• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Can you Unravel the Mystery?

101G

Well-Known Member
Why are you asking that question, when the point is about when these events would occur?
The focus is on whether Revelation describes future events only, or past as well. Not whether there are two or three persons.
We don't want to get distracted, or distract from the point.
(smile), the revelation is about ONE PERSON, past, present and future. no problem...

Past, starting with Revelation 12, already happen, the same as for chapter 11, as well as Chapter 10, and backward to 4 present and ongoing.
chapter 13 onward future, and ongoing.

101G.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
(smile), the revelation is about ONE PERSON, past, present and future. no problem...

Past, starting with Revelation 12, already happen, the same as for chapter 11, as well as Chapter 10, and backward to 4 present and ongoing.
chapter 13 onward future, and ongoing.

101G.
No. Not according to scripture.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
What does Revelation 1:1 inform you about that?
Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

101G
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
GINOLJC, to all.

Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

101G
Good. It informs me of that as well.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
how so? Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."

now once more .... "has the Kingdom of God come yet?" .......... (smile).

note: I did not ask if the KINGDOM of Heaven came yet, but the Kingdon of God. now you answer please.

101G.
Luke 17:20 The kingdom of God is within whom?
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Luke 17:20 The kingdom of God is within whom?
GINOLJC, to all.
thanks for the reply, second, the WHO? citizen of the KINGDOM. and citizenship is extended.to all, supportive scripture, Acts 2:37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:40 "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."

so, Who is the KOG within? those who A. Repent, B. and are baptized. or those who are adopted.

101G.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.”
Revelation 17:5​

Notable features
Babylon the Great is described as
  • the great prostitute
  • sitting on many waters,
  • committed sexual immorality with the kings of the earth
  • making earth’s inhabitants drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality
  • sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast
  • clothed in purple and scarlet
  • adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls
  • having in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality
  • the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth
  • drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus
  • the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth

Additional clues to unravel the mystery
  • (Revelation 17:9-13) 9 The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.
  • (Revelation 17:15) . . .“The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.
  • (Revelation 18:3) . . .the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury. . .
  • (Revelation 18:5) . . .her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. . .
  • (Revelation 18:7) . . .she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury. . . she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning. 
  • (Revelation 18:22-23) 22 . . .the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp, of musicians, of flutists, and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again. And no craftsman who practices any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again. 23 No light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; for your merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, and by your spiritistic practices all the nations were misled.

What is the identity of Babylon the Great?
These features, and references leaves us in no doubt! The Mother Harlot, Babylon the Great can be nothing other than religion. Notably, since she has God's displeasure, she has to be false religion. This is supported by the warning God gives... “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. . . (Revelation 18:4-5)

Thus, keeping in consistency with scripture, Babylon the Great represents all religion that is false from God's perspective.
What else can it be, based on scriptural references?
Rome.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Notable features
Babylon the Great is described as
  • the great prostitute
  • sitting on many waters,
  • committed sexual immorality with the kings of the earth
  • making earth’s inhabitants drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality
  • sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast
  • clothed in purple and scarlet
  • adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls
  • having in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality
  • the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth
  • drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus
  • the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth
a few thing that should stand out clear as day
drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus

Matthew 23:34 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:" Matthew 23:35 "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar." Matthew 23:36 "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" Matthew 23:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."Matthew 23:39 "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

101G.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
fine, so what do U see?

101G.

I believe I see that in post #17 you have taken a verse out of context. There may be many references to Jerusalem as an harlot but that does not mean they are referring to the same events. It might indicate a tendency but then that is a tendency of sinful man in general.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world 1 John 4:1

I believe you may not be able to do that unless you have the gift of discerning of spirits and not everyone has that gift. I do.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I believe you may not be able to do that unless you have the gift of discerning of spirits and not everyone has that gift. I do.

Do you have a 2nd witness that can confirm that appraisal? (Matthew 18:16) I am thinking that simply making that statement is hubris on your part, which if Satan takes pity on you, you may receive a pain in the side. I think John's point was that one must compare the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13) versus the message (tare seed) of the "enemy"/"devil" (Matthew 13:38-39). As the "many" (Matthew 7:13) are "deceived" (Revelation 13:11-14), I will refrain from taking your word.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
(smile), the revelation is about ONE PERSON, past, present and future. no problem...

Past, starting with Revelation 12, already happen, the same as for chapter 11, as well as Chapter 10, and backward to 4 present and ongoing.
chapter 13 onward future, and ongoing.

101G.

You must be reading from a different bible. Revelation 11:18, is with regards to the past and future when "Thy wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged". As for Revelation 13, it is both past, present, and future as it refers to the "beast" (Julius Caesar) and the "another beast" (Revelation 13:11), Constantine, in which the "beast", is the 5th head of the beast of Revelation 17, which "was" (Revelation 17:9-11), and "is not" (during the writing of the book of Revelation) and is the 8th, which represents the present and the future. The book of Revelation pertains to all of humanity, which includes (the sons of Israel) (Revelation 7:4), and the nations/Gentiles (Revelations 19:15)
 

101G

Well-Known Member
I believe I see that in post #17 you have taken a verse out of context. There may be many references to Jerusalem as an harlot but that does not mean they are referring to the same events. It might indicate a tendency but then that is a tendency of sinful man in general.
if you believe this, then prove the verse in ERROR, for 101G did not speak it to be written, God did. so take it up with God.

101G
 

101G

Well-Known Member
You must be reading from a different bible. Revelation 11:18, is with regards to the past and future when "Thy wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged". As for Revelation 13, it is both past, present, and future as it refers to the "beast" (Julius Caesar) and the "another beast" (Revelation 13:11), Constantine, in which the "beast", is the 5th head of the beast of Revelation 17, which "was" (Revelation 17:9-11), and "is not" (during the writing of the book of Revelation) and is the 8th, which represents the present and the future. The book of Revelation pertains to all of humanity, which includes (the sons of Israel) (Revelation 7:4), and the nations/Gentiles (Revelations 19:15)
first thanks for the reply, second, during the TIME of the TWO WITNESSES, Revelation 11 through the second woe, was that past present or future.at the revealing of the Revelation. remember there are three woes.

I'll be looking for your answer.

101G.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply, second, during the TIME of the TWO WITNESSES, Revelation 11 through the second woe, was that past present or future.at the revealing of the Revelation. remember there are three woes.

I'll be looking for your answer.

101G.

My response was to your previous note, which referred to Revelation 11 as being with respect to the past, for which Revelation 11:18 is clearly not. And with respect to your previous note, Revelation is about more than "one person". Revelation 11:1-2 runs into the here and now, and the nations/Gentiles are now in the "court which is outside the temple", and "they will tread underfoot the holy city for forty-two months". The 42 months is time, times, and half a time of Daniel 7:25-26, in which the church of Constantine's Rome, the Roman Catholic Church, will "wear down the saints" for that amount of time, until "the court will sit for judgment", and "his dominion will be taken away" (Daniel 7:26). Which is to say that the "Gentile" church of the false prophet Paul and the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, will "fall" (Matthew 7:27), along with Peter's heir, the pope per Isaiah 22:15-25, both of whom are the "two horns like a lamb of the beast", who is the Roman emperor Constantine. Your timing description is more than suspect.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
My response was to your previous note, which referred to Revelation 11 as being with respect to the past, for which Revelation 11:18 is clearly not.
are you sure? Revelation 11:18 "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come". happen already. this is the beginning of the END of sin rule in this world., for the LORD GOD reigns, for he has OVERCOME THE WORLD. he was DEAD, but now LIVES, and his wrath has come.? yes, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." this started after his resurrection, past. Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. "Psalms 110:6 "He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries."

Psalms 99:1 "The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.". the MOVEMENT of Christianity over the EARTH. yes, many are angry, and even NOW, (smile)

Psalms 2:1 "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?" Psalms 2:2 "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying," Psalms 2:3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us." Psalms 2:4 "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." Psalms 2:5 "Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure."
Speak to them, in his wrath? yes, the GOOD NEWS, the Gospel, in a dying world that is in massive trouble, or tribulation. supportive scripture. , Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." this is too easy/

"and the time of the dead, that they should be judged". DEAD in Sins and trespasses. LISTEN and LEARN, Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:31 "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." BINGO, this is just too easy.

"and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great"
first Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.", the reward is the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit who SEALS us unto Salvation, and give/reward us with his GIFTS

"small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.". destroy here means to corrupt, or ruin. Revelation 19:2 "For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

PAST, PAST. also how do 101G know this also, for the two witnesses were the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist, already happen. this is just too easy/

101G.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
are you sure? Revelation 11:18 "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come". happen already. this is the beginning of the END of sin rule in this world., for the LORD GOD reigns, for he has OVERCOME THE WORLD. he was DEAD, but now LIVES, and his wrath has come.? yes, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." this started after his resurrection, past. Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. "Psalms 110:6 "He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries."

Psalms 99:1 "The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.". the MOVEMENT of Christianity over the EARTH. yes, many are angry, and even NOW, (smile)

Psalms 2:1 "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?" Psalms 2:2 "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying," Psalms 2:3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us." Psalms 2:4 "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." Psalms 2:5 "Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure."
Speak to them, in his wrath? yes, the GOOD NEWS, the Gospel, in a dying world that is in massive trouble, or tribulation. supportive scripture. , Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." this is too easy/

"and the time of the dead, that they should be judged". DEAD in Sins and trespasses. LISTEN and LEARN, Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:31 "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." BINGO, this is just too easy.

"and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great"
first Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.", the reward is the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit who SEALS us unto Salvation, and give/reward us with his GIFTS

"small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.". destroy here means to corrupt, or ruin. Revelation 19:2 "For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

PAST, PAST. also how do 101G know this also, for the two witnesses were the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist, already happen. this is just too easy/

101G.

The day of God's wrath, the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32-3:2) has not happened as yet, and the "son of man" (Matthew 24:29-31) does not rule at this time, nor has Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:16), the "valley of judgement" (Joel 3:2), the "great tribulation" happened as of this moment. The daughters of Babylon (Revelation 17:5), the "harlots" still stand, built upon the foundations provided by their harlot mother, the Roman Catholic church, a first order harlot daughter of Babylon. The "beast"/Roman empire on which the "harlot" sits (Revelation 17:3) still exists and is today represented by the horns of the 8th head (Revelation 17:9-11), the Czar of Russia Putin, and the Roman Pontif Maximus, the pope. The "son of man" does not rule on earth, but the "ruler of the world" does. (John 12:31) And while you may suffer from night "visions", apparently that is often a symptom of a leaky gut. I suggest switching to a "natural" diet.
 
Top