can you proove there isn't a deity?

[outhouse]

Not really, I think that they deified fallen angels. I think they rejected God.

So you don't think the many pagan Canaanite gods were made and defined by the people?

 

[outhouse]

. I think they rejected God.

They factually did not.

Not only that, the term or name god did not exist in their time.

 

[Sonofason]

You have a personal perception, that cannot be claimed outside imagination and different states of consciousness through wishful thinking.

The mind is weak.

Its only your personal opinion you have evidence. Your claims still lie in a supernatural world or state.

That is not completely true. While my perceptions of my own personal experiences could be imagined, there is no reason for me to think that my perceptions are imagined. There is no condition that I can recall where I have believed anything that I have imagined. I see no reason to start doubting myself now. Perhaps wishful thinking is part of it. Indeed, it is said that "faith is the evidence of things hoped for." I can accept that.

Yes, it is my own personal opinion that I have evidence. It is every person's own personal opinion that they have evidence of God as well. I am not alone in this by far.

I do not believe in the supernatural. If something exists, it is quite natural.

 

[Sonofason]

That really isn't acceptable evidence for anyone but you, and thus it is not credible at all.

Try again.


It doesn't match up against the hard physical evidence that man has created deities.

I am certainly trying to convince you that God exists. But I certainly am not obliged to convince you of anything. If I should, that would make me, and you most happy. If I don't, I will only be slightly less content. I am not saying that my experience is credible for you. It is credible for me. And for me, that is all that matters. You are responsible for yourself, and what you believe. I am not responsible for your beliefs.

I have no need to try again, although I'm sure I will at some point.

 

[Sonofason]

So you don't think the many pagan Canaanite gods were made and defined by the people?

No, I think all belief is rooted in various perceptions of truth.

 

[Sonofason]

They factually did not.

Not only that, the term or name god did not exist in their time.

Please show me evidence that no term for the word god existed in their time.

 

[outhouse]

That is not completely true..

It will remain true unless you can pick a specific part out and show me the error of my ways.

there is no reason for me to think that my perceptions are imagined

Nor any reason for anyone else to accept your claim.

I see no reason to start doubting myself now.

I would not want you to change belief or doubt yourself.


That's not what this debate is about. But personal perception is not credible evidence.

I am not alone in this by far.

Doesn't matter how many, that doesn't give it a bit of credibility.

It actually goes against it actually existing, as so many people have perceived something, yet something still doesn't exist in reality with all these witnesses.


All it shows is if we let people use the same exact source, they can build the same type of imaginative entity that it can manifest itself in peoples minds differently.

 

[Sonofason]

It will remain true unless you can pick a specific part out and show me the error of my ways.



Nor any reason for anyone else to accept your claim.




I would not want you to change belief or doubt yourself.


That's not what this debate is about. But personal perception is not credible evidence.



Doesn't matter how many, that doesn't give it a bit of credibility.

It actually goes against it actually existing, as so many people have perceived something, yet something still doesn't exist in reality with all these witnesses.


All it shows is if we let people use the same exact source, they can build the same type of imaginative entity that it can manifest itself in peoples minds differently.

The topic here is "can you prove there isn't a deity". I am under no obligation to prove there is one. I believe, in this thread, since it is you who claims there is no god to prove to everyone that no god exists.

What you desire of me, is of little concern to me. You can call my perception of my experience a lie if you'd like. It would make no difference to the truth.

 

[outhouse]

Please show me evidence that no term for the word god existed in their time.

In the time of Canaanite culture, they named their deities, and gave them different attributes.

The name "god" is something that evolved. Hebrews did not call their deities or deity god.

God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The earliest written form of the Germanic word God (always, in this usage, capitalized[18]) comes from the 6th century Christian Codex Argenteus

So the term god wasn't even used until 600 years after Jesus death.

 

[outhouse]

The topic here is "can you prove there isn't a deity". I am under no obligation to prove there is one. I believe, in this thread, since it is you who claims there is no god to prove to everyone that no god exists.

What you desire of me, is of little concern to me. You can call my perception of my experience a lie if you'd like. It would make no difference to the truth.

I don't think it is a lie.

If I thought I caught you doing that, I would call you on it.

I believe you imagined something, again the mind is weak, and the power of suggestion strong.


If you cannot prove one exit , it is evidence they don't exist.

 

[Sees]

Perceptions of truth but what about power and control as well? It has been, and continues to be, a huge asset in politics and wealth. Could a man in ancient times convince people that he or they are special, that a spirit told him this or that was the goals and truths for their tribe or nation... much in the same way that a good salesman can convince people today to buy over-priced goods?

There is wisdom and truth all over the place from all cultures, but is there not also plenty of rubbish and tricking of the gullible, ignorant masses?

 

[Sonofason]

In the time of Canaanite culture, they named their deities, and gave them different attributes.

The name "god" is something that evolved. Hebrews did not call their deities or deity god.

God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The earliest written form of the Germanic word God (always, in this usage, capitalized[18]) comes from the 6th century Christian Codex Argenteus

So the term god wasn't even used until 600 years after Jesus death.

Please study the Old Testament, which by the way was written in Hebrew.
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃
The word (’ĕ-lō-hîm) is the English transliteration for the Hebrew word אֱלֹהִ֑ים which is translated, in English, as God.

You surely have not proven that there was no term for deities or a deity in ancient times. But I have shown that there was indeed.

 

[Sonofason]

I don't think it is a lie.

If I thought I caught you doing that, I would call you on it.

I believe you imagined something, again the mind is weak, and the power of suggestion strong.


If you cannot prove one exit , it is evidence they don't exist.

The fact that I cannot show you evidence of God is not evidence that God does not exist any more than me not being able to show you an electron is evidence that electrons do not exist. I assure you, I have no evidence of electrons. Everything I know about them I have accepted by faith.

 

[outhouse]

, which by the way was written in Hebrew.
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃
The word (’ĕ-lō-hîm) is the English transliteration for the Hebrew word אֱלֹהִ֑ים which is translated, in English, as God.

You surely have not proven that there was no term for deities or a deity in ancient times. But I have shown that there was indeed.

My point was only that the actual name "god" did not exist. A single god figure did not exist in concept until after 622 BC during king Josiahs reforms to monotheism, then it still took hundreds of years before monotheism took hold nationally.

Elohim has many translations, one of them is the god concept, but again that started after 600 CE

Israelites gods had many names depending on WHICH god they were worshipping.

They factually worshipped a family of deities.

El the father, Yahweh and Baal sons of El. Asherah who was first Els wife then Yahwehs wife.

Please study the Old Testament

That's the problem I have, and I don't see that you know anything at all about it above what they teach in in Sunday school or church.


I back what I post

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[79] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah#cite_note-Smith_2002.2C_p._57-79

 

[outhouse]

Everything I know about them I have accepted by faith.

EXACTLY!

Faith means belief with no evidence at all! :sarcastic


But we have more then faith too describe electrons. WE have pictures of atoms

 

[psychoslice]

The fact that I cannot show you evidence of God is not evidence that God does not exist any more than me not being able to show you an electron is evidence that electrons do not exist. I assure you, I have no evidence of electrons. Everything I know about them I have accepted by faith.

But electrons can be proven.

 

[outhouse]

If a god concept did exist outside mythology, then you would have evidence.

Too date, all evidence points towards man creating all deities ever created.



Why did Israelites only use the Canaanite gods?

 

[Sonofason]

My point was only that the actual name "god" did not exist. A single god figure did not exist in concept until after 622 BC during king Josiahs reforms to monotheism, then it still took hundreds of years before monotheism took hold nationally.

Elohim has many translations, one of them is the god concept, but again that started after 600 CE

Israelites gods had many names depending on WHICH god they were worshipping.

They factually worshipped a family of deities.

El the father, Yahweh and Baal sons of El. Asherah who was first Els wife then Yahwehs wife.




That's the problem I have, and I don't see that you know anything at all about it above what they teach in in Sunday school or church.


I back what I post

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[79] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah#cite_note-Smith_2002.2C_p._57-79

Well, considering that I've never been to a Sunday school, I find your assertion concerning me to be somewhat lacking.

While it is true that the Israel culture meshed with the Canaanite culture, there is no evidence to suggest that belief in YHWH did not exist among the Hebrew people prior to the two cultures coming together.

 

[Sonofason]

But electrons can be proven.

Then prove them to me.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I personally cannot fathom someone being so certain of anything for which there is absolutely no evidence. After all, the only evidence that an atheist can possibly put forth is to claim that they themselves have never seen any actual evidence of God, as if a lack of evidence is evidence of anything. The only reasonable position for a person who lacks evidence of God is the agnostic position.

Couple of quick points I want to make...

1) My view is that there is no way to disprove God. Religions might be disproved due to internal inconsistencies, etc, but it is not possible to disprove God.

2) I considered the question of 'how do I tag myself' in light of this. Am I an agnostic, or am I an atheist? In simple terms, this 'tagging' makes absolutely no difference to my belief, or lack thereof. It is simply a shorthand way of communicating what I believe in relation to theism.

3) Having considered this, and actually not much caring what label I used (since it doesn't effect my belief at all) I decided I was an atheist. It's an umbrella term (think of the diversity inherent in 'theist'!) but it was a more accurate representation of me than 'agnostic'. I have a lack of belief in the existence of Gods. This is atheism. Many would argue that this is in fact agnostic atheism, and I'm fine with that descriptor, agnostic being an admission to no absolute knowledge.