can you proove there isn't a deity?

[roger1440]

That was not what one mans religion did.

That is what some religious extremist did.

In their own mind they were not extremists. No one would think of themselves as an extremist. The word “extremist” is an arbitrary term. In other words it means different things to different people. It’s an opinion. Some churches frown upon smoking and drinking. To me that is extreme, but to them it’s not. I know cause I use to go to such a church. I smoke, drink, have tattoos and at the time had very long hair. To them I was a sort of outsider. From my perspective they were the ones on the outside.

 

[ladybug77]

In their own mind they were not extremists. No one would think of themselves as an extremist. The word “extremist” is an arbitrary term. In other words it means different things to different people. It’s an opinion. Some churches frown upon smoking and drinking. To me that is extreme, but to them it’s not. I know cause I use to go to such a church. I smoke, drink, have tattoos and at the time had very long hair. To them I was a sort of outsider. From my perspective they were the ones on the outside.

This is a good paragraph to reflect on. That church is worried about your body?? Or your soul?? Its two different things....i respect the soul alot more than the body. I smoke cigarettes...am i a bad person?? No. My body is less healthy....but my spirit is vibrant!! Thats what counts.

 

[outhouse]

Am i allowed to ask that?? I kinda never read the rules. Lol. Opps. I should do that. Well anyhow...i believe in God. I believe in ONE God...and smaller Gods...that have power...but less power. I cant prove God to you or anyone else...and im cool with that!! Woo hoo!! indo find it odd that 'athiest' join a religious forum though....if they truly didnt care...or didnt believe AT ALL...they wouldnt be here....at all. Eh?

I have a passion for the beauty within theism and the surrounding real biblical history.

basically I want the truth of what happened in 1600 years of Israelites, focusing on 1200 BC to 400 AD.

I study historical Jesus and am interested in how the gospels were constructed and how they evolved.


Im a little rough sometimes on the outside because I love a good debate, but theist YEC or agnostic or atheist, after a while were all family here.

 

[outhouse]

In their own mind they were not extremists. .

That's not the problem

You placing a label on all of islam is, due to extremist is however.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

indo find it odd that 'athiest' join a religious forum though....if they truly didnt care...or didnt believe AT ALL...they wouldnt be here....at all. Eh?

Lots of atheists here (me as well...lol)
Religion and theism are facts, whether you think God is or not. They have played massive roles in history and continue to impact on the world in substantive ways. So personally whether I believe in God or not is a separate issue to whether I am interested in, and want to understand, religion.

 

[ladybug77]

I have a passion for the beauty within theism and the surrounding real biblical history.

basically I want the truth of what happened in 1600 years of Israelites, focusing on 1200 BC to 400 AD.

I study historical Jesus and am interested in how the gospels were constructed and how they evolved.


Im a little rough sometimes on the outside because I love a good debate, but theist YEC or agnostic or atheist, after a while were all family here.

You sound pretty cool!! Go you! ive stopper trying to prove God though. I realized it was because i was afraid that if they died....they wouldnt go to 'heaven'....it was a strange form of love, and caring in cyberspace. Lol. But im content...and much happier not pushing pushing pushing people one way or another. Its like leading a horse to water that wont drink! Waste of energy! Peace man!

 

[ladybug77]

Lots of atheists here (me as well...lol)
Religion and theism are facts, whether you think God is or not. They have played massive roles in history and continue to impact on the world in substantive ways. So personally whether I believe in God or not is a separate issue to whether I am interested in, and want to understand, religion.

Thats cool. i encourage knowledge. It comes in handy! Thats for sure!

 

[roger1440]

That's not the problem

You placing a label on all of islam is, due to extremist is however.

I’m not lumping all of Islam into one little box. They are probably as different as Christians are different. An example of different views on Christianity would be “David Koresh and the Branch Davidians” and Mother Teresa.

 

[Sonofason]

None. I also have no proof that there isn't an invisible purple dragon sitting on my desk. However, reason dictates that a belief that it exists, is unfounded.

Let's see, how many people believe that there is an invisible purple dragon sitting on your desk?

And

How many people believe that a God exists?

See the difference?

 

[Sonofason]

i notice some people who are 100% convinced there can't be any kind of deity. but how can you be so certain? rather than just not be so sure.
what solid proof do you have there is no chance of there being some kind of deity that maybe you are just not aware of?

I agree. I have had several conversations with certain atheists who were emphatic that no god exists. I can't say they were 100% certain in their belief, but they were so certain that I can safely assume for purposes of this discussion to say that they were 100% certain.

I personally cannot fathom someone being so certain of anything for which there is absolutely no evidence. After all, the only evidence that an atheist can possibly put forth is to claim that they themselves have never seen any actual evidence of God, as if a lack of evidence is evidence of anything. The only reasonable position for a person who lacks evidence of God is the agnostic position.

 

[Sonofason]

I think a more useful approach is to think of something we know is made up and ask what reason we would have to consider a deity more likely than that.

Personally, I would say that a deity is more likely than a made up "something" because I experience God. I have never experienced your made up anything.

Also, there are millions of people in this world who claim, as I do, that they experience the presence of God. How many people claim to experience your made up something?

 

[Sonofason]

None. I also have no proof that there isn't an invisible purple dragon sitting on my desk. However, reason dictates that a belief that it exists, is unfounded.

Please give a few examples of claims that people have made that they have experienced a purple dragon sitting on your desk.

And I will show you a few examples of claims by people who claim that they have experienced God.

 

[Sonofason]

Kloth writes:

But I'm as certain that a theistic god doesn't exist as I am that tiny pink, flying goats don't follow my car when I drive only to disappear when I get out of the car, and for the same reasons.

I highly doubt that. It may be easy for you to state such a claim, but it's a lot harder to believe it.

 

[Sonofason]

I don't BELIEVE there is any deity, i won't deny the possiblity.

I assume that is what you have experienced but not gotten the difference between stating that zero deities exist and not believing in any deity.

As far as i'm concerned, no deities exist, i am not absolutely certain of this but i cannot believe in anything so extraordinary without even so much as a shred of evidence, especially when there are 15 000 of those gods stemming from 100k+ original religions and none of them have any evidence what so ever.

So while i may say "there is no god" what i mean is "i do not believe there is a god".

If you do not believe in a god because you, as you say, do not have so much as a shred of evidence, why do you then believe that there is no god without a shred of evidence?

 

[Sonofason]

But does that necessarily mean that it doesn't exist? Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Maybe I stumbled on the truth by accident.


I think you're misunderstanding my argument. I'm not saying that god-claims are made up; I'm saying that if they don't have any more support than something that's clearly made up, then it's reasonable to treat them as if they don't exist.

Yet, no one claims that invisible purple dragons exist. And millions of people claim that God exists. Can you explain why?

 

[Sonofason]

None taken, let me say here, the same to you and i do that knowing you will take offense.



Ok, well i'm going to make this a two pronged reply, one from my personal view and owe that isn't personal.

Personal: I didn't decide anything what so ever, i just cannot believe in something that is so astounding and for which there exists absolutely no evidence, believe you me i tried but i cannot. For me it's impossible to believe in incredible things entirely without evidence. Like saying that i'm god, why not just believe in that, eh?

General: Why not believe in everything you hear until you have evidence it's false?

Yeah, it doesn't work that way in any other part of your life, does it?

Somehow people have become convinced that a god exists. For some reason, you have not been convinced. Why that is, is a more curious question.

 

[Sonofason]

Your inability to see the difference is the problem.

The fact of the matter is that I do not know if a deity exists or not.
But that is not what I am asked, now is it?

The reason the black and white false dichotomy is a problem is because I am not in either of the two sides presented.
I am in between them.

I have no active belief concerning deities at all.
None
Nada.
Zero
Ziltch.

One wonders why that is such a difficult concept for some people to grasp.

Do you believe it is more likely that a god exists or that a god does not exist? Or are you equally impartial to this question?

 

[Sonofason]

you were insinuating there is no such thing as dragons. i simply proved you wrong, despite how much you must need to be right, and may use denial against that dragons existence.
you can be a self proclaimed winner all you want, and i encourage that for yourself. but if you really want to defeat this topic, then give some proof that a deity doesn't exist. people ask all the time "prove there is a deity or a god" and maybe they can't, but if you believe there is not one because they can't provide suffienct enough proof one does exist, then you should be able to prove your belief there isn't one one then.

see? i simply don't know if there is one or isn't myself, so i have no belief against it or for it. i would like proof from both sides on who do believe or disbelieve.

I have no evidence to show concerning the existence of God other than claims made by real people that God exists. I also have my own claim that God exists. It is my belief that I experience God. Most of the beliefs I have, I have because I have been convinced to believe them. There is no evidence that I am delusional. There is no evidence that I am lying. I assure you I am not. I have never experienced an invisible purple dragon, but I have experienced God. Ask any believer, and he will tell you that he has never experienced invisible purple dragons, but most will tell you that they do experience God. To me, there is a distinct difference between a belief in invisible purple dragons and a belief in God. Do you want to believe in God, if there is an existent God? Then I would suggest following the footsteps of those who believe in God, and those who claim to experience God. Do you want to believe there is no God? Then I would suggest following the footsteps of those who do not believe in God, and those who claim to never experience God.

 

[McBell]

Let's see, how many people believe that there is an invisible purple dragon sitting on your desk?

And

How many people believe that a God exists?

See the difference?

Ah, so when Islam surpasses Christianity in number of followers, YHWH will not longer exist and Allah will begin to exist?

See the difference?

 

[McBell]

I agree. I have had several conversations with certain atheists who were emphatic that no god exists. I can't say they were 100% certain in their belief, but they were so certain that I can safely assume for purposes of this discussion to say that they were 100% certain.

I personally cannot fathom someone being so certain of anything for which there is absolutely no evidence. After all, the only evidence that an atheist can possibly put forth is to claim that they themselves have never seen any actual evidence of God, as if a lack of evidence is evidence of anything. The only reasonable position for a person who lacks evidence of God is the agnostic position.

So you are an agnostic then?
Or are you unreasonable?

remember, YOU set up said dichotomy.