Can you swear that - you're affirm your religion is truth, and will never change to disbelieve it?

[jonathan180iq]

Don't all of the "yes" answers tell you everything you need to know?

Did anyone, when they were adolescents for example, ever make a rigid emotional commitment to something which they later learned was kind of short-sighted?

It's the process of life to grow and adapt. Finding a stationary place in our mental development, and then refusing to move from that place, leads to intellectual atrophy. If that's something to be proud of, or that god requires, then count me out.

 

[Quintessence]

Here was the question posed, which is what I was referring to specifically, as it is the topic of this thread:

Can you swear that - you're affirm your religion is truth, and will never change to disbelieve it?

Yes, i can swear that - i'll never change to disbelieve my religion.

I have a problem with anyone refusing to accept the possibility of being wrong about anything. I think that is a very arrogant stance ... and dangerous too. Being unwilling to change one's beliefs about something is the definition of being "closed-minded".

That is very understandable. However, I don't think that affirming the truths of one's religion necessarily means one refuses to accept the possibility of being wrong or that there are truths in other religions. Additionally, there are plenty of religions that are non-dogmatic and non-creedal (or not faith-based). They allow for changes within their structure, and involve things that are not matters of belief in the first place.

 

[Quintessence]

It's the process of life to grow and adapt. Finding a stationary place in our mental development, and then refusing to move from that place, leads to intellectual atrophy. If that's something to be proud of, or that god requires, then count me out.

It's not, so you'er good. Affirming that a path works for you doesn't mean you don't change it along the way, and there are oodles of things to learn within a particular framework. If one ends up intellectually atrophied, it's because one isn't interested in those things in the first place.

 

[Harmonious]

Here was the question posed, which is what I was referring to specifically, as it is the topic of this thread:

Can you swear that - you're affirm your religion is truth, and will never change to disbelieve it?

Yes, i can swear that - i'll never change to disbelieve my religion.

I have a problem with anyone refusing to accept the possibility of being wrong about anything. I think that is a very arrogant stance ... and dangerous too. Being unwilling to change one's beliefs about something is the definition of being "closed-minded".

Or, it might be that people worked hard to build up our conviction, level of belief, and understanding, such that we would take hold and keep it close to our hearts.

It is true that no one can KNOW for certain, as nothing is absolutely certain about a person until their dying day, but you can bet that we can definitely TRY to maintain what we worked so hard to build, with all our heart, our soul, and our every resource.

We can swear it, affirm it, and mean it. And if we are proved wrong later... We'll burn that bridge, if we should get to it.

 

[leibowde84]

Or, it might be that people worked hard to build up our conviction, level of belief, and understanding, such that we would take hold and keep it close to our hearts.

It is true that no one can KNOW for certain, as nothing is absolutely certain about a person until their dying day, but you can bet that we can definitely TRY to maintain what we worked so hard to build, with all our heart, our soul, and our every resource.

We can swear it, affirm it, and mean it. And if we are proved wrong later... We'll burn that bridge, if we should get to it.

Buddy, read what I wrote. I agree with you 100%. I never said anything to the contrary. I was ONLY referring to those people mentioned in the OP that are unwilling to even consider the possibility that their beliefs could be wrong, no matter what evidence they were faced with. You do not agree with this according to your last statement.

 

[leibowde84]

That is very understandable. However, I don't think that affirming the truths of one's religion necessarily means one refuses to accept the possibility of being wrong or that there are truths in other religions. Additionally, there are plenty of religions that are non-dogmatic and non-creedal (or not faith-based). They allow for changes within their structure, and involve things that are not matters of belief in the first place.

Every single religious BELIEF could be wrong. Now, things like "the Golden Rule", morality, generosity ... these are not religious beliefs, per se, they are societal feelings that promote the benefit of communities in general. But, when it comes to any supernatural belief, the chance of being wrong is always present.

I was only speaking to those mentioned in the OP who would be unwilling to abandon their BELIEF that there religion is "TRUTH". Not partly true. Not some of it is true and some of it is myth. That the religion in general is nothing but "truth".

 

[leibowde84]

Peace be on you.
By the grace of Allah the Exalted, YES TO BOTH PARTS, seeking His help always. Aameen.

So, you are not open to any possibility that your religious beliefs might possibly be wrong?

 

[atpollard]

So, you are not open to any possibility that your religious beliefs might possibly be wrong?

I think that one might grant Islam (where apostasy is a capital offense in most sects) and Judaism (where their religion is a cultural birthright) the benefit of the doubt when they answer 'yes'.
They do seem to be playing by a slightly different set of rules than most other religions.

 

[Harmonious]

Buddy, read what I wrote. I agree with you 100%. I never said anything to the contrary. I was ONLY referring to those people mentioned in the OP that are unwilling to even consider the possibility that their beliefs could be wrong, no matter what evidence they were faced with. You do not agree with this according to your last statement.

But that's the thing. If you have spent a great deal of time learning and growing (I'm not talking about people who sort of inherited a belief and never took the time to think about it critically, but people who - whether inherited or started from scratch - think things through and make an effort to learn and grow), you can SWEAR that you mean it, and will never change.

The idea that people might end up breaking that vow, promise, or whatever, doesn't change the sincerity of the folks who say it and mean it.

 

[Harmonious]

I think that one might grant Islam (where apostasy is a capital offense in most sects) and Judaism (where their religion is a cultural birthright) the benefit of the doubt when they answer 'yes'.
They do seem to be playing by a slightly different set of rules than most other religions.

To be honest, apostasy was a capital offense in various forms of Christianity as well. Just not this century.

After all, that WAS the purpose of the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Moishe3rd]

To be honest, apostasy was a capital offense in various forms of Christianity as well. Just not this century.

After all, that WAS the purpose of the Spanish Inquisition.

Yes, but NO ONE expects the ISIS Inquisition!

 

[Harmonious]

Yes, but NO ONE expects the ISIS Inquisition!

Nice. Between Monty Python and Mel Brooks... Yeah.

 

[atpollard]

To be honest, apostasy was a capital offense in various forms of Christianity as well. Just not this century.
After all, that WAS the purpose of the Spanish Inquisition.

Without a doubt, NOT Christianity's finest hour.

 

[Harmonious]

Without a doubt, NOT Christianity's finest hour.

My point was not to make you feel bad, but to think before casting aspersions on a different religion where the zealous are up to "convert or die" actions, and claiming that one's religion has the moral high road because it's not popular to kill folks in the name of one's religion this century.

It's the same actions, just different times. As we see that people of the same religion as those slaughtering others for not being the same managed to move beyond that stage, remember that this, too, is a phase. It's all about power, not even religion.

If it were, then it would make no sense for Muslims to kill other Muslims in the name of Allah. For that same token, remember what the 100 Years War was about, and it makes about the same amount of sense.

It's not about religion. It's about politics and social control, and violence is being done in the NAME of religion.

 

[atpollard]

My point was not to make you feel bad, but to think before casting aspersions on a different religion where the zealous are up to "convert or die" actions, and claiming that one's religion has the moral high road because it's not popular to kill folks in the name of one's religion this century.
It's the same actions, just different times. As we see that people of the same religion as those slaughtering others for not being the same managed to move beyond that stage, remember that this, too, is a phase. It's all about power, not even religion.
If it were, then it would make no sense for Muslims to kill other Muslims in the name of Allah. For that same token, remember what the 100 Years War was about, and it makes about the same amount of sense.
It's not about religion. It's about politics and social control, and violence is being done in the NAME of religion.

I apologize if it came across as moral elitism.
I communicated poorly.

I was born Italian American.
It would be a very big deal for me to renounce all trace of my Italian American cultural baggage and embrace an inner Afrikaner culture.
Judaism is similarly tied to more than a religious belief, it is often part of a cultural identity as well ... so leaving Judaism to embrace Buddhism (just to give someone other than Christians a fair mention) is much harder than leaving the Baptist Church to embrace Buddhism.
So I am inclined to give members of Judaism the benefit of the doubt when they say that they would never consider changing their faith.

Likewise, I know of few (bordering on none) worldly Muslims (as in a Muslim in name, but not really practicing their faith except on Muslim holidays).
My limited experience (in total numbers, but spanning three continents) indicates that Islam is the center of most Muslims lives ... health care, jobs, social network ... and even the most progressive Muslims are likely to completely cut off a Muslim apostate.
There are MANY Muslims who believe that a former Muslim should be killed.
So leaving Islam is more like leaving Judaism than leaving the Baptist Church.
So I am inclined to give members of Islam the benefit of the doubt when they say that they would never consider changing their faith.

I know Christians from/in China and the Maldives.
Joining Christianity cost them a great deal.
Remaining Christian carries criminal risks (and worse).
So I would be inclined to give those Christians the same benefit of the doubt when they say that they would never consider changing their faith.

 

[Curious George]

A long time ago I came to the realization that if I had absolute proof regarding the truth of a specific religion there would be many who simply refused absolute truth, preferring instead their delusions.

Whether you worked hard or not, whether the building of your faith or lack thereof is socialized or self developed, saying that you would never change your belief includes the possibility of when confronted with an absolute proof to the contrary of your beliefs. While I find the poll results unfortunate, they only confirm what most of us already know. But at least many are willing to admit it. I suspect many more would cling to delusions in the face of absolute proof but are not willing to acknowledge that they are not "open-minded" for doing so would damage ego.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I swear By Him who sent Muhammad pbuh with Truth that Allah swt made islam manifestation of the Truth.


8:8
to topin surah

That He should establish the truth and abolish falsehood, even if the criminals disliked it.



17:81
to topin surah

And say, "Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart."


I hope and want to leave this world in state of belief.

 

[Harmonious]

I apologize if it came across as moral elitism.
I communicated poorly.

There are times when tone of voice and hand gestures would help transmitting thoughts online. The post before I mentioned the Spanish Inquisition seems to have been one of them.

 

[Pudding]

I am an advaitist (i.e., I believe in one entity constituting all things in the universe (this entity is not God, but physical energy). I will have to change my views if science proves that the universe arose from 'absolute nothing'.

Can you explain your understanding of the definition of 'religion' ?

 

[JoStories]

Honestly, I cannot understand how anyone could be so arrogant to answer "yes" to this question. No matter how strong your faith is, you should always keep an open mind about everything. Limiting knowledge to only that which lines up with your already held beliefs is extremely detrimental. Everyone should be open to the fact that their beliefs could be wrong.

Beautifully said Leibovitz! I can't say yes because who the hell knows? And I have a wide open mind my friend.