Can the Soul be destroyed?

[Rainbow Mage]

I think this would be an interesting idea to discuss. Can it?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There's no way to know...

BUT

Assuming that there is a soul, I would think that it would be immortal IF there were no gods.

If there is a god, I would think that this being would have the ability to direct and destroy souls.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I agree, and I also agree I can't know for sure. Most of the ancient religions seemed to feel the soul could be destroyed, prior to Christian and Islamic idea of hellfire.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I would think without knowing exactly what the soul is, it would be quite difficult to determine if it was ever destroyed?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I agree, and I also agree I can't know for sure. Most of the ancient religions seemed to feel the soul could be destroyed, prior to Christian and Islamic idea of hellfire.

I would appreciate citations on this.

The Greek philosophers who believed this are few and far between -- AND it was typically used as polemic that may not have been true. That is, there is a rhetorical tradition where philosophers accuse their opponents of being atheist or blaspheming against the immortality (or construction of) the soul.

In my reading I have not encountered traditions where the soul is destroyed.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't know exactly what the soul is either, good point. Is it necessary to know? It's obvious there's something in this life that ties all life together, even animal and plant life. That is what I call soul.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Evangellous did you ever study about the Greek idea of Tarturus when you were studying the Greeks? Tartarus is more then just Hades, a lot more. And the ancient Egyptians believed that if you didn't pass the weighing of the heart in the hall of judgment, your soul was fed to the monster Ammit.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I don't have a problem with your definition. I just think it will be problematic to isolate a finality such as destruction of something, if we can't first find what exactly we are isolating to destroy.

If you define it as you have above, what would be the evidence of such an action as destroying "your"soul?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I didn't say there was evidence for the destruction of the soul. The ancients could have been wrong. I am just asking about the idea of it. The idea of the soul, from my perspective, is that all souls are supposed to be working together in harmony, as one unit, since it's through the soul we're all connected. If one constantly fought against this unity and was given even a 1000 lifetimes to correct their selfishness, and they would not, could they ever co-exist with the whole? I don't know

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Evangellous did you ever study about the Greek idea of Tarturus when you were studying the Greeks? Tartarus is more then just Hades, a lot more. And the ancient Egyptians believed that if you didn't pass the weighing of the heart in the hall of judgment, your soul was fed to the monster Ammit.

As for the Greeks -- yes, I agree that there was no singular tradition. I was only talking about philosophical traditions, but there is also a pelethora of religious traditions as well. The common people lived for the day - as well as the elites - and I'm sure that very few people actually meditated on the afterlife.

BUT the grave inscriptions of the elite and the folk indicate strongly that people other than the religious leaders and philosophers had some concept of the continuation of the soul.

As for the Egyptians - the soul being fed to the monster Ammit - does this mean destruction, or does the soul become a part of the monster? I don't think that this is enough evidence for destruction, and I suspect that the larger interpretative tradition would indicate this.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well Evangellous the Egyptian idea of the soul is very complex. The idea is that the individual person would have ceased to exist. The ka of the soul. The fleeting, individual soul.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well Evangellous the Egyptian idea of the soul is very complex. The idea is that the individual person would have ceased to exist. The ka of the soul. The fleeting, individual soul.

I have no doubt of that. The various Greek traditions are complex as well.

I'm not convinced, however, that there is one Egyptian concept of the soul. Traditions have histories and develop over time... there could be, and almost certainly are, conflicting ideas of what the soul is in various schools of Egyptian thought.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well Angellous, we as Kemetic Orthodox try to follow the oldest existing tradition possible in the case of varying traditions, and we probably wouldn't accept later Hellenestic ideas as valid.

 

[logician]

I think this would be an interesting idea to discuss. Can it?

You're making a rather bold assumption it exists in the first place.

What evidence do you have to support this assumption?:sleep:

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Perhaps we should start with whether they can be created in the first place.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps...I doubt it could though, or at least the essence of the soul that is.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well Shadow Wolf, I can touch some on the Kemetic idea of the soul, based on what you said. The Kemetic idea of the soul is that it's made up of various parts, though the two main parts are the ka and the ba. The ka is the individual fleeting person, while the ba is where the ka emminates from, and can incarnate various times as other ka. It really has no personality though. So there's not this idea like I think exists in Hinduism that the lesser soul can redeem the greater soul and stop all rebirths. If your ba reincarnated, your ka wouldn't know it.

 

[sunsplash]

I guess I'm of the opinion that whatever can be created can be destroyed.

 

[dust1n]

I think this would be an interesting idea to discuss. Can it?

Sure. 6 cups holy water, 4 cups of cranberry sauce, 2 cups Tum's, 1 shrunken monkey head, 4 oz blood of virgin, 3 oz Tony's seasoning, oregano, and a dash of lime. Bring to a boil for 10 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes and 17 seconds. Ingest via mouth (for best results) and wait.

 

[Gentoo]

I've come across a couple of mythologies that claim the soul can be destroyed..