difference?

I'd say Islam is based on the Quran. The actually message that was given to muhammad (an angel of god or god?) and through or by muhammad, the message to others who understood his (god's) teachings before he passed away

I'd assume muhammad was a mouthpiece for God and others taught others the Quran from their understanding.

Outside of that, I'm not really a scripture book person so in my opinion go with your experiences first. They are probably easier to interpret than attempting to find literally teachings of the quran to apply it to today's modern way of things. Culture and language make up spiritual messages. So, maybe not all messages are appropriate for today..that or find meaning in experiences since their not generation dependant.

 

[Niblo]

The scripture might have been down at that time, i meant to say the complete look quran as one finished look.

Thank you for your correction

You're very welcome, brother.

I was thinking as much, but offered clarification..........just in case!

 

[Spirit of Light]

What is the difference?

I'd say Islam is based on the Quran. He actually message that was given to muhammad (an angel of god or god?) and through or by muhammad, the message to others who understood his (god's) teachings before he passed away

I'd assume muhammad was a mouthpiece for God and others taught others the Quran from their understanding.

Outside of that, I'm not really a scripture book person so in my opinion go with your experiences first. They are probably easier to interpret than attempting to find literally teachings of the quran to apply it to today's modern way of things. Culture and language make up spiritual messages. So, maybe not all messages are appropriate for today..that or find meaning in experiences since their not generation dependant.

Its about if its impossible to use common sense when reading quran or if one should take every single word literarly without any way to heim personal understanding when reading the quran

I believe each muslim will gain personal understanding of the teaching and not follow it letter by letter

 

[danieldemol]

I can see how you'd think so from an atheistic perspective. Not so much from a Muslim one though. The thread is about interpretation of the Qur'an. You brought up actions done by extremists as though they are based on the Qur'an, when the Qur'an says nothing of the sort.

Abul A'la Maududi - Wikipedia appears to cite Quran 9:11-12 as reffering to those who broke their pledge of allegiance to Islam 1,2

Note, I'm not saying that he was correct in his interpretation of the Quran, just pointing out that according to him apostasy was in accordance with his interpretation of the Quran.

1 Does the Koran Endorse Apostasy Laws? | HuffPost
2 The Punishment of the Apostate According to Islamic Law

 

[firedragon]

Interesting question.
As a work of literature, multiple interpretations are encouraged. But as a holy book, it must have one single interpretation.

Why? And what do you really mean by interpretation?

 

[firedragon]

This thread would suggest that if it can only be read one way there is a big problem


Nigeria: Man stoned to death, set ablaze in front of police by radical Islamist mob on charges of bl

Subject: Quran
Your input: Man stoned to death in Nigeria

Somethings wrong mate.

 

[firedragon]

Its about if its impossible to use common sense when reading quran or if one should take every single word literarly without any way to heim personal understanding when reading the quran

I believe each muslim will gain personal understanding of the teaching and not follow it letter by letter

Can you give a specific example?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Can you give a specific example?

If two people from different branch of islam read the same quran, they will have two different understandings, and may disagree on parts of the teaching, but mainly agree

 

[sun rise]

Tafsir Talk 1: The Nature Of The Quran and Its Levels of Tafsir has this which I take as accurate. There's the literal and other levels and then the inner meaning.

5. Mystical/Philosophical/Tawil/High Allegory

This is the deepest objective level of interpretation, perceivable by man. There are two opposite, sometimes opposing schools that use this level, that of the mystics and that of the philosophers. The methods that are used on this level are the same as those that are used on level two, but are not organicvi. How these interpretations are derived, tend to only be passed along between teacher and student. Being that I do not know how the interpretations at this level are reached, I can only give an example of an allegory being used at this level, and not explain the workings behind the scenes.

He said, Truly, when kings enter a village, they destroy it and debase the exalted among its inhabitants. This is the way they behave (Quran 27:34).

What is meant by that is that it is the custom of kings, when they descend upon a village, to enslave its people and make them submissive to them, so that they can do nothing without the command of the king. Likewise, when gnosis (marifa) enters the heart (qalb), nothing remains in it that it does not uproot, and nothing moves in it that it does not burn
...
“It should be noted that whenever someone maintains that the Quran has no meaning other than that expressed by external method of exegesis, then in doing so he is expressing his own limitations.”

-Al-Ghazali, Revival of the Religious Sciences 1.268

“Know that the outward form passes away, but the world of Meaning remains forever.

How long will you make love with the shape of the jug? Leave aside the jug’s shape: Go seek water!

Having seen the form, you are unaware of the meaning. If you are wise, pick out the pearl from the shell.”

-Rumi, The Masnavi

 

[sun rise]

After the last post, I remembered "Ayat al nur", the light verse which many have commented on. I'm not a scholar of Islam so I have nothing to say outside of I've read various thoughts on this particular verse.

An Exposition of the Verse of Light (Ayat al-Nur)

Tafsir of Chapter 024 Verse 35: The Verse of Light - SunnahOnline.com

Sufi commentaries on the Qur’an

 

[Spirit of Light]

After the last post, I remembered "Ayat al nur", the light verse which many have commented on. I'm not a scholar of Islam so I have nothing to say outside of I've read various thoughts on this particular verse.

An Exposition of the Verse of Light (Ayat al-Nur)

Tafsir of Chapter 024 Verse 35: The Verse of Light - SunnahOnline.com

Sufi commentaries on the Qur’an

The part of purifying our heart is very similar to sufi teaching.

 

[Augustus]

Is it possible to say that the quran can only be understood one way

It wouldn't reflect Islamic history, theology or jurisprudence.

There isn't even a single way to read the Quran, let alone interpret it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Its about if its impossible to use common sense when reading quran or if one should take every single word literarly without any way to heim personal understanding when reading the quran

I believe each muslim will gain personal understanding of the teaching and not follow it letter by letter

If I were Muslim, I'd follow it by experience/personal interpretation. Take this verse (spontaneous pick)

Quran (22:19-21) - But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron

If you read this by experience/interpretation "and" context instead of literally (meaning you can't pick and choose the positive from the negative), this could mean a couple of things... it could mean in that culture and time period that's what they actually did to "pagans" (like christianity) they killed non-believers because they didn't follow their culture and norms of christ and the Church.

It could be a metaphor showing how Allah disapproves of those who do not follow him and (like the other verse in another thread of yours) he wants you to teach others so they won't loose their way (interesting way to show it though).

It could be a warning for muslims that if they fall behind in their practice/belief, they have consequences.

If you read it literally, you would literally not figuratively believe that non-believers should be put to death.

While I don't use the word cherry-picking (it sounds like a negative connotation), but I do understand where that comes from. If Allah says believe X and you're accustomed to Y, and its negative by your standards, but positive in Allah's how do you reconcile the two?

Of course you wouldn't go out and kill, but I do know some christians (haven't spoken with Muslims) who are nice to people on earth but support god when it comes to their eternal damnation. Which, to me, sounds kind of backwards if I really respected a person.

But anyway, you can see it both ways. I just think if your experiences are positive and Allah says "kill non-believers because of X", I'd ask do you want to take that literally or do you want to find spiritual ways to reconcile the two without changing Quran teaching (and also you can talk to your teacher about it)

 

[firedragon]

If two people from different branch of islam read the same quran, they will have two different understandings, and may disagree on parts of the teaching, but mainly agree

Brother. I would prefer and urge you to make a specific case, verse and different interpretations. Thats the reason I asked for a specific example.

I agree with you, but I like to be specific.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Brother. I would prefer and urge you to make a specific case, verse and different interpretations. Thats the reason I asked for a specific example.

I agree with you, but I like to be specific.

I did not have spesific in mind when i wrote the OP

 

[firedragon]

I did not have spesific in mind when i wrote the OP

I understand that. That is why I would like to urge you to go to the specifics. I have many many reasons for saying that, but its not necessary to say all of that. When you get into specifics since you are interested, you yourself with an open mind will find out why.

Peace.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I did not have spesific in mind when i wrote the OP

Does Islam have another book like Jews to the Hadith that can help with interpretation?

The only people I know to take scripture literally are sola-scriptura christians. Most people I'd assume base their religious views on their experiences and interpretations.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Does Islam have another book like Jews to the Hadith that can help with interpretation?

The only people I know to take scripture literally are sola-scriptura christians. Most people I'd assume base their religious views on their experiences and interpretations.

Quran, hadith and sunnah, and sufis tas other texts too

 

[firedragon]

There isn't even a single way to read the Quran, let alone interpret it.

Can you give some specific examples?

 

[Clara Tea]

Is it possible to say that the quran can only be understood one way (literarly) or is it due to how a person practice what is written?

When Muhammad was teaching Islam(Quran) he asked his followers to go out to speak the truth and teach others about Islam. And when he died Some was Chosen by Muhammad to keep deliviering the message as Muhammad had done.

So is Islam the Quran, or is Islam the actual message that was given to Muhammad, and was give to others by the people who truly understood the meaning of the teaching also after Muhammad had passed away?

If it wasn't for different interpretations, there would be no disagreements.

However, it is possible that just one interpretation is correct, and possible that no one found that correct interpretation.

As Donald Rumsfeld once said, there are knows that we are are known, knowns that we don't know are known, unknowns that we don't know are unknown, and unknowns that we know are unknown.

I'd like to add to Rumsfeld's statement, that there are probabilities attached to each known and unknown, and attached to our level of confidence that we know or don't know them.

Well, I'm certainly glad that Rumsfeld cleared that up for you.