Can You Be Good Without God?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No because one of the way god works is through human agencies.

Even so, that'd be God working through me. If we're talking about my own choices and motivations, we're talking about me working through me: my choices, my motivations.

If God's going to use me as a human agent, then I don't see how my personal motivations are relevant. If he can pull the strings to make me do what he wants, then that'll happen whether or not I want to help. No?

You won't get a lot of milage if you feel presurized to do something.
You would last longer if you want to do it.
Go with what you want. Don't force yourself.

Who says that these things are mutually exclusive? The fact that I see a need doesn't mean that I can't want to fill it.

 

[Faithfreedom]

No, there are murderers, child molestors, rapists, extremists, and they all do horrible things in the name of god. We see it everyday,

Yes, very close. Spot on, in fact. They serve god satan; they think they are doing it for a holy god. But they are doing it for god satan.

I just read the new child molestation charges brought against the Catholic Church. How much closer to god is that?

The bible says better to marry than to burn in lust. The bible says that celibacy is not for eveyone. Obviously those child molesting priest are not right for the job. They are caught in a trap and not have the courage to get out of. They should quit their jobs and marry if they cannot control their natural urges. I'm a protestant. I do not think its right for people not to marry. Some people who have the gift - yes. But these are so few.

 

[Faithfreedom]

isn't that putting limits on god?

No because i said its one of the ways that god uses.
In the ME, the people are so fed up with killing that they can see the futility of it all.
Some get spontaneous dreams/visions where they see Jesus calling them to Christianity. Brave souls those who convert in the ME.

as i see it, this life is all we have...wouldn't that make life that much more meaningful and inspire one to be good?

True, this life is all we have.
It depends on what we want to do with our lives.
As we live our lives, we get ideas and resolve solidifies.
Whether its towards good or towards evil, and anywhere in-between, all depends on the life-philosophy we really subscribe to. And how much good or how much evil we do depends on how far we travel down the road of the life-philosophy that we subscribe to.

I know that it sounds like a lot of mumbo-jumbo, but what we feel and think matters a lot. Because its for there that our actions first have birth before it becomes a reality.

 

[Faithfreedom]

Even so, that'd be God working through me. If we're talking about my own choices and motivations, we're talking about me working through me: my choices, my motivations.

If God's going to use me as a human agent, then I don't see how my personal motivations are relevant. If he can pull the strings to make me do what he wants, then that'll happen whether or not I want to help. No?

God used the Assyrians to punish his people - the jews, when they had sinned too much. God used the Assyrians' motivation to conquer for his purpose. Though god can pull strings, i don't think he does it all the time. He gives free choice to people (most of the time that is - unless when prophecies have to be fullfilled). I may well be mistaken, for who am i to know god so well. Its most probable that i know very little about how he works. Still i can try to apply my understanding to gain some knowledge and satisfactory answers to my wonderings.

Who says that these things are mutually exclusive? The fact that I see a need doesn't mean that I can't want to fill it.

Yes, you are right; they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[waitasec]

No because i said its one of the ways that god uses.
In the ME, the people are so fed up with killing that they can see the futility of it all.
Some get spontaneous dreams/visions where they see Jesus calling them to Christianity. Brave souls those who convert in the ME.


True, this life is all we have.
It depends on what we want to do with our lives.
As we live our lives, we get ideas and resolve solidifies.
Whether its towards good or towards evil, and anywhere in-between, all depends on the life-philosophy we really subscribe to. And how much good or how much evil we do depends on how far we travel down the road of the life-philosophy that we subscribe to.

I know that it sounds like a lot of mumbo-jumbo, but what we feel and think matters a lot. Because its for there that our actions first have birth before it becomes a reality.

you think the average person wants to be evil?

 

[Faithfreedom]

you think the average person wants to be evil?

not only the average person but everyone (including me) have a good side and a bad side. How much he or she gives into which ever side all depends on the philosophy of life that he or she ascribe to.

You will tend to be more on the side that you act on.

Bad people tend to their bad side but there a few of their actions are from the good side. Vise versa for good people - sometimes they also screw up.

I'm sure you will agree that no one is all good or all bad.

Nobody wnats to be evil. Even Al Capone thinks that he was misunderstood and that he was doing good actually. But that's according to his judgment. We do the same thing. We all think that we are doing the best we can in the circumstances that we are in. We all think that we are doing good and not evil. Still that does not prevent other people judging us. I'm sure Hitler or Ghengis Khan thinks they are doing God's work.

 

[waitasec]

not only the average person but everyone (including me) have a good side and a bad side. How much he or she gives into which ever side all depends on the philosophy of life that he or she ascribe to.

You will tend to be more on the side that you act on.

Bad people tend to their bad side but there a few of their actions are from the good side. Vise versa for good people - sometimes they also screw up.

I'm sure you will agree that no one is all good or all bad.

well, do you think the average person wakes up in the morning thinking, i want to do something bad today...

 

[Faithfreedom]

well, do you think the average person wakes up in the morning thinking, i want to do something bad today...

Nope, normally almost everyone wants to do good when their basic needs are met.

 

[waitasec]

Nope, normally almost everyone wants to do good when their basic needs are met.

by basic needs
you mean love shelter and food


this a little off topic...
a good way to determine if one is in a good place in life is to observe what type of driver they are.
if i speed up in order to keep a car from another lane to enter "my" lane
that's a sure way of indicating if i'm in a good place or not

 

[MW0082]

Yes, very close. Spot on, in fact. They serve god satan; they think they are doing it for a holy god. But they are doing it for god satan.



The bible says better to marry than to burn in lust. The bible says that celibacy is not for eveyone. Obviously those child molesting priest are not right for the job. They are caught in a trap and not have the courage to get out of. They should quit their jobs and marry if they cannot control their natural urges. I'm a protestant. I do not think its right for people not to marry. Some people who have the gift - yes. But these are so few.

The bible has the word of god saying he (god) and followers (man) should slay rape and torture thy enemy. Kill the men and rape the women and children. That is the word of god god, not satan/god.....

 

[Magic Man]

this a little off topic...
a good way to determine if one is in a good place in life is to observe what type of driver they are.
if i speed up in order to keep a car from another lane to enter "my" lane
that's a sure way of indicating if i'm in a good place or not

True, but it depends. Is that other driver generally being a jerk and weaving and cutting people off?

 

[waitasec]

True, but it depends. Is that other driver generally being a jerk and weaving and cutting people off?

you only know when you're being the jerk...
especially if you're looking for excuses

that behavior annoys me too...but at that moment i have a choice
let it go or get even...

 

[Magic Man]

you only know when you're being the jerk...
especially if you're looking for excuses

I don't understand.

that behavior annoys me too...but at that moment i have a choice
let it go or get even...

Sure, but what's wrong with getting even?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sure, but what's wrong with getting even?

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it."

 

[Magic Man]

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it."

But in this case, the pig doesn't like it.

 

[waitasec]

I don't understand.

you know if you are the one being the offender...
sometimes you may be the one offending but you're not aware of it...

Sure, but what's wrong with getting even?

accidents happen...it's risky (road rage)
people get hurt

another thing that really shows if you're in a good place or not is if you leave your dogs mess on a neighbors lawn...

 

[Magic Man]

you know if you are the one being the offender...
sometimes you may be the one offending but you're not aware of it...

accidents happen...it's risky (road rage)
people get hurt

Not letting someone in your lane is not risky, if the person is already weaving and cutting people off.

another thing that really shows if you're in a good place or not is if you leave your dogs mess on a neighbors lawn...

I don't think this shows the same thing as your driving example.

 

[waitasec]

Not letting someone in your lane is not risky, if the person is already weaving and cutting people off.

well one would need to ask, "who am i to pass judgement, maybe their wife is in in labor?"

I don't think this shows the same thing as your driving example.

really?
are you guilty of this?

 

[Magic Man]

well one would need to ask, "who am i to pass judgement, maybe their wife is in in labor?"

You can tell these things. It's pretty easy to tell when someone's just being a jerk. Sometimes, not, and I will give the people the benefit of the doubt when appropriate. I'm talking about times when the person is just being a jerk.

really?
are you guilty of this?

No, I'm just saying I think this shows something different about a person.

 

[waitasec]

You can tell these things. It's pretty easy to tell when someone's just being a jerk. Sometimes, not, and I will give the people the benefit of the doubt when appropriate. I'm talking about times when the person is just being a jerk.

i say if the person is being a jerk, let it go, let them pass and be on their way
this person being a jerk has nothing to do with you
more often than not people are not being intentional jerks...

No, I'm just saying I think this shows something different about a person.

i see