Can you Unravel the Mystery?

[Brian2]

No problem.
Thanks for responding.
So would that be the generation that Jesus is speaking to, which will both see the sign, as well as Jesus' coming, in your opinion?

I would say that Jesus gave the warning about the Temple to those it would affect before Matt 24:29.
That is all He needed to do, warn people about what would happen and what signs to look for and when to flee.
The events surrounding the destruction of the Temple in 70AD seem to coincide with events in the latter days but there are more events (after verse 28) that seem to point specifically to the coming of Jesus.
It is the generation that sees all the events, including the ones after verse 28, which will be the one to see Jesus return imo.
Matt 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

 

[nPeace]

I would say that Jesus gave the warning about the Temple to those it would affect before Matt 24:29.
That is all He needed to do, warn people about what would happen and what signs to look for and when to flee.
The events surrounding the destruction of the Temple in 70AD seem to coincide with events in the latter days but there are more events (after verse 28) that seem to point specifically to the coming of Jesus.
It is the generation that sees all the events, including the ones after verse 28, which will be the one to see Jesus return imo.
Matt 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

I don't think I really got an answer to my question.
You did repeat what you said earlier, and put it in another way, but that does not answer my question... at least it does not appear to.

Let me try again. Jesus said... "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."
I'm asking you... Would that be the generation that Jesus is speaking to, which will both see the sign, as well as Jesus' coming, in your opinion?
Would that generation be the generation that sees the signs Jesus gave; the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD; the coming of Jesus?
My second question is, what is that generation?

 

[2ndpillar]

I don't think I really got an answer to my question.
You did repeat what you said earlier, and put it in another way, but that does not answer my question... at least it does not appear to.

Let me try again. Jesus said... "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."
I'm asking you... Would that be the generation that Jesus is speaking to, which will both see the sign, as well as Jesus' coming, in your opinion?
Would that generation be the generation that sees the signs Jesus gave; the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD; the coming of Jesus?
My second question is, what is that generation?

Why not ask John per John 21:27. How does John remain "until I come" if he doesn't die?

 

[Brian2]

I don't think I really got an answer to my question.
You did repeat what you said earlier, and put it in another way, but that does not answer my question... at least it does not appear to.

Let me try again. Jesus said... "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."
I'm asking you... Would that be the generation that Jesus is speaking to, which will both see the sign, as well as Jesus' coming, in your opinion?
Would that generation be the generation that sees the signs Jesus gave; the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD; the coming of Jesus?
My second question is, what is that generation?

Jesus can't have meant that the generation living 2000 years ago would see His coming.
Matt 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

From the above passage, if you see all the signs then you will know that the end is near, right at the door. Then Jesus goes on to say just how near it is, it will happen before that generation that sees the signs dies.

 

[nPeace]

Why not ask John per John 21:27. How does John remain "until I come" if he doesn't die?

There is no John 21:27.
However, thee verses that follow, show that some misinterpreted Jesus' words.
I don't understand your question though. "How does John remain "until I come" if he doesn't die?"
Are you asking, what Jesus meant, if John does not die?
Neither question is making sense. Can you rephrase?

 

[nPeace]

Jesus can't have meant that the generation living 2000 years ago would see His coming.

Why not?
You don't think Jesus lied, do you?
He did say, "This generation..."
This does not mean that.

Matt 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

From the above passage, if you see all the signs then you will know that the end is near, right at the door. Then Jesus goes on to say just how near it is, it will happen before that generation that sees the signs dies.

What will happen?
Every features of the sign? Christ's coming? Both?

 

[2ndpillar]

There is no John 21:27.
However, thee verses that follow, show that some misinterpreted Jesus' words.
I don't understand your question though. "How does John remain "until I come" if he doesn't die?"
Are you asking, what Jesus meant, if John does not die?
Neither question is making sense. Can you rephrase?

It means that John will remain "until I come", regardless of whether he dies, or like the predecessor of John the Baptist, Elijah, he comes again and again, and again until the end. And no, it is not "thee" verses that follow, it is "the verse" that follow. I will have to admit, that I thought I saw "John" on the beach of Mombasa, Kenya back in the 1970s. He was looking spry but had a couple of years on him.

 

[2ndpillar]

Jesus can't have meant that the generation living 2000 years ago would see His coming.
Matt 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

From the above passage, if you see all the signs then you will know that the end is near, right at the door. Then Jesus goes on to say just how near it is, it will happen before that generation that sees the signs dies.

According to Hosea 5:14-15-6:2, "I will go away" until "they (Judah/Jews and Ephraim) acknowledge their guilt", and then "He will revive us after two days (2000 years); He will raise us up on the third day" (Mt 17:23). We are now in the 3rd day, and if you can distinguish the "abomination of desolation" (Mt 24:15) then start looking for the "son of man" to come "immediately after the tribulation. (Mt 24:29).

 

[nPeace]

It means that John will remain "until I come", regardless of whether he dies, or like the predecessor of John the Baptist, Elijah, he comes again and again, and again until the end.

I suspect that if you were one of the disciples back then, today I would be reading...
23 So the saying went out among the brothers that this disciple would not die. One of the disciples was saying, even if he dies, he would come again, and again, until the end. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, or that he would die, and come again and again, but he said: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you?”

And no, it is not "thee" verses that follow, it is "the verse" that follow.

Thanks. I should have avoided the KJV.

I will have to admit, that I thought I saw "John" on the beach of Mombasa, Kenya back in the 1970s. He was looking spry but had a couple of years on him.

I'm sure you did see John.
In fact, I am 100% sure, you saw several Johns.
Hopefully, not Long Johns.

 

[2ndpillar]

I suspect that if you were one of the disciples back then, today I would be reading...
23 So the saying went out among the brothers that this disciple would not die. One of the disciples was saying, even if he dies, he would come again, and again, until the end. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, or that he would die, and come again and again, but he said: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you?”



Thanks. I should have avoided the KJV.


I'm sure you did see John.
In fact, I am 100% sure, you saw several Johns.
Hopefully, not Long Johns.

Your new version is less of a parable, and more to the point, whereas it is easier for those without eyes to see. (Mt 13:13-15). Maybe we are in the days when everything hidden under a rock will be brought to light. See how much a help you have been to those in the dark? When turning over rocks, make sure you don't fall in the hole left behind.

Matthew 10:27
What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.
Matthew 10:26
So do not be afraid of them. For there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, and nothing hidden that will not be made known.

 

[Brian2]

According to Hosea 5:14-15-6:2, "I will go away" until "they (Judah/Jews and Ephraim) acknowledge their guilt", and then "He will revive us after two days (2000 years); He will raise us up on the third day" (Mt 17:23). We are now in the 3rd day, and if you can distinguish the "abomination of desolation" (Mt 24:15) then start looking for the "son of man" to come "immediately after the tribulation. (Mt 24:29).

We are told to always be prepared, but of course it is a matter of grace that allows us to be anything near ready for the return of Jesus.

 

[Brian2]

Why not?
You don't think Jesus lied, do you?
He did say, "This generation..."
This does not mean that.

As I said, Jesus is giving signs for the Temple destruction and His return. After a certain amount of signs the Temple would be destroyed. (Jesus gave enough warning to help save people from that by telling them to flee if the say the abomination that makes desolate etc)
I would say that the same signs are going to happen near the time of Jesus return and more signs also and Jesus will return in the generation of those who see all the signs at the end of the age.

What will happen?
Every features of the sign? Christ's coming? Both?

Christ's coming will happen before that generation that sees all the signs dies out.

 

[2ndpillar]

We are told to always be prepared, but of course it is a matter of grace that allows us to be anything near ready for the return of Jesus.

According to Yeshua, it is not "grace" which will save you, but one must "endure" (Mt 24) and call on the name of the LORD, and flee to the mountains with respect to those in "Judea", as in "Jerusalem" whereas those in "Jerusalem" will "escape"/"survive" in the "day of the LORD" (Har-Magedon) (Joel 2:31-32)(Rev 16:16). As for Isaiah 26:20, you would need a door to close and keep oneself intact until the "indignation pass".

Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

 

[2ndpillar]

As I said, Jesus is giving signs for the Temple destruction and His return. After a certain amount of signs the Temple would be destroyed. (Jesus gave enough warning to help save people from that by telling them to flee if the say the abomination that makes desolate etc)
I would say that the same signs are going to happen near the time of Jesus return and more signs also and Jesus will return in the generation of those who see all the signs at the end of the age.



Christ's coming will happen before that generation that sees all the signs dies out.

The "son of man" comes immediately after the "great tribulation" (Mt 24:29), which is to be the greatest tribulation since the beginning and the world and ever shall be, which is not descriptive of 70 A.D. As for John 21:23, John of that generation, is probably still somewhere walking around.

 

[Muffled]

You missed the point of how "Babylon the Great" was actually referring to, namely the Roman Empire.

I believe I have not seen any evidence to support that view.

 

[Muffled]

Revelation 17 notes the progression of the "kingdoms" and their ending with the 8th head of the beast, the one that "was", and "is not". Daniel notes their total destruction "all at the same time" with respect to Daniel 2:35. The time of the end, the time of judgment of the nation, noted as "the LORD's day" is at hand, with regard to the 8th head of the beast that is now in reign with his 10 horns like a lamb. The "beast"/king that was (Rev 17:11), was Julius Caesar (dictator/emperor) is represented in the present time via his 10 horns, and they are such personages as the Kaiser/Caesar, the Czar/Caesar, and men representing such as Stalin, Hitler, and present-day dictators such as Putin. The "kingdom" to come, not made with hands, is the "kingdom of God" as represented by Zechariah 14:16 & Ezekiel 37:21-28, Isaiah 14:1-2, Rev 19:15, Joel 3:2-7, whereas the "nations"/Gentiles will become slaves of Judah, and ruled by a "rod of iron".

I do not believe Caesar fits.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus is answering about the destruction of the Temple and the signs of His coming also. I believe it is the signs of His coming, not His presence.
Whether the Jews will build another Temple which will be destroyed is not said.
But the generation that sees all the signs mentioned in the prophecy will also see the coming of Jesus imo.
Sorry I did not answer before this, I have not been receiving emails from RF for a long time and so I don't know all the places I have been mentioned in a post.

I believe signs can be tricky. I am still waiting to see if a really good one pans out. I might have to live to 102 to be sure if it was too good to be true.

 

[2ndpillar]

I do not believe Caesar fits.

The "beast" of Rev 13:5, Caesar, ruled as a dictator for 42 months, after crossing the Rubican, and as a "slain" Caesar, was "healed" (Rev 13:3-5) per the Senate who made him declared him a god, whereas his power reigned through the ensuing 10 Augustus Caesars (the 6th head of Rev 17) onto the reign of "another" king (Daniel 7:24-25), the 7th head of the beast of Rev 17:10-11, Constantine, and lives in today's era as Kaiser (German for Caesar), and the Czar (Russian word of Caesar), living today as Mr. Putin, or as a leader/emperor/dictator led by a spirit of a demon (Rev 16:13), as is with Joe Biden and his associates. Caesar as a word is defined as dictator/emperor/etc. We now have one in the U.S. White House, who rules by pen and a phone, if someone dials for him.

 

[Brian2]

I believe signs can be tricky. I am still waiting to see if a really good one pans out. I might have to live to 102 to be sure if it was too good to be true.

Yes signs are tricky. It is good that we have a number of them to go by.

 

[Brian2]

The "son of man" comes immediately after the "great tribulation" (Mt 24:29), which is to be the greatest tribulation since the beginning and the world and ever shall be, which is not descriptive of 70 A.D. As for John 21:23, John of that generation, is probably still somewhere walking around.

Don't forget the sun and moon and stars sign.