Can we compromise on abortion?

[Shaul]

Is that because pregnant women can't be trusted?

Nobody ever said that pregnant women can't be trusted. But if a story that is told doesn't comport with actual facts, that story is apocryphal regardless of who is telling it. It is a fact that ectopic pregnancy termination is legal in Texas. If someone is telling a story that getting an ectopic pregnancy terminated in Texas is problematic, then that doesn't comport with the facts.

 

[Alien826]

The rock was very stable for 50 years with Roe vs. Wade. It took the religious right some very shady moves to undermine the foundations. They didn't accept the established compromise and they show no signs that they are willing to return to it. They are the ones who created the all-or-nothing war and they deserve to get nothing.

Agreed, but. We have to deal with it as it is, not how we would like it to be or how it should have been.

What I'm hoping is that there is a moderate population of Republicans that are as fed up with extremism as we are and might welcome an end to all this bickering, though they will never admit it publicly. I believe that may be the case in general. Unfortunately for them they have a situation where there are enough Trumpists to block reasonable politicians and policies but not enough to win elections. They've painted themselves into a corner where they will have to dump Trump and spend some time rebuilding their party, with the Dems in charge, if they want to ever recover some semblance of a reasonable party. I don't feel sorry for them, but something will have to be done.

Then of course there's the Supreme Court, dominated by Catholics, that could block any compromise that the rest of us come to. Something needs to be done about that. I favor term limits designed to give each President at least one nomination. But that's another subject.

 

[Alien826]

An ever increasing proportion of the American people are turning against their moral bullying and bigoted extremism. Especially young people. The time of their reckoning is coming. Even their republican toadies in government are going to have to turn against them soon, or lose their seats. The momentary rise of the right wing extremist is coming to an end.

One can only hope.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is the legal term. The Law applies to judicial, medical, scientific and every other sphere of human endeavor. The Legislators created the law, not "politicians". They did so after due consideration and including input from the best in the medical community. No one is "redefining" anything.

The bottom line is that the law is quite clear in Texas. Ectopic pregnancy termination is not abortion. You desperately want to use ectopic pregnancy as a political wedge to promote abortions. But that has no legs since ectopic pregnancy termination was and is legal.

Cool, so all that doctors have to do to make abortion legal is to call it something else. I never thought of that argument.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Agreed, but. We have to deal with it as it is, not how we would like it to be or how it should have been.

What I'm hoping is that there is a moderate population of Republicans that are as fed up with extremism as we are and might welcome an end to all this bickering, though they will never admit it publicly. I believe that may be the case in general. Unfortunately for them they have a situation where there are enough Trumpists to block reasonable politicians and policies but not enough to win elections. They've painted themselves into a corner where they will have to dump Trump and spend some time rebuilding their party, with the Dems in charge, if they want to ever recover some semblance of a reasonable party. I don't feel sorry for them, but something will have to be done.

Then of course there's the Supreme Court, dominated by Catholics, that could block any compromise that the rest of us come to. Something needs to be done about that. I favor term limits designed to give each President at least one nomination. But that's another subject.

Not all Republicans are heartless extremists. Even in very red Kansas when it came to a popular vote they voted to keep their current abortion laws that allows abortions up to the 22nd week of pregnancy. They voted for it at almost 60% to 40%. What we see now is that the extremists have taken over the Republican party. That will only continue to harm the Republicans as they slowly lose the more sane members of their party:

https://www.npr.org/sections/2022-live-primary-election-race-results/2022/08/02/1115317596/kansas-voters-abortion-legal-reject-constitutional-amendment

 

[Orbit]

It is the legal term. The Law applies to judicial, medical, scientific and every other sphere of human endeavor. The Legislators created the law, not "politicians". They did so after due consideration and including input from the best in the medical community. No one is "redefining" anything.

The bottom line is that the law is quite clear in Texas. Ectopic pregnancy termination is not abortion. You desperately want to use ectopic pregnancy as a political wedge to promote abortions. But that has no legs since ectopic pregnancy termination was and is legal.

Saving the life of a mother with an ectopic pregnancy is "promoting abortions"???!!! That is a warped view.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

No, they are not abortions. By law a termination of an ectopic pregnancy is defined to NOT be an abortion. Your personal definitions are not authoritative. The legislature has made the official authoritative definition. IOW you are flat out wrong.

This is like taking North Korea at their word that it's a democracy because that's how they've defined it. Texas theocrat nutjobs are defining the word incorretly to suit their political agenda, not the medical community. Because removal of an ectopic pregnancy is, in fact, an abortion procedure using abortificents and surgical termination of a pregnancy.

Texas is just knee deep in denial (and voter suppression and stagnant education.)

 

[crossfire]

It is the legal term. The Law applies to judicial, medical, scientific and every other sphere of human endeavor. The Legislators created the law, not "politicians". They did so after due consideration and including input from the best in the medical community. No one is "redefining" anything.

The bottom line is that the law is quite clear in Texas. Ectopic pregnancy termination is not abortion. You desperately want to use ectopic pregnancy as a political wedge to promote abortions. But that has no legs since ectopic pregnancy termination was and is legal.

Abortion will be the medical term that goes on the medical records, which might make the doctors vulnerable to overzealous yahoos who want to file suit. Having to deal with these harassing lawsuits cuts down on the time they are available to practice medicine.

 

[Heyo]

Agreed, but. We have to deal with it as it is, not how we would like it to be or how it should have been.

What I'm hoping is that there is a moderate population of Republicans that are as fed up with extremism as we are and might welcome an end to all this bickering, though they will never admit it publicly.

Not only population but Representatives:
"Republican Rep. Nancy Mace of South Carolina says she will ignore a ruling by a Texas district court judge that suspended the approval of the abortion pill mifepristone." -

And the population is so overwhelmingly pro choice that ballot initiatives will be successful in most red states.

 

[The Hammer]

Suggestion. All males must receive vasectomies, which will be reversed at when they get married.

Any male that father's a child before the age of 30, pays a hefty fine and gets imprisoned for 5 years.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Did you not have that in much of the US for some time, just like many other developed nations? Abortion was never entirely unrestricted or unregulated anywhere and while there are certainly extremists who do argue for unconditional freedom, most people defined as "pro-choice" support the kind of common sense restrictions and regulations that have long existed.

Canada has no legal restrictions on abortion.

We sometimes run into practical restrictions based on service availability, but abortion is legal in Canada at any point during pregnancy.

 

[Nimos]

A while back, I posted a similar thread to this on a Christian forum. What I got from the pro-life people there was an emphatic "no". Abortion is murder and we won't rest until it's stamped out totally.

I'd like to try again here, a more reasonable place, mostly.

Here's the question. Looking at the current situation in the USA, it seems to me that we can only come to some kind of peaceful agreement on abortion if both sides compromise. Pro-life people must allow some abortions and pro-choice people must accept some restrictions. Then, once the compromise is reached, most people have to accept it and abide by it.

I'm not proposing any particular solution, just saying that we can't go on like this forever.

What do you think?

I think there is already a compromise built into how it currently works, assuming that it works similarly in Denmark as in the rest of the EU and the US, which is that within a certain period of time, abortion is an option.

The problem as I see it is that those people that oppose abortion are not interested in a compromise at all, but rather want to "force" their rules upon everyone else, nothing prevents a person that is against abortion from simply not getting one.

But that shouldn't mean that everyone else should feel the same way, so the rules allow for both options and given that there is no correct answer to this question in the first place, the parents should be able to decide it for themselves within the given time period.

 

[syo]

A WOMAN CARRYING HER RAPIST'S DNA IS APPALLING

 

[syo]

A while back, I posted a similar thread to this on a Christian forum. What I got from the pro-life people there was an emphatic "no". Abortion is murder and we won't rest until it's stamped out totally.

We need more lions.

 

[Shaul]

Saving the life of a mother with an ectopic pregnancy is "promoting abortions"???!!! That is a warped view.

Nobody said that. I wrote that the law says terminating ectopic pregnancies is not abortion. Which is what the law says.

 

[Shaul]

A WOMAN CARRYING HER RAPIST'S DNA IS APPALLING

Yes, it is. Why are you shouting?

 

[metis]

The Legislators created the law, not "politicians".

Um, the legislators are politicians.

 

[Shaul]

Abortion will be the medical term that goes on the medical records, which might make the doctors vulnerable to overzealous yahoos who want to file suit. Having to deal with these harassing lawsuits cuts down on the time they are available to practice medicine.

That isn't true. Any ectopic pregnancy termination is legal regardless of the jargonic words a doctor uses in some private writings. Furthermore there are remedies against frivolous lawsuits.

 

[syo]

Yes, it is. Why are you shouting?

Because people think rapist's kids are legit. puke.

 

[Shaul]

Um, the legislators are politicians.

Um, no, they are those that write laws. Check your dictionary.