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Can you Unravel the Mystery?

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The human truth.

We are mutual equal babies of the first only two human parents.

Same Genesis DNA parents of all humans.

Science machine theists lie and are evil men. Our warning.

Life is holy for humans inside our heavens on rock earth.

Garden nature holy natural.

Animals not human nor owned in any status by humans are holy.

Humans mutual equal.

Men prove by studies thesis just how evil thoughts are.

No human in natural life was ever wrong ..
only machine theists are wrong.

God was mans theism for science reactions.

As humans aren't machines.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
what in the world are you talking about?

101G.
You are doing unnatural machine transmitted experiments on humans.

Claiming transmitters invented biology.

So man with machine says machine is a God. So Now I'm copying how God invented you. All biology. By transmitters metals.

Yet life didn't come out of a machine reaction.

Men don't use maths they use words stories themes to thesis first. Claiming I believe I created you. As men and humans.

As a human and a baby man's human life body. Human man knows it has sex to create a human life. Biology human.

Baby conscious man history says a baby human as myself created the adult human life is ignored.

Proving theists have lost use of a conscious mind.

You give permission to a human self then agreed by a group. In thesis terms.

You place an alien in various different not even the same themes. Claiming why you think evil created life of the human from images built upon as a calculus by O.

Phi building.

When you designed a machines body by phi calculus angles design.

By doing science you lost natural bio sex related consciousness as life continuance itself.

By interferring as a crossing of our biology heavens by the suns fall ufo mass. Transmitters unnatural.

The sun hence forms not biology...alien terms. As earth owns it own living water.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.”
Revelation 17:5​

Notable features
Babylon the Great is described as
  • the great prostitute
  • sitting on many waters,
  • committed sexual immorality with the kings of the earth
  • making earth’s inhabitants drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality
  • sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast
  • clothed in purple and scarlet
  • adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls
  • having in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality
  • the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth
  • drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus
  • the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth

Additional clues to unravel the mystery
  • (Revelation 17:9-13) 9 The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.
  • (Revelation 17:15) . . .“The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.
  • (Revelation 18:3) . . .the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury. . .
  • (Revelation 18:5) . . .her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. . .
  • (Revelation 18:7) . . .she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury. . . she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning. 
  • (Revelation 18:22-23) 22 . . .the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp, of musicians, of flutists, and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again. And no craftsman who practices any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again. 23 No light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; for your merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, and by your spiritistic practices all the nations were misled.

What is the identity of Babylon the Great?
These features, and references leaves us in no doubt! The Mother Harlot, Babylon the Great can be nothing other than religion. Notably, since she has God's displeasure, she has to be false religion. This is supported by the warning God gives... “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. . . (Revelation 18:4-5)

Thus, keeping in consistency with scripture, Babylon the Great represents all religion that is false from God's perspective.
What else can it be, based on scriptural references?
This is about Rome. Are you saying that Roman Catholicism is a false religion?
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
ERROR, listen and Learn,
Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:11 "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;" Ephesians 2:12 "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" Ephesians 2:13 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;" Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:17 "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh." Ephesians 2:18 "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;" Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" Ephesians 2:21 "In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:" Ephesians 2:22 "In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

there it is, verse 19, "but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;"

HOUSE.... HOLD of God, not some tribe, but the HOUSE-HOLD of God. and get this, "but fellowcitizens with the saints". so you can get that "slave" mentality off your brain.....


ONE HOUSE-HOLD of God. not Israel, nor any Jews but of GOD, let 101G say it again.... "OF GOD".

now hear it from a JEW. 1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." this is not a Jewish thing, nor an Israel thing, not it's a GOD THING. it's not about you nor 101G, but about GOD........ I just Love this.

see, it's not a Jewish thing anymore. it a GOD thing concerning the World. God Just chose Israel to show the World who he is, just as he chose Pharaoh to show his POWER to the World. that's all. Jews are no better that any Gentile, for in Christ Jesus there is neither Jerw nor Gentile, (God stopped any Jew or Gentile thing right there in Christ Jesus),. for God is No Respecter of PERSON, I just LOVE GOD, the Lord Jesus. he plays no Favorites. ...... :eek: YIKES!

so, to all you Jews who thinks you're riding on a white horse, no you're on a donkey just like the rest of the WORLD, riding humble, and as the song said, "you're riding dirty". (smile)

101G.

Drinking from the well of false prophet Paul, is probably not the wisest move. As for 1 John 2:2 you also need to go onto 1 John 2:3, "And by this we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments". This written to the "young men" in whom the "word of God abides". (1 John 2:14) That would be the "Word of God" which you have nailed to a cross and believe is "obsolete". As for 1 John 2:27-29, if one has received the "anointing" one does not need the "teachers, prophets, apostles, that Paul has appointed, and you will know that "everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him". As for 1 John 2:18-20 "many antichrist have risen....they have gone out from us, but they are not really of us", much like Paul was thrown out of Jerusalem, and went to the Gentiles to help cast the "tare seed" (Matthew 13), the message of lawlessness, to those who "commit lawlessness" and have a reserved seat in the upcoming "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:39-42). And when will the "end" come, well that is when the "kingdom shall be preached to the whole world", and what "kingdom" is that. That would be the "kingdom of heaven" whereas the "enemy" sows his seed in the same field/book as the message of the "son of man" and whereas at the "end of the age", the angels come and "first" "gather" the tares, those that "commit lawlessness", and throws them into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:24-30 & 39-43).

Matthew 13:24-30 24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26“But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27“The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
This is about Rome. Are you saying that Roman Catholicism is a false religion?

The Roman Catholic church was instituted and supported by the Roman emperor Constantine at his convened Council of Nicaea. Rome as the "beast"/kingdom with regards to Revelation 13:4, got its "authority" from the "dragon"/devil/serpent which would be the sun god, the god (Sol Invictus) of Constantine, and the Roman church, and the "women" sat upon the "beast" (Rome). The "women"/harlot daughter, the Roman church, was a daughter of "Babylon" in as that the pagan church of Babel worshipped the sun god, in the form of Bel. The Roman church and her daughters, the Protestant churches are just daughters of the church of Babylon. There is nothing "false" about the "Roman Catholic" church, it is the church of the "dragon", with Paul as it's false prophet (Matthew 7:13-15), leading it down the broad path to "destruction". All are destined to "fall" per Matthew 7:26 & Isaiah 22: 15-25, and those who hang on, are to be "cut off". (Isaiah 22:25)
 

101G

Well-Known Member
I already said, in post #117.
You however, have not answered the question.
Ok, thanks for the reply.
now if you think Revelation is ... "NOT" .... past, well you better Read Matthews chapter 2, for this is the birth of the Christ. point by point revealing of the Christ Birth.

We disagree, and you strongly believe you've got it all covered.
I think the scriptures disagree, but with Revelation, it's not easy to disprove anyone's ideas. If scriptures don't do that, I don't argue.

I think the scriptures do that, so all I will say on that, is this...
I'll let myself be guided by John's opening words. Revelation 1:1
How you chose to interpret anything after that, is up to you.

What John sees, is what resurrected Jesus shows him. Nothing before that.
So everything we read after Revelation 1:1 is future. Not past.
The only present, is that John is seeing visions, and those visions take him to the Lord's day. Revelation 1:10
I'll let myself be guided by John's opening words. Revelation 1:1, and you said, "What John sees, is what resurrected Jesus shows him. Nothing before that".

the Revelation is of JESUS THE CHRIST. and it STARTS with his incarnation as said, which Matthews records. that's PAST, already happen, as well as the Ministry of the Two witness chapter 11, John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus the Christ, as swell as the Spread of the Gospel in Chapter 10.

understand, this is not 101G's interpretation, this is bible, chapter 12 is the BIRTH of the CHRIST, Chapter 11 the two witnesses. (WHICH ARE JOHN THE BAPTIST, AND THE LORD JESUS), and Chapter 10 is the Spread of the Gospel. ALL PAST HISTORY, when the book of Revelation was written.

don't believe 101G, READ you bible with the Holy Spirit and get the UNDERSTANDING of the Book of Revelation.

PICJAG, 101G
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Ok, thanks for the reply.
now if you think Revelation is ... "NOT" .... past, well you better Read Matthews chapter 2, for this is the birth of the Christ. point by point revealing of the Christ Birth.
I've read Matthew 2... too many times to count.
What of it?

I'll let myself be guided by John's opening words. Revelation 1:1, and you said, "What John sees, is what resurrected Jesus shows him. Nothing before that".

the Revelation is of JESUS THE CHRIST. and it STARTS with his incarnation as said, which Matthews records. that's PAST, already happen, as well as the Ministry of the Two witness chapter 11, John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus the Christ, as swell as the Spread of the Gospel in Chapter 10.
No, sorry. You are not using scripture here. You are stating your ideas.

understand, this is not 101G's interpretation, this is bible, chapter 12 is the BIRTH of the CHRIST, Chapter 11 the two witnesses. (WHICH ARE JOHN THE BAPTIST, AND THE LORD JESUS), and Chapter 10 is the Spread of the Gospel. ALL PAST HISTORY, when the book of Revelation was written.
You are merely stating your ideas. What happened to the Bible, now?

don't believe 101G, READ you bible with the Holy Spirit and get the UNDERSTANDING of the Book of Revelation.

PICJAG, 101G
You don't think only you read the Bible, do you?
The holy spirit is not some genie 101G. You can ask Phillip. Acts of the Apostles 8:30-31
 

101G

Well-Known Member
I've read Matthew 2... too many times to count.
What of it?
in Revelation 12, John is shown in the vision the birth of Christ.
Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12
Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of the Nation, Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = behind, or in a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (Satan is always in the background)
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic)
Sun = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Gospel of Christ)
Moon = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Mosaic Law)

OF A NOTE: as said, keep one hand on Revelation chapter 12 and the other hand on Matthews chapter 2. it's a verse by verse, "The Birth of the Christ".


PICJAG, 101G.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
in Revelation 12, John is shown in the vision the birth of Christ.
Right. and Mary was in heaven, with the moon beneath her feet. Are you being serious?

Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12
Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of the Nation, Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = behind, or in a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (Satan is always in the background)
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic)
Sun = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Gospel of Christ)
Moon = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Mosaic Law)

OF A NOTE: as said, keep one hand on Revelation chapter 12 and the other hand on Matthews chapter 2. it's a verse by verse, "The Birth of the Christ".


PICJAG, 101G.
No. Go back to Revelation 1:1. Read it again. Then let go of your ideas.
Take your finger from Matthew, and go to Genesis 3:15, Once there, ask yourself, 'how could this possibly be Mary??
Then take a look at Galatians 4:26, and ask yourself, 'what woman is that?'
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Right. and Mary was in heaven, with the moon beneath her feet. Are you being serious?
First thanks for the reply, second, are you reading your bible WITH the Holy Spirit? apparently not. ERROR on your Part. just because a vision is shown in heaven doesn't mean it took place in heaven. Mary represents the Church in the wilderness, the Remnant, that which stayed TRUE to God.
Revelation 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars".
the Moon at her feet = the Mosaic Law, a lesser light. Israel was walking by a dim light, the law. it was a lamp unto her, Israel, feet. Supporting Scriptures, Prov 6:23 "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life", now, Psalms 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path”. there it is, “the law was a lamp, (light) at her feet. just as the Sun is a greater light compared to the moon, so is the word of God, (the Gospel) is superior to the Law. The sun is, not NATURAL, but spiritual, Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Verse 2 "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall”.

upon her head a crown of twelve stars = the place of honor. these 12 stars represent NOT the 12 tribes of Israel, for each tribe had a head, or principle person to lead. but stars here means “messengers”, and God, the Lord Jesus chose 12 “stars”/messengers who later became the 12 apostles, the foundation of “HIS” church, who he, the Lord Jesus is the chief cornerstone, to spread the gospel, as the sun spread is rays all over the earth. The sun, the Glory to come, shine in darkness which is her destiny, meaning taking the gospel to all the world. Supporting scriptures. Matthew 24:14 " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come”. the sun is on her head, as Jesus is the head of the Church, for he it that light, and a city that is set on a hill, (above), so that all, as in EVERY NATION, can see, or understand the Good news.. As the prophet Malachi says the Sun of righteousness, in his wings is "HEALING for the Nations.
Take your finger from Matthew, and go to Genesis 3:15, Once there, ask yourself, 'how could this possibly be Mary??
the seed of the Woman is the "VIRGIN" who knew no man.

now put your little finglers back on Matthews chapter 2, and Revelation chapter 12.

and let's see the Revelation of 1:1 Jesus the Christ.

101G.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
The harlot? What leads you to conclude that?


Not in this thread. The harlot of Revelation does not fit one religion, but all false religion.
I don't see how Roman Catholicism fits true religion. Do you?
Reading on it. 666 is the number for Nero. There is no perfect religion. I think Catholics are doing fine, except for the child molestation thing. Ugh.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
@nPeace,
Revelation 12:2 "And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered”.
delivered?, "SALVATION" which is from God himself in flesh. Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

if this is the today's church, as many have said and believe, then she is an adulteress church, and that is not going to flying, because the Lord Jesus is coming for a church without a spot or wrinkle. having a baby out of wedlock is a spot and a wrinkle all rolled into one. but, this woman represents the virgin Mary, who is symbolically of the remnant, (the church in the wilderness, see Acts 7:38). but with child by the Holy Spirit, and still married to the Lord Jesus, so this is Spiritual in begetting., that's the reason why in verse one this was a great wonder, or miracle.

being the Representative as the virgin who gave birth to a male child without the help of a natural man. this was of God, (the LORD JESUS, the Ordinal First). God brought forth this male child. Scripture Matt 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". which was foretold by Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

But the question remains, just who really is this woman?. to identify the woman, (this church), let's start where this baby started. scripture, Hebrews 7:14 " For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood”. ok, now we have evidence to follow. he sprang out of Judah. from verse 1, we know that she is a church. next we must find out who was in the wilderness. it was one nation until she split into two kingdoms. the northern 10 tribes, and the two southern tribes of Judah, and Benjamin. so which one is the woman? lets see.
Jeremiah 3:6 " The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also”. we can see clearly that God not only put Israel, (the 10 northern tribes), away, and divorce her. but what about Israel sister Judah?. Isaiah 50:1 " Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away”. here we see God did not divorce Judah, only put her away. and if a man put away his wife and not divorce her he can take her back. so clearly there was the remnant that was not in divorcement, but only put away.

The birth pains refer to the whole creation, (including us), in need of redemption by the Messiah. Supportive scripture, Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Verse 23 "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body”. for this was foretold, Micah 5:3 "Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel”.

so in conclusion the woman here is Judah, where Mary come from, and our Lord sprang out of her. as the writer said, “For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda”, Hebrews 7:14. so this church to come was a way to beget children, by being "born again".
So the remnant is this woman symbolically. and it is a Spiritual Church.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
First thanks for the reply, second, are you reading your bible WITH the Holy Spirit? apparently not. ERROR on your Part. just because a vision is shown in heaven doesn't mean it took place in heaven. Mary represents the Church in the wilderness, the Remnant, that which stayed TRUE to God.
Revelation 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars".
the Moon at her feet = the Mosaic Law, a lesser light. Israel was walking by a dim light, the law. it was a lamp unto her, Israel, feet. Supporting Scriptures, Prov 6:23 "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life", now, Psalms 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path”. there it is, “the law was a lamp, (light) at her feet. just as the Sun is a greater light compared to the moon, so is the word of God, (the Gospel) is superior to the Law. The sun is, not NATURAL, but spiritual, Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Verse 2 "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall”.

upon her head a crown of twelve stars = the place of honor. these 12 stars represent NOT the 12 tribes of Israel, for each tribe had a head, or principle person to lead. but stars here means “messengers”, and God, the Lord Jesus chose 12 “stars”/messengers who later became the 12 apostles, the foundation of “HIS” church, who he, the Lord Jesus is the chief cornerstone, to spread the gospel, as the sun spread is rays all over the earth. The sun, the Glory to come, shine in darkness which is her destiny, meaning taking the gospel to all the world. Supporting scriptures. Matthew 24:14 " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come”. the sun is on her head, as Jesus is the head of the Church, for he it that light, and a city that is set on a hill, (above), so that all, as in EVERY NATION, can see, or understand the Good news.. As the prophet Malachi says the Sun of righteousness, in his wings is "HEALING for the Nations.

the seed of the Woman is the "VIRGIN" who knew no man.

now put your little finglers back on Matthews chapter 2, and Revelation chapter 12.

and let's see the Revelation of 1:1 Jesus the Christ.

101G.
If you start wrong, you will end wrong. revelation is not about the past. First mistake.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
You don't think only you read the Bible, do you?
The holy spirit is not some genie 101G. You can ask Phillip. Acts of the Apostles 8:30-31
ye have not because ye ask not...... (smile) .... o_O Yikes!

101G.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
If you start wrong, you will end wrong. revelation is not about the past. First mistake.
You ERROR, let's breakdown the scriptures.
Revelation 12:3 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."
Great, is symbolic, here for Herod, the King, who is called in the sescular world Herod the Great, (because of his building projects).. and red signified the blood on his hands from killing not only the innocence babies, while trying to kill the Lord Jesus. but even his own family members, who he suspected wanted his throne.

Crowns = leadership or rulership.

This great dragon is represented symbolically by king Herod, who in the secular world as said, he was called “the great”, for his reconstruction efforts. remember this is symbolic language here in Revelation. the devil, who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. red here is symbolic for blood, for this king had much blood on his hands. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. he also had the blood of John the Baptist on his hands, (he cut off his head). The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he, (king Herod), ruled by, (the romans). king Herod authority was supported by that power, the Roman Empire. so clearly he is a bloody, (red), dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2. this vision John sees is the birth of the Christ, the start of the Church, that the Lord Jesus christ is building.

futher details will be given on the seven heads and ten horns in Chapter 17.

Now lets look at this dragon closely.
Revelation 12:4 "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”.
The main key here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here is symbolic of men who hold God's written word. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message from God, that’s the symbolization used here of heavenly stars. revelation chapter 12 correspond to the birth of Christ to a tee. Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king tried to kill the baby, the Christ. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon, (king herod), to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew here, means, "to gather together". so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together? it's the stars or messengers that is (of heaven), that’s on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill/devour, the child). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean to gather, or draw together. king Herod inquired of the men of God, (Heavenly messengers, or Godly men, the stars), as to where the babe was born at. lets pick up the account, and see what the "THIRD PART" that he drew with his tail. Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". Now lets get the third part, the wise men. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, (3 Part), enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, or the third of stars, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS. lets recap, Matthews 2:4, 1/3 the chief priests, 2/3 the scribes, and the 3/3 the wise men.

see how the wisdom of God work to bring out the correct information.

let God word prove without a doubt that these stars here in chapter 12 are men. Jude1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, (there they are),..... Human men. a reading of the whole chapter will revealed who they are.

and the dragon stood before the woman ready to devoue”. Matthews 2:8 “ And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also”. The word devour here is to kill. scripture: Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men". So we see the real dragon being represented/ or is symbolic in the person of king Herod. And the woman, symbolic of the church in the wilderness, (Judah). And the child born is the male child the Christ, the HEAD of the church, the chief cornerstone. and the 3rd of stars was 1 the chief priest, 2 scribes, and 3 the wise men, the THREE PARTS.

So no holy angels fell from heaven, not here.


PICJAG, 101G.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Reading on it. 666 is the number for Nero.
Why do you conclude that?

There is no perfect religion. I think Catholics are doing fine, except for the child molestation thing. Ugh.
Nothing on this earth is perfect.
You think the Catholics are doing fine... Is it because you think we should tolerate some things that people want to do?

The Roman Catholic Church does not condemn smoking per se, but considers excessive smoking to be sinful, as described in the Catechism (CCC 2290)
30504.jpg


Do you think they are doing good, here? Is that a good example for our young people?
VATICAN CITY - 9 November 2017: Pope Francis has ordered a ban on the sale of cigarettes inside the Vatican from next year because of health concerns, a spokesman said on Thursday.

Only inside the Vatican, huh.
Aren't we supposed to be concerned about everyone's health?
Would you ban something that is harmful, only in your vicinity, or in your entire community?
If I know that something is detrimental to health, and I had the authority, none of those in my community would be allowed to harm others... for their own selfish pleasures.

I think a religion that is "doing good", would teach the principle of 2 Corinthians 7:1.
Do they use the Bible for guidance, or do they rely on their own opinions?

I think there are some things they are doing good in. For example... The Vatican’s declaration that same-sex unions are a sin the Roman Catholic Church cannot bless
All religions do good in some area(s).

Don't you think it would help if they tried to be "squeaky" clean in most areas, if not all - like 99.999%?
What do you think would make that happen?
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Reading on it. 666 is the number for Nero. There is no perfect religion. I think Catholics are doing fine, except for the child molestation thing. Ugh.
Nero didn't deceive "those who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:13). He supposedly killed the "two horns like a lamb", the Christ like leaders that were the foundation of the Gentile Church (Roman church and her daughters). Those being Peter and Paul, for whom Constantine (the beast with two horns like a lamb) built basilicas (pagan cross shaped churches) for both. The "abominations" (Revelation 17:5) of Babylon would include changing the day of rest to the day of the sun god "Sol Invictus", Sunday, the day of Constantine's sun god in 321 A.D., and having Constantine's Nicene Council come up with the false dogma of the Trinity, and the initiation of keeping the pagan goddess Astarte's day (Easter) as holy. The oldest version of Revelation 13:18 reads 616, not 666, and that was the number of Constantine's name. The "harlot" daughter, the Roman Catholic church, is simply mad at Nero for killing both Peter and Paul. Nero has no legacy, but Constantine's legacy, is the Roman Church, which will fall after time, times, and half a time (Daniel 2:25), or as stated in Isaiah 22:25, "in that day", which would be day of the LORD (Joel 2;31-32).
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Why do you conclude that?


Nothing on this earth is perfect.
You think the Catholics are doing fine... Is it because you think we should tolerate some things that people want to do?

The Roman Catholic Church does not condemn smoking per se, but considers excessive smoking to be sinful, as described in the Catechism (CCC 2290)
30504.jpg


Do you think they are doing good, here? Is that a good example for our young people?
VATICAN CITY - 9 November 2017: Pope Francis has ordered a ban on the sale of cigarettes inside the Vatican from next year because of health concerns, a spokesman said on Thursday.

Only inside the Vatican, huh.
Aren't we supposed to be concerned about everyone's health?
Would you ban something that is harmful, only in your vicinity, or in your entire community?
If I know that something is detrimental to health, and I had the authority, none of those in my community would be allowed to harm others... for their own selfish pleasures.

I think a religion that is "doing good", would teach the principle of 2 Corinthians 7:1.
Do they use the Bible for guidance, or do they rely on their own opinions?

I think there are some things they are doing good in. For example... The Vatican’s declaration that same-sex unions are a sin the Roman Catholic Church cannot bless
All religions do good in some area(s).

Don't you think it would help if they tried to be "squeaky" clean in most areas, if not all - like 99.999%?
What do you think would make that happen?
I read that about Nero in many different books. During that time that's who the enemy was.
I don't think the Pope has any influence outside the Vatican. He's not an elected official, just a church leader.
I think they should try to be squeaky clean, but humans often don't want that and religions are full of people.
 
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