Can you Unravel the Mystery?

[3rdAngel]

Are you following? I wasn't talking to you.

Apologies.. to you. My bad I thought that post was for me.

 

[nPeace]

Probably. The Roman Catholic Church fits all the characteristics of the little Horn of Daniel 7 and the only power to do so.

If you want to believe that, that's up to you.

I am sure you did. I posted the links that you said were non-existent in your earlier post (e.g. Wiki linked; Brill linked; Great Empires of Prophecy linked; Daniel and Bible Prophecy linked; Bible.org linked; Jewish literature linked. There is too many to list here.

I'm sure you are mistaken.
In your long post, which is what I responded to, there are two links - 2. None of which have anything to do with the statement I referred to.

Nonsense. Evert link does.

No. If I made a statement about pigs, posted no links about pigs, Then later, I spoke about grass, and posted a link on grass. That link has nothing to do with pigs... which is what I am interested in.
Your links did not support your claim.

You were earlier unless I misunderstood what you were saying.

Of course, the latter... clearly. ...and for the most part.

Which was not relevant to Daniel's Little Horn power the Romans Catholic Church that comes out of the 4th Beast (Roman Empire).

You didn't only mention the little horn, so it was relevant to something you said.

I do.

...and other things. Doesn't mean you are correct.

The little Horn (Romans Catholic Church) of Daniel 7 comes out of the fourth beast (Roman Empire). Your numbers are already way off in Daniel.

Not according to scripture. John agrees with me. Five world powers preceded Rome - the sixth.
Rome is the sixth power. If not, John is wrong, the angel is wrong, and Jesus is wrong.... and I'm sure you would not say that.
So,...

Because the Little Horn (Roman Catholic Church) comes out of the 4th Beast (Roman Empire).

You asserted that before. So how can it be relevant, if it's only repeating a claim?

Thank you. I was never saying the first Kingdom of literal Babylon was the Roman Catholic Church. Spiritual Mystery Babylon of Revelation 17 however definitely represents the Roman Catholic Church as does the Little Horn of Daniel 7.

That's not relevant to what I was saying in response to what you were saying.... which is not what you are saying here.
You didn't only say one thing. I was addressing everything you said... and not saying that you said the first Kingdom of literal Babylon was the Roman Catholic Church. ???
Are you following what I am responding to?

I did indeed read your post and covered what you said section by section.

You didn't. No.

You were trying to argue something I was not even talking about in reference to the first Beast of Daniel therefore what you posted was not relevant to what you were responding to. I was never arguing there was other world empires before Babylon. I was only making the point that the four beasts of Daniel start with Babylon which was the world ruling power at the time the Jews went into captivity that Daniel was living in. Can you Unravel the Mystery?

I was not trying to argue anything. I made a point - which was relevant.
The fact it came up here, proves its relevance.
You cannot dismiss the powers prior to Babylon, if you are considering scriptures in relation to Revelation.

No it does not. Britain did not come out of the Roman Empire.

Yes it did.
The links I provided show that it did.

Take Care.

You as well.

 

[nPeace]

Apologies.. to you. My bad I thought that post was for me.

That would explain why you don't know what I am responding to.

 

[3rdAngel]

Where does the scriptures say that any horn is religious? Horns were representative of ruling kings and kingdoms... in context. In the said book of Daniel, we read... Daniel 8: 20 “The two-horned ram that you saw stands for the kings of Meʹdi·a and Persia. 21 The hairy male goat stands for the king of Greece; and the great horn that was between its eyes stands for the first king. 22 As for the horn that was broken, so that four stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from his nation that will stand up, but not with his power. (Revelation 17:12) . . .The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings . . . Do you know of any scriptures that actually referenced horns of beasts to religious entities?

Your question is not a very hard one to answer. Of the little horn it is nothing like any of the others. Scripture states it is different. The little horn is described in the scriptures as follows...

• 1. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast of (Daniel 7:7-8)
• 2. The little horn is different from the other horns being more stout and having eyes and a mouth speaking great things (Daniel 7:20; 24)
• 3. The little horn makes war with the saints (Daniel 7:21)
• 4. The little horn comes up after the other horns (kings) three kings are uprooted on its rise to power. (Daniel 7:24)
• 5. The little horn speaks great things against the most high God (religious power) (Daniel 7:25)
• 6. The little horn speaking great things against God thinks to change times and law (Daniel 7:25)
• 7. The little horn wars and wears out the saints of the most high God (Daniel 7:21-25)

So as can be shown from the scriptures above the little horn is comes up after the other kings and is different from all the kings before it and not the same as the other kings having eyes and a mouth and religious characteristics speaking great things against God, thinking to change times and laws and wearing out the Saints of the most high God. Now you tell me where it says in scripture that the little horn does not have any religious characteristics!

Why must the little horn be a Roman power?

Read the scriptures. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast (Roman Empire) of Daniel 7:7-8

The angel did not tell you that, so of course, this is your own belief. We cannot verify these speculations.

There was no speculations. Go back to Daniel 2 with the Roman Empire being the two legs of iron of the statue of man (eastern and western Roman empire)

Which historians are these, and why does their opinion find favor with you?

Edward Gibbons; Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and many more. Go do your homework.

The Heruli - With their last kingdom eventually dominated by Rome, and smaller groups integrated into larger political entities, the Heruli disappeared from history around the time of the conquest of Italy by the Lombards.

If the little horn is the RCC, she did not pluck up the Heruli.
The Lombards were a Germanic people.

The Vandals - Their kingdom collapsed in the Vandalic War of 533–34, in which Emperor Justinian I's forces reconquered the province for the Eastern Roman Empire.
it became important to the Roman Empire to destroy the Vandal kingdom.
The Vandals' kingdom was ended by the Byzantine Empire. Not the RCC.

The Ostrogoths - [The Byzantine Emperor Justinian declared] war on the Ostrogoths in 535, in an effort to restore the former western provinces of the Roman Empire. Initially, the Byzantines were successful, but under the leadership of Totila, the Goths reconquered most of the lost territory until Totila's death at the Battle of Taginae. The war lasted almost 21 years and caused enormous damage across Italy, reducing the population of the peninsula. Any remaining Ostrogoths in Italy were absorbed into the Lombards, who established a kingdom in Italy in 568.


All these were conquered by the Roman Empire, as it sought to reclaim territory held by Germanic tribes.
The Roman Empire wiped out most of these tribes - not just three, as it crushed what was in its path.
We still do not see the RCC's involvement.

The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots (7:8).
That's what you said.

You are not understanding what has been shared with you and are misrepresenting what is being said to you. According to the scriptures the little Horn was to rise to power after the 10 kings of the Roman Empire. On its rise to power three kings will be uprooted. I never said to you that the Roman Catholic Church would be doing the uprooting only that the uprooting would be talking place on as the little horn rises to power which is what scripture says in Daniel 7. By this time the Roman empire was divided into two and included the Western and Eastern Roman Empire (two legs of Daniel 2) being the western and eastern Roman empire. The Western Roman Empire during the rising of the little Horn (RCC) was being overrun by the Barbarian tribes who took control.

In Horae Apocalypticae, the historian Elliott provided two lists of the ten nations into which the Western Roman Empire disintegrated. His second list stated these ten to be the Alemanni, Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Burgundians, Visigoths, Suevi, Ostrogoths, Heruli, Bavarians and the Vandals. In his first list Elliott had substituted the Lombards for the Bavarians. A study of Gibbon’s classic Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire indicates that the Lombards hold the rightful place in the ten.

In 538 the emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire, Justinian, bestowed the title of Universal Bishop upon Pope Vigilius. The popes, by an act of self-appropriation, had long before taken the religio-political title of Pontifex Maximus after Emperor Gratian ceased to use that imperial title in 375. History must also testify to the identity of the three horns (kingdoms) that would be uprooted at the time of the rise of the papal power.

Odovacar, the Heruli leader, had, only sixty-two years before 538, unseated the last emperor of the Western Roman Empire in 476.This led to the fall of that mighty empire. At this pinnacle of power Odovacar had extended his nation into a domain where Emperor Zeno of the Eastern Roman Empire would tolerate no more usurpation of Imperial power by the Heruli. There is also a case that can be made here for the Visigoths in place of the Heruli that would still fulfill the prophetic prediction. The Franks converted to Roman Catholicism with the baptism of Clovis, and destroyed the Visigoth kingdom in Aquitaine, by 507 and 508 but we have not got time to discuss that here as it would be too time consuming.

Emperor Zeno commissioned Theodoric, the king of the Ostrogoths, to deal with this Herulian affront to the Empire. Theodoric needed no urging from Zeno for he, too, was envious of Odovacar’s success. Zeno’s command was motivated by a second consideration. The Ostrogoths then occupied territory close to Constantinople and the Emperor hoped that by this military distraction he could ease the pressure he received from the powerful Ostrogoths.

Justinian became Emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire in 527. A man of religious inclinations, he instituted "holy" wars against the Vandals and the Ostrogoths, the latter of which were then in control of Rome. Procopius, Justinian’s campaign historian revealed that Justinian’s motivation was to "protect the Christians." By Christians he meant Catholics. He was protecting the Catholic faith against Arian invaders. The Arians taught that Christ was altogether human and not divine.

The Vandals were a teutonic race related to the Burgundians and Goths. In 439 the Vandals captured Carthage, the third most significant city in the Roman Empire, and held it until 533. The Vandals in the fifth century became the leading maritime power in the Mediterranean. In 455 their king, Gaiseric, conquered Rome and appropriated its wealth to himself. With the exception of one king, Hilderic, the Vandal rulers were Arians. When Hilderic’s cousin, Gelimer, imprisoned him, Justinian found an excuse to attack. Under Justinian’s general, Belisarius, the Vandals were overthrown in 536. "After this," the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1963 edition, Vol. 22, p. 973, reports, "the Vandals disappeared from history." The second horn had been uprooted just two years prior to Pope Vigilius exercising the title of Universal Bishop which Emperor Justinian had accorded by the words creating him "head of all the holy churches." Another historical work described the demise of the Vandals in the words, they "disappeared as a mist" (C. W. Previté-Orton, Shorter Cambridge Medieval History, 4th edition, University Press 1953, Volume 1, p. 189). But a third horn, the Ostrogoths, held a stranglehold on Italy, the conquest of which they had made at the behest of the Emperor Zeno in destruction of the Heruli tribe. In 538 Justinian’s forces evicted the Ostrogoths from Rome.

At the fall of the Roman Empire in 476, ten kingdoms were established in the Western Roman Empire. However, three of those barbarian kingdoms were Arians which was considered heresy by the newly emerging Catholics. The Eastern Roman Empire reconquered the territory held by the Ostrogoths, Heruli and Vandals which occupied Italy and Northern Africa.

1. Catholic Emperor Zeno arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the destruction of the Heruli in 493.
2. Justinian then sent his best general Belsarius who destroyed the Vandals by 536.
3. Then Belsarius destroyed the Ostrogoths in 538.

The three Arian kingdoms disappeared from world history. They were plucked up in fulfillment of prophecy.

The history paints a different picture, and we still do not see how the RCC fits the little horn, as we noted above.

No it doesn't. See above.

The little horn is indeed different... but it's still a horn. It does not become a woman - religion, in order to be different.
It's still a ruling political entity... and Britain is such, with it's ally - America.

The British Empire in 1914
WE may note here briefly the varied nature of the constituents of the British Empire in 1914 which the steamship and railway had brought together. It was and is a quite unique political combination; nothing of the sort has ever existed before.

It will be manifest, therefore, that no single office and no single brain had ever comprehended the British Empire as a whole. It was a mixture of growths and accumulations entirely different from anything that has ever been called an empire before.

In its early stages, Britain fits that description - different from the first ones (Daniel 7:24).
Even as the horn developed, Britain was still a powerful part of it.

The British empire does not fit the descriptions of the little horn of Daniel 7.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

That would explain why you don't know what I am responding to.

Quite the opposite. It shows I address and read post content. Something that you seem to be lacking

 

[3rdAngel]

If you want to believe that, that's up to you.


I'm sure you are mistaken.
In your long post, which is what I responded to, there are two links - 2. None of which have anything to do with the statement I referred to.


No. If I made a statement about pigs, posted no links about pigs, Then later, I spoke about grass, and posted a link on grass. That link has nothing to do with pigs... which is what I am interested in.
Your links did not support your claim.


Of course, the latter... clearly. ...and for the most part.


You didn't only mention the little horn, so it was relevant to something you said.


...and other things. Doesn't mean you are correct.


Not according to scripture. John agrees with me. Five world powers preceded Rome - the sixth.
Rome is the sixth power. If not, John is wrong, the angel is wrong, and Jesus is wrong.... and I'm sure you would not say that.
So,...


You asserted that before. So how can it be relevant, if it's only repeating a claim?


That's not relevant to what I was saying in response to what you were saying.... which is not what you are saying here.
You didn't only say one thing. I was addressing everything you said... and not saying that you said the first Kingdom of literal Babylon was the Roman Catholic Church. ???
Are you following what I am responding to?


You didn't. No.


I was not trying to argue anything. I made a point - which was relevant.
The fact it came up here, proves its relevance.
You cannot dismiss the powers prior to Babylon, if you are considering scriptures in relation to Revelation.


Yes it did.
The links I provided show that it did.


You as well.

Well it looks like you did not take any time to address anything that was said to you in the post you are responding to. So please forgive me but I do not believe the comments you have made in this post as proven already in earlier posts from both scripture and history which I believe is in disagreement with you. This will be my last post here. Thanks for the discussion though. I hope only the best for you.

Take care.

 

[2ndpillar]

See my previous post.
Which 5 had fallen when John wrote?

Revelation was written during the period of the 6th head of the beast, which would be under the rulership of the Augustus Caesars, the new emperors, the "revived" Caesar. The previous ruler, the 5th, would have been the dictator Julius Caesar, elected Pontifex Maximus in 63 B.C., the "other horn", the "beast" of Revelation 13:5, who ruled for 42 months between the time he crossed the Rubicon until he was slain (Rev 13:3) by Brutus and his fellow Senators. The 4th head would have been the Roman Republic which crushed the previous kingdoms (Dan 7:19). We are now in the era of the 8th head of the beast (Rev 17:11), which is represented by the iron (Rome)(the beast/king/Julius Caesar/dictator, that "was", and the clay (Muslims/Edom/Petra (Islam)) and having 10 horns/kings (Caesar (Mussolini)/Kaiser/Czar/dictator, etc), who would receive "authority" for "one hour".

 

[2ndpillar]

Because the Little Horn (Roman Catholic Church) comes out of the 4th Beast (Roman Empire).

The "Catholic church" comes out of the doctrines set by 7th head of the beast, Constantine, who follows, "arise after them", the 6th head of the beast (the 10 Augustus Caesars who ruled during the time of the book of Revelation writing) per Daniel 7:24-25, with respect to the destructions of Jerusalem. The doctrines are the same for the Protestants, with the same "abominations". Like mother, like daughter. They all bear the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine, and will therefore apparently drink from the "cup of His Anger" (Rev 14:10).

Daniel 7:24‘As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25‘He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

 

[nPeace]

Your question is not a very hard one to answer. Of the little horn it is nothing like any of the others. Scripture states it is different. The little horn is described in the scriptures as follows...

• 1. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast of (Daniel 7:7-8)
• 2. The little horn is different from the other horns being more stout and having eyes and a mouth speaking great things (Daniel 7:20; 24)
• 3. The little horn makes war with the saints (Daniel 7:21)
• 4. The little horn comes up after the other horns (kings) three kings are uprooted on its rise to power. (Daniel 7:24)
• 5. The little horn speaks great things against the most high God (religious power) (Daniel 7:25)
• 6. The little horn speaking great things against God thinks to change times and law (Daniel 7:25)
• 7. The little horn wars and wears out the saints of the most high God (Daniel 7:21-25)

So as can be shown from the scriptures above the little horn is comes up after the other kings and is different from all the kings before it and not the same as the other kings having eyes and a mouth and religious characteristics speaking great things against God, thinking to change times and laws and wearing out the Saints of the most high God. Now you tell me where it says in scripture that the little horn does not have any religious characteristics!

So, no scripture in the Bible ever says that a horn is religious.

Read the scriptures. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast (Roman Empire) of Daniel 7:7-8

So the ten horns must be Roman powers, from your reasoning. ...but you identified them as Germanic tribes. - the Heruli; the Vandals; the Ostrogoths.
How can that be?

There was no speculations. Go back to Daniel 2 with the Roman Empire being the two legs of iron of the statue of man (eastern and western Roman empire)

See. Your speculation. That's the reason for the parentheses.

Edward Gibbons; Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and many more. Go do your homework.

If you don't know why you favor his opinion, how could I know. That's a failed homework assignment.
Only you can answer that.

You are not understanding what has been shared with you and are misrepresenting what is being said to you. According to the scriptures the little Horn was to rise to power after the 10 kings of the Roman Empire.

Ten kings of the Roman Empire. So, can you tell me why they are Germanic tribes.
Perhaps it's not a bad thing to give you some homework then. I promise... you can't possibly fail this. Germanic peoples

On its rise to power three kings will be uprooted. I never said to you that the Roman Catholic Church would be doing the uprooting only that the uprooting would be talking place on as the little horn rises to power which is what scripture says in Daniel 7.

Huh? That's new.
You said... The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots (7:8)
However, I'll accept that you are now saying "three kings will be uprooted... not that the little horn will be doing the uprooting".

By the way, I can't misrepresent what you say, if you say something, but have something else in mind. I can't read minds, okay.

By this time the Roman empire was divided into two and included the Western and Eastern Roman Empire (two legs of Daniel 2) being the western and eastern Roman empire. The Western Roman Empire during the rising of the little Horn (RCC) was being overrun by the Barbarian tribes who took control.

Whoa. None of that is actually scripture. You are simply stating what you believe. Not what scripture says.
Actually, you are also going outside scripture, to try to sync your belief with it. That doesn't work.

Note:
Daniel 7:7 ...a fourth beast, fearsome and terrifying and unusually strong, and it had large iron teeth.
The beast is one. Nothing describes it as two parts. Unlike the times when the angel specifically mentioned the horns signifying two kings or kingdoms.

In Horae Apocalypticae, the historian Elliott provided two lists of the ten nations into which the Western Roman Empire disintegrated. His second list stated these ten to be the Alemanni, Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Burgundians, Visigoths, Suevi, Ostrogoths, Heruli, Bavarians and the Vandals. In his first list Elliott had substituted the Lombards for the Bavarians. A study of Gibbon’s classic Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire indicates that the Lombards hold the rightful place in the ten.

In 538 the emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire, Justinian, bestowed the title of Universal Bishop upon Pope Vigilius. The popes, by an act of self-appropriation, had long before taken the religio-political title of Pontifex Maximus after Emperor Gratian ceased to use that imperial title in 375. History must also testify to the identity of the three horns (kingdoms) that would be uprooted at the time of the rise of the papal power.

Odovacar, the Heruli leader, had, only sixty-two years before 538, unseated the last emperor of the Western Roman Empire in 476.This led to the fall of that mighty empire. At this pinnacle of power Odovacar had extended his nation into a domain where Emperor Zeno of the Eastern Roman Empire would tolerate no more usurpation of Imperial power by the Heruli. There is also a case that can be made here for the Visigoths in place of the Heruli that would still fulfill the prophetic prediction. The Franks converted to Roman Catholicism with the baptism of Clovis, and destroyed the Visigoth kingdom in Aquitaine, by 507 and 508 but we have not got time to discuss that here as it would be too time consuming.

Emperor Zeno commissioned Theodoric, the king of the Ostrogoths, to deal with this Herulian affront to the Empire. Theodoric needed no urging from Zeno for he, too, was envious of Odovacar’s success. Zeno’s command was motivated by a second consideration. The Ostrogoths then occupied territory close to Constantinople and the Emperor hoped that by this military distraction he could ease the pressure he received from the powerful Ostrogoths.

Justinian became Emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire in 527. A man of religious inclinations, he instituted "holy" wars against the Vandals and the Ostrogoths, the latter of which were then in control of Rome. Procopius, Justinian’s campaign historian revealed that Justinian’s motivation was to "protect the Christians." By Christians he meant Catholics. He was protecting the Catholic faith against Arian invaders. The Arians taught that Christ was altogether human and not divine.

The Vandals were a teutonic race related to the Burgundians and Goths. In 439 the Vandals captured Carthage, the third most significant city in the Roman Empire, and held it until 533. The Vandals in the fifth century became the leading maritime power in the Mediterranean. In 455 their king, Gaiseric, conquered Rome and appropriated its wealth to himself. With the exception of one king, Hilderic, the Vandal rulers were Arians. When Hilderic’s cousin, Gelimer, imprisoned him, Justinian found an excuse to attack. Under Justinian’s general, Belisarius, the Vandals were overthrown in 536. "After this," the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1963 edition, Vol. 22, p. 973, reports, "the Vandals disappeared from history." The second horn had been uprooted just two years prior to Pope Vigilius exercising the title of Universal Bishop which Emperor Justinian had accorded by the words creating him "head of all the holy churches." Another historical work described the demise of the Vandals in the words, they "disappeared as a mist" (C. W. Previté-Orton, Shorter Cambridge Medieval History, 4th edition, University Press 1953, Volume 1, p. 189). But a third horn, the Ostrogoths, held a stranglehold on Italy, the conquest of which they had made at the behest of the Emperor Zeno in destruction of the Heruli tribe. In 538 Justinian’s forces evicted the Ostrogoths from Rome.

At the fall of the Roman Empire in 476, ten kingdoms were established in the Western Roman Empire. However, three of those barbarian kingdoms were Arians which was considered heresy by the newly emerging Catholics. The Eastern Roman Empire reconquered the territory held by the Ostrogoths, Heruli and Vandals which occupied Italy and Northern Africa.

1. Catholic Emperor Zeno arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the destruction of the Heruli in 493.
2. Justinian then sent his best general Belsarius who destroyed the Vandals by 536.
3. Then Belsarius destroyed the Ostrogoths in 538.

The three Arian kingdoms disappeared from world history. They were plucked up in fulfillment of prophecy.

Thank you.
So, please explain how they conquered Rome, and yet are kings of the fourth beast - the Roman Empire?
How do they come out of Rome, and how does the little horn come out of Rome?

No it doesn't. See above.

I read through. Waiting for an explanation to a few questions.

The British empire does not fit the descriptions of the little horn of Daniel 7.

Please explain why you say it doesn't.

Take Care.

...and you.

 

[nPeace]

Quite the opposite. It shows I address and read post content. Something that you seem to be lacking

The evidence shows that you do not know what I am responding to. Otherwise, you would know what I am responding to.

 

[nPeace]

Well it looks like you did not take any time to address anything that was said to you in the post you are responding to.

To the contrary, it looks like I did.

So please forgive me but I do not believe the comments you have made in this post as proven already in earlier posts from both scripture and history which I believe is in disagreement with you.

I'm very forgiving.
You have proven nothing from scripture and history though, so please forgive me for not saying that you did.
To agree with that would be to lie, big time... and you wouldn't want me to lie, would you.

This will be my last post here. Thanks for the discussion though. I hope only the best for you.

Take care.

Understandably so.
Be seeing you.

 

[nPeace]

Revelation was written during the period of the 6th head of the beast, which would be under the rulership of the Augustus Caesars, the new emperors, the "revived" Caesar. The previous ruler, the 5th, would have been the dictator Julius Caesar, elected Pontifex Maximus in 63 B.C., the "other horn", the "beast" of Revelation 13:5, who ruled for 42 months between the time he crossed the Rubicon until he was slain (Rev 13:3) by Brutus and his fellow Senators. The 4th head would have been the Roman Republic which crushed the previous kingdoms (Dan 7:19). We are now in the era of the 8th head of the beast (Rev 17:11), which is represented by the iron (Rome)(the beast/king/Julius Caesar/dictator, that "was", and the clay (Muslims/Edom/Petra (Islam)) and having 10 horns/kings (Caesar (Mussolini)/Kaiser/Czar/dictator, etc), who would receive "authority" for "one hour".

So let me get this straight... You are saying that the angel forgot to tell us that the 7th world power will be Rome as well.
Revelation 17:
9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Babylon is a pagan Goddess.

These you wrote

• the great prostitute
• sitting on many waters,
• committed sexual immorality with the kings of the earth
• making earth’s inhabitants drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality
• sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast
• clothed in purple and scarlet
• adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls
• having in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality
• the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth
• drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus
• the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth

are all true.

Isn't she a great Goddess?

So you're a Satanist now. Figures, since you constantly spew hatred towards Christianity and Christians (and LGBT people).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A pagan Goddess.

Nope. Nothing to do with any pre-Christian deity or indigenous folkway. Literally the only time some goddess called Babylon (or Babalon, as in Thelema) is mentioned, it's in Satanism. It's a deity worshipped by hardcore Satanists as in the Order of Nine Angles (ONA/O9A).

 

[3rdAngel]

So, no scripture in the Bible ever says that a horn is religious.

I was not going to respond anymore but your misrepresenting what I posted to you or have a misunderstanding so posting this for further clarification for you in case you have a misunderstanding. Read the post you are responding to. As posted earlier the scriptures state that the little horn is a civil and religious power.

• 1. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast of (Daniel 7:7-8)
• 2. The little horn is different from the other horns being more stout and having eyes and a mouth speaking great things (Daniel 7:20; 24)
• 3. The little horn makes war with the saints (Daniel 7:21)
• 4. The little horn comes up after the other horns (kings) three kings are uprooted on its rise to power. (Daniel 7:24)
• 5. The little horn speaks great things against the most high God (religious power) (Daniel 7:25)
• 6. The little horn speaking great thinks against God thinks to change times and law (Daniel 7:25)
• 7. The little horn wars and wears out the saints of the most high God (Daniel 7:21-25)

So as can be shown from the scriptures above the little horn is comes up after the other kings and is different from all the kings before it and not the same as the other kings having eyes and a mouth and religious characteristics speaking great things against God, thinking to change times and laws and wearing out the Saints of the most high God. Now you tell me where it says in scripture that the little horn does not have any religious characteristics! Where does it say in the scriptures that the little horn is the same as every other civil power? It doesn't and there is no scripture to support your claim.

So the ten horns must be Roman powers, from your reasoning. ...but you identified them as Germanic tribes. - the Heruli; the Vandals; the Ostrogoths.
How can that be?

No why? The Roman Catholic Church comes out of the 4th Beast and so the Heruli; the Vandals; the Ostrogoths where did I say they have to be Roman although the Romans Catholic Church is Roman, the Heruli; the Vandals; the Ostrogoths where the Germanic tribes as well as others that helped conquer the Western Roman Empire. Britain does not fit any characteristics of the Little Horn so cannot be the little Horn. I think you missed the point here.

See. Your speculation. That's the reason for the parentheses.

There is no speculation The Western and Eastern split of the Roman Empire fits the two legs of iron in Daniel 2.

If you don't know why you favor his opinion, how could I know. That's a failed homework assignment.Only you can answer that.

Well aren't you the funny one. I quoted hist historical works. If you were reading my posts you would already know that. You are best to get your facts right before posting. It seen you do not know what you are talking about.

Ten kings of the Roman Empire. So, can you tell me why they are Germanic tribes. Perhaps it's not a bad thing to give you some homework then. I promise... you can't possibly fail this. Germanic peoples

Read the post you are responding to. The 10 kings come out of the Roman empire. I never said they were all Roman. You are misrepresenting me again or have misunderstood what I have posted to you.

Huh? That's new.You said... The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots (7:8) However, I'll accept that you are now saying "three kings will be uprooted... not that the little horn will be doing the uprooting".

It is not new at all. Its new to you because you did not understand what was being shared with you earlier. Take your time reading what is posted to you and you will have less problems in the future. You seem to be reading into my posts what I am not saying to you.

By the way, I can't misrepresent what you say, if you say something, but have something else in mind. I can't read minds, okay.

Yes that is ok. Just ask me if you are not sure and I will clarify what I post to you. It is easy to have a misunderstanding. Better to ask for clarification if unsure.

Whoa. None of that is actually scripture. You are simply stating what you believe. Not what scripture says. Actually, you are also going outside scripture, to try to sync your belief with it. That doesn't work. Note: Daniel 7:7 ...a fourth beast, fearsome and terrifying and unusually strong, and it had large iron teeth The beast is one. Nothing describes it as two parts. Unlike the times when the angel specifically mentioned the horns signifying two kings or kingdoms.

Sorry but it is indeed in the scriptures. Daniel 2 dream of the four world ruling powers are the same as those in Daniel 7. The two leg of iron represent the Roman Empire (Western and Eastern).

So, please explain how they conquered Rome, and yet are kings of the fourth beast - the Roman Empire?How do they come out of Rome, and how does the little horn come out of Rome

Why? I never said they conquered Rome. The Germanic tribes however did conquer some parts of the Western Roman Empire go study it for yourself but some of these were taken back by the Eastern Roman Empire as shown in the post you are quoting from (Historical references already cited) during the rise of the little horn (Roman Catholic Church). Therefore these Germanic Tribes came out of the Western Roman Empire and were plucked up and destroyed during the rise of the little Horn (Romans Catholic Church) fulfilling the descriptions of scripture in Daniel 7.

Please explain why you say it doesn't.

Britain does not fulfill all the conditions of the scriptures in Daniel 7 where as the Roman Catholic Church does. If you disagree your welcome to show how Britain fulfills all the scripture characteristics of Daniel 7 if you like? I read your other two posts. They do not need a response as I do not believe anything you have posted there which are just random comments in disagreement which are just your opinion so we will agree to disagree.

 

[2ndpillar]

So let me get this straight... You are saying that the angel forgot to tell us that the 7th world power will be Rome as well.
Revelation 17:
9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.

I am not sure of what you are asking. Everyone knows that the "last" kingdom, the 8th head of the beast (Rev 17:11), is the feet of iron (Rome) mixed with clay (Muslims/Edom (red clay pot)). Before this point you have the legs of iron (Rome) after the "thighs of bronze" (Greece). This would be with respect to the kingdoms which brought judgment down on Judah (Jews), starting with the head of gold, Nebuchadnezzar, and they would be finally crushed all at the same time at the end (Daniel 2:34). The last crushing was the Kaiser combined with the Ottoman empire at the valley of judgment, Megiddo, in 1918, and the crushing/burning of the "harlot" (Rev 17:16) Judah/Jews by the 3rd Reich (3rd Roman empire) of Hiter, a horn of the 8th head of the beast. With respect to the crushing of the Muslims (Edom/red clay) and their Russian (Czar) comrades was at the 1967 & 73 war. After the Greeks, you only have Iron (Rome), and the iron (Rome) mixed with clay bringing judgment onto Judah, and now you have to wait for them all to be crushed all at the "same time". The 4th kingdom of Daniel 7:19 which had 10 horns, of which 3 of them "fell" by way of "the other horn", which is to say the Republic of Rome had its leadership starting with the Triumvirate, being abolished by the dictator Julius Caesar (Daniel 2:20), after which "another" will rise (Constantine) and "wear down the saints" (Jews) by way of Constantine's Roman church, for "time, times, and half a time", until the court will "sit for judgment", and all the "nations"/"kingdoms" will be lured to Jerusalem (Zech 14:1-3) and be crushed all at the same time. The "one that was" during the 6th head (the Augustus Caesars) of the beast ("the one is") was the dictator Julius Caesar, the fifth head, following the reign of the Roman Republic which had crushed Greece and Jerusalem by way of Pompey, a leader of the Triumvirate. Now all you have to wait for is Zech 14:1-2 and Revelation 16:13-16, "Har-Magedon". The "demons" of Rev 16:13 are now hard at work, and "those who dwell on the earth" (Rev 13:14) are truly "deceived", and support dictators/Caesars, such as Putin, Xi, Kim, and our mentally and morally corrupted Biden and his vice president. People get what they vote for, or at least what it appears they voted for. Right now, the time is short, and the leaves are on the tree (Mt 24:32). Your time for figuring it out is waning quickly. As long as one attaches themselves to "lawlessness"/"wickedness", the "message" of the "enemy" (Mt 13:25), such as the false prophet Paul, I wouldn't count on them acquiring "understanding" (Daniel 12:10).

Daniel 2:32“The head of that statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34“You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. 35“Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

 

[2ndpillar]

There is no speculation The Western and Eastern split of the Roman Empire fits the two legs of iron in Daniel 2.

Well, the two thighs of bronze does not represent a two way split of Greece. Greece was finally divided into 3 kingdoms, the 3 generals of Alexander. And by the time of the Roman church was contextualized by Constantine in 325 A.., Constantine had reunited Eastern and Western Rome.

 

[3rdAngel]

Well, the two thighs of bronze does not represent a two way split of Greece. Greece was finally divided into 3 kingdoms, the 3 generals of Alexander. And by the time of the Roman church was contextualized by Constantine in 325 A.., Constantine had reunited Eastern and Western Rome.

Go do your homework. When Alexander suddenly died without an heir, his generals divided the empire into four primary kingdoms (the "four heads"). Ptolemy took Egypt and nearby lands. Seleucus received Syria, Asia Minor and the conquered eastern nations. Lysimachus ruled Thrace and surrounding territories, and lastly, Cassander controlled Macedonia and Greece. Thrace was later absorbed by the Seleucid Empire, and Macedonia's power was checked by the rising power of Rome and the beginning of the end of Greece's empire. Thus, both prophecies in Daniel 2 and 7 speak of the same divided empire, the former showing political and military dominance, as well as prophetic relevance to the Holy Land, and the latter the initial governmental situation after Alexander's death. The belly, a single body part, represents a monolithic government, and the thighs, two body parts, represent the final division of Greece's power before the Roman empire just like the Western and Eastern Roman empire and the rising of the little horn. The Greek Empire, built upon the remains of the Persian Empire by Alexander the Great, began with a single leader. But after Alexander's death in 323 BC , his generals carved out kingdoms of their own. From the resultant wars among them, only two remaining major powers emerged: Ptolemaic Egypt and Seleucid Syria (two thighs).

 

[nPeace]

I was not going to respond anymore but your misrepresenting what I posted to you or have a misunderstanding so posting this for further clarification for you in case you have a misunderstanding. Read the post you are responding to. As posted earlier the scriptures state that the little horn is a civil and religious power.

???

• 1. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast of (Daniel 7:7-8)

Doesn't say the little horn is religious.

• 2. The little horn is different from the other horns being more stout and having eyes and a mouth speaking great things (Daniel 7:20; 24)

Doesn't say the little horn is religious.

• 3. The little horn makes war with the saints (Daniel 7:21)

Doesn't say the little horn is religious.

• 4. The little horn comes up after the other horns (kings) three kings are uprooted on its rise to power. (Daniel 7:24)

Doesn't say the little horn is religious.

• 5. The little horn speaks great things against the most high God (religious power) (Daniel 7:25)

Doesn't say the little horn is religious.

• 6. The little horn speaking great thinks against God thinks to change times and law (Daniel 7:25)

Doesn't say the little horn is religious.

• 7. The little horn wars and wears out the saints of the most high God (Daniel 7:21-25)

Doesn't say the little horn is religious.
Seriously!?

So as can be shown from the scriptures above the little horn is comes up after the other kings and is different from all the kings before it and not the same as the other kings having eyes and a mouth and religious characteristics speaking great things against God, thinking to change times and laws and wearing out the Saints of the most high God.

Religious characteristics?
What's that? Preaching? Talking about God? Praying? ... !?

Now you tell me where it says in scripture that the little horn does not have any religious characteristics!

I showed you. Horns were described by both Gabriel and the angel representing Jesus to John, as kings / kingdoms - not religious / religion.
Women represented religion.... Faithful or unfaithful.

Where does it say in the scriptures that the little horn is the same as every other civil power? It doesn't and there is no scripture to support your claim.

What claim are you referring to?
I made no claim. You are the one making the claim that this horn is religious.
You are the one that cannot back that claim with any scripture, since the Bible never signifies any religion with a horn.
What you are here doing, is using your belief that the horn is religious, to support your belief that the horn is religious. That doesn't work.

No why? The Roman Catholic Church comes out of the 4th Beast and so the Heruli; the Vandals; the Ostrogoths where did I say they have to be Roman although the Romans Catholic Church is Roman, the Heruli; the Vandals; the Ostrogoths where the Germanic tribes as well as others that helped conquer the Western Roman Empire. Britain does not fit any characteristics of the Little Horn so cannot be the little Horn. I think you missed the point here.

That's the point.
Where the ten horn are is the same place the little horn comes from. The beast - Rome.
So, if you are claiming that the little horn must be a Roman power, because it comes from the beast, then to be consistent with that reasoning, the ten horns must also be Roman powers, since they come from the beast - Rome.

However, you have not described the ten horns as Roman powers, but rather Germanic.
Do you get the point?

There is no speculation The Western and Eastern split of the Roman Empire fits the two legs of iron in Daniel 2.

If that's not a speculation, what is it... a theory, or fact?
It certainly isn't a fact. It sounds like a suggestion - one where you speculate that the angel who said nothing about a split, must have indicated a split.

Well aren't you the funny one. I quoted hist historical works. If you were reading my posts you would already know that.

I would know why you favor certain historians opinions by reading your posts, where you never say why you favor these historians opinions?

You are best to get your facts right before posting. It seen you do not know what you are talking about.

What does asking questions which only you can answer, have to do with my not having facts, or have anything to do with my not knowing what I am talking about?

Read the post you are responding to. The 10 kings come out of the Roman empire. I never said they were all Roman.

Exactly my point.

You are misrepresenting me again or have misunderstood what I have posted to you.

Do you consider the slightest possibility that you are misunderstanding me... or having a bit of trouble with what you are saying?
Listen...

The 10 kings come out of the Roman empire. I never said they were all Roman.

The little horn arises from the fourth beast (Daniel 7:8). The fourth beast represents Rome, so the little horn must be a Roman power.

Why must the little horn be a Roman power?

Read the scriptures. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast (Roman Empire) of Daniel 7:7-8

Are you not claiming that the little horn came out of Rome, therefore the little horn must be Roman?
So, are not the ten horns out of Rome... would it not follow the same reasoning - therefore the ten horns must be Roman?

It is not new at all. Its new to you because you did not understand what was being shared with you earlier. Take your time reading what is posted to you and you will have less problems in the future. You seem to be reading into my posts what I am not saying to you.

Ha ha ha.
Here is what I read... The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots (7:8).
The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots (7:8)

The little horn was to...
The little horn was to pluck...
The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns, by the roots.

I did not read that into what you said. I read what you said.
If you had something else in mind besides what you wrote, should you not be thinking about what you want to say, before posting.... and then post what you mean, rather that what you didn't mean?

I mean, it's hard for any reader to see how The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots could be On its rise to power three kings will be uprooted. I never said to you that the Roman Catholic Church would be doing the uprooting only that the uprooting would be talking place on as the little horn rises to power which is what scripture says in Daniel 7.

I'm the funny one here, huh.

Yes that is ok. Just ask me if you are not sure and I will clarify what I post to you.

I was sure what I read was what you wrote.
How am I to know when you write something you aren't thinking?

It is easy to have a misunderstanding. Better to ask for clarification if unsure.

I'm always sure to do that. I mean, we aren't 'kids' here.
I think writing what we mean to say is better than writing something if we don't mean it, but it's also possible to write something we mean, and then realize what we said is not meshing with what's actually correct.
In such a case, the honest and humble thing to do, I think, would be to acknowledge our mistake.

It's like a Chess game - do you play?
Sometimes we move a piece, and just as we take our hand off the piece, we see our mistake.
If the other player isn't looking, we would be tempted to take it back.
In a friendly, we certainly would take it back, with a
So, consider that this is a friendly...
You can take it back.

Sorry but it is indeed in the scriptures. Daniel 2 dream of the four world ruling powers are the same as those in Daniel 7. The two leg of iron represent the Roman Empire (Western and Eastern).
View attachment 76174

Um... No it's not.
Let's demonstrate it.... How many thighs do you have? I hope, two.
Therefore Greece split in two. That's scripture. That was easy, wasn't it?
No. That was ridiculous. I hope you agree... As ridiculous as saying the belly and the thighs mean that there is a spilt North and South. Or...

Why? I never said they conquered Rome. The Germanic tribes however did conquer some parts of the Western Roman Empire go study it for yourself but some of these were taken back by the Eastern Roman Empire as shown in the post you are quoting from (Historical references already cited) during the rise of the little horn (Roman Catholic Church). Therefore these Germanic Tribes came out of the Western Roman Empire and were plucked up and destroyed during the rise of the little Horn (Romans Catholic Church) fulfilling the descriptions of scripture in Daniel 7.

I'm reading what you wrote, and you are saying you never said...
The Vandals were a teutonic race related to the Burgundians and Goths. In 439 the Vandals captured Carthage, the third most significant city in the Roman Empire, and held it until 533. The Vandals in the fifth century became the leading maritime power in the Mediterranean. In 455 their king, Gaiseric, conquered Rome and appropriated its wealth to himself.

Either you don't know what you wrote, or you are writing what you don't mean... and I am getting a headache.

Britain does not fulfill all the conditions of the scriptures in Daniel 7 where as the Roman Catholic Church does. If you disagree your welcome to show how Britain fulfills all the scripture characteristics of Daniel 7 if you like?

I'll certainly do that.
No time to do so now, but definitely I will.
A question in the meantime.... one I asked earlier, but you didn't answer.
Do you consider the Reformers the holy one? If so, why, and which ones in particular?

 

[3rdAngel]

??? Doesn't say the little horn is religious. Doesn't say the little horn is religious. Doesn't say the little horn is religious. Doesn't say the little horn is religious Doesn't say the little horn is religious. Doesn't say the little horn is religious. Doesn't say the little horn is religious.
Seriously!?

You can close your eyes and ears to what scripture says if you want to. Its up to you. I prefer what the scripture says and the scripture says that the little horn..

• 1. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast of (Daniel 7:7-8)
• 2. The little horn is different from the other horns being more stout and having eyes and a mouth speaking great things (Daniel 7:20; 24)
• 3. The little horn makes war with the saints (Daniel 7:21)
• 4. The little horn comes up after the other horns (kings) three kings are uprooted on its rise to power. (Daniel 7:24)
• 5. The little horn speaks great things against the most high God (religious power) (Daniel 7:25)
• 6. The little horn speaking great thinks against God thinks to change times and law (Daniel 7:25)
• 7. The little horn wars and wears out the saints of the most high God (Daniel 7:21-25)

So as can be shown from the scriptures above the little horn is comes up after the other kings and is different from all the kings before it and not the same as the other kings having eyes and a mouth and religious characteristics speaking great things against God, thinking to change times and laws and wearing out the Saints of the most high God. Now you tell me where it says in scripture that the little horn does not have any religious characteristics and is only a civil power? It doesn't and there is no scripture to support your claim.

I showed you. Horns were described by both Gabriel and the angel representing Jesus to John, as kings / kingdoms - not religious / religion.
Women represented religion.... Faithful or unfaithful.

So that is a no then? You have no scripture that says that the little Horn is not a religions and civil power? You have only provided an opinion here. As shown from the scriptures above in Daniel 7:20-25 above the little Horn speaks great things against God, seeks to change times and laws and also makes war with Gods saints.

What claim are you referring to? I made no claim. You are the one making the claim that this horn is religious. You are the one that cannot back that claim with any scripture, since the Bible never signifies any religion with a horn. What you are here doing, is using your belief that the horn is religious, to support your belief that the horn is religious. That doesn't work.

Are you not arguing that the little horn is not religious? If you are prove that it is not religious as well as civil and political. You can't can you because you have no scripture to support that view which is only your opinion. Meanwhile as posted above you have been shown scripture where the little Horn is different from all the other horns. Its not the same and has religious characteristics in that it speaks great things against God, seeks to change times and laws and also persecutes Gods people (Danial 7:1-25).

That's the point. Where the ten horn are is the same place the little horn comes from. The beast - Rome. So, if you are claiming that the little horn must be a Roman power, because it comes from the beast, then to be consistent with that reasoning, the ten horns must also be Roman powers, since they come from the beast - Rome.

Your not listening. I have made no claim to what you are saying here. Your best to read what is being said to you. I thought I made that clear in the whole post you are responding to here. It is you not being consistent because you are misrepresenting what is being shared with you which is why I responded to you again in the last post to you. It seems you still are trying to say things I am not saying again here.

However, you have not described the ten horns as Roman powers, but rather Germanic. Do you get the point?

So? Once again as I have said to you many times earlier now. Where have I ever said to you that the 10 horns have to be Roman powers? Your claiming I am saying things I have never said to you so you are once again misrepresenting what is being shared with you. Once again the ten horns are ten kings that are to arise out of the Roman empire. I have never said to you anywhere that these 10 kings must be Roman powers.

If that's not a speculation, what is it... a theory, or fact? It certainly isn't a fact. It sounds like a suggestion - one where you speculate that the angel who said nothing about a split, must have indicated a split.

No. It is fact supported by both scripture and history. The Western and Eastern split of the Roman Empire fits the two legs of iron description of Daniel 2:31-40.

I would know why you favor certain historians opinions by reading your posts, where you never say why you favor these historians opinions?

Go google the historical works of the historians I quoted they are very well known and respected. I agree though that factual history can be like a lucky dip however and many have tried to re-write it based on bias, religion and politics.

What does asking questions which only you can answer, have to do with my not having facts, or have anything to do with my not knowing what I am talking about?

Asking questions has never been the problems it is making statements unsupported by and facts that is the problem.

Do you consider the slightest possibility that you are misunderstanding me... or having a bit of trouble with what you are saying? Are you not claiming that the little horn came out of Rome, therefore the little horn must be Roman?
Listen...

Once again perhaps you should listen. I said to you that the 10 kings come out of the Roman empire. I never said they were all Roman. The little Horn is Roman.

So, are not the ten horns out of Rome... would it not follow the same reasoning - therefore the ten horns must be Roman?

No see above. This has already been explained to you more than once now.

Ha ha ha.
Here is what I read... The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots (7:8).
The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots (7:8)

The little horn was to...
The little horn was to pluck...
The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns, by the roots.

I did not read that into what you said. I read what you said.
If you had something else in mind besides what you wrote, should you not be thinking about what you want to say, before posting.... and then post what you mean, rather that what you didn't mean?

I mean, it's hard for any reader to see how The little horn was to pluck up three of the first [ten] horns by the roots could be On its rise to power three kings will be uprooted. I never said to you that the Roman Catholic Church would be doing the uprooting only that the uprooting would be talking place on as the little horn rises to power which is what scripture says in Daniel 7.

I'm the funny one here, huh.

Yes you are indeed a funny one. Then we have scripture that is Gods Words that disagree with your words that are not Gods Word....

• Daniel 7:8 (KJV) 8, I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Note the scripture says nothing about the little horn doing the plucking up? You are indeed the funny one.

Um... No it's not. Let's demonstrate it.... How many thighs do you have? I hope, two. Therefore Greece split in two. That's scripture. That was easy, wasn't it? No. That was ridiculous. I hope you agree... As ridiculous as saying the belly and the thighs mean that there is a spilt North and South. Or...

Actually yes it is. I thought it was explained well in the post you are quoting from. Greece in Daniel two is represented as the bronze part of the torso and then moves to the two thighs at the end of its reign and time. For me it fits really well. The belly, a single body part, represents a monolithic government, and the thighs, two body parts, represent the final division of Greece's power before the Roman empire just like the Western and Eastern Roman empire and the rising of the little horn. The Greek Empire, built upon the remains of the Persian Empire by Alexander the Great, began with a single leader. But after Alexander's death in 323 BC , his generals carved out kingdoms of their own. From the resultant wars among them, only two remaining major powers emerged: Ptolemaic Egypt and Seleucid Syria (two thighs). For me that is a good fit but that is academic as we both believe that the third empire here is already Greece right?

I'm reading what you wrote, and you are saying you never said... The Vandals were a teutonic race related to the Burgundians and Goths. In 439 the Vandals captured Carthage, the third most significant city in the Roman Empire, and held it until 533. The Vandals in the fifth century became the leading maritime power in the Mediterranean. In 455 their king, Gaiseric, conquered Rome and appropriated its wealth to himself. Either you don't know what you wrote, or you are writing what you don't mean... and I am getting a headache. I'll certainly do that No time to do so now, but definitely I will. A question in the meantime.... one I asked earlier, but you didn't answer. Do you consider the Reformers the holy one? If so, why, and which ones in particular?

Thanks for asking. Probably a misunderstanding of what you were saying. I thought you were stating that the three destroyed Germanic tribes stayed as Roman conquers. If that was true they could not have been plucked up or destroyed. You might have to explain yourself a little further in regards to the holy one. I am not sure what your saying here.

Take Care.