Cancel culture used to control speech?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes - he helped to build the foundation for the residential school system, though as you point out, he died before it was implemented.

During his own life, though, he was a strong advocate against education of women. As he was building the education system you describe, he fought to exclude girls and women where he could and segregate them where he couldn't.

Do you find this praiseworthy?

Do you celebrate the educational system that Ryerson built, or the system that we have today, which has had most of the systemic discrimination Ryerson built into it eliminated?

... or to put it another way: there are only 21 universities in Ontario. Naming one after Ryerson means not naming it after someone else. Weigh all of the positive and negative aspects of his legacy together; do you seriously think that his "net" legacy is so great that he's more entitled to that honour than any figure currently not honoured that way?

Are we recommending, then, that your accomplishments in one area should only be worthy of note if you were perfect in every other way? Has there ever existed such a person?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are we recommending, then, that your accomplishments in one area should only be worthy of note if you were perfect in every other way? Has there ever existed such a person?

If you think I said that, take a few deep breaths and then re-read my post.

 

[Koldo]

Are we recommending, then, that your accomplishments in one area should only be worthy of note if you were perfect in every other way? Has there ever existed such a person?

When your name is given to something or a statue of yours is built, it is you who is being praised. You as a whole. Not just the good parts.

Just as a frame of reference:
Did you know the current animal welfare laws in Germany were introduced by the nazi? How about a statue to praise a nazi for that?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When your name is given to something or a statue of yours is built, it is you who is being praised. You as a whole. Not just the good parts.

Just as a frame of reference:
Did you know the current animal welfare laws in Germany were introduced by the nazi? How about a statue to praise a nazi for that?

No one is a saint though. Everyone's got skeletons in the closet.
As for the animal rights in Germany, well, for animal rights they do deserve acknowledgement. It would be silly to try to claim it was someone else or just never mention it. That's not saying the Holocaust was good, it's just accepting a historic fact and giving credit where it's rightfully due.

 

[crossfire]

Heckling a kid for exploiting his grandmother's death (if real) to further an ulterior political agenda is standing up for truth.

Fake sneezing would fall under expression. How wold you trigger a real sneeze on command?

Sometimes you have to be "rude" to wake people up for their own good.

The heckling was mocking. Mocking is a tactic used to repress something--in this case, trying to repress talking about people dying of COVID.
The woman following the people around coughing on them was taunting. Taunting is used to manipulate people into disengaging their rational mind and doing something reactive without thinking. Taunting is the opposite of trying to "wake someone up," it is trying to get someone to shut down their rational mind.

Neither tactic is in the interest of promoting free and rational discussion. Rather, these are tactics of manipulation, not free speech. Know the difference.

 

[Koldo]

No one is a saint though. Everyone's got skeletons in the closet.
As for the animal rights in Germany, well, for animal rights they do deserve acknowledgement. It would be silly to try to claim it was someone else or just never mention it. That's not saying the Holocaust was good, it's just accepting a historic fact and giving credit where it's rightfully due.

Most certainly. Which doesn't mean we should build a statue for them.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

when ever you open a door to demonstrate your right to free speech, by make a controversial statement or expressing a point of view.
Do not be surprised if other come through that door and rebut what you say.
They have the same right to do so as you have.

However the rules of Polite discussion and friendship rarely come through at the same time.
In a divided society Cancel Culture is the norm. and follows the extremes to which the views diverge.

Belittling mocking and sarcasm and shouting down are not pleasant but come with the territory of todays socially rule less society.
Trump encouraged and used such attacks in his public debates. and normalised such tactics.
One can hardly be surprised that others, on all sides, now feel free to follow his example.

 

[tas8831]

It seems that exercising your 1st amendment rights will trigger a witch hunt, where challenging the MSM's spoonfed script will result in attempts to silence dissenters by shaming and doxing them.

TRANSLATION:
Sometimes, being a simple-minded, aggressively obnoxious jerk in public has consequences.

‘Anti-Mask Karen’ fired over viral grocery store coughing video

Like that. Imagine thinking it is OK to cough on strangers during a pandemic... How about a little grow-up session for these people?

Imagine a comic book where the villains tricked those who need rescued into seeing them as the heroes, and into seeing the actual heroes as the villains. Imagine being reviled rather than revered for fighting for truth and justice.

Imagine that this comic book is called "Backwards Day".

That's the world we now live in.

No - we live in a world now where racists doing racist things can be recorded and those racists suffer the consequences - consequences that they used to get away with in the past.
No - we live in a world now where conspiracy nuts doing nutty obnoxious things can be recorded and those nuts suffer the consequences - consequences that they used to get away with in the past.
No - we live in a world now where right-wing thugs doing thug things can be recorded and those thugs suffer the consequences - consequences that they used to get away with in the past.
etc.
How horrible.

Oh - and coughing on someone in public during a pandemic is not a 1st Amendment right. It could be considered assault.
A shame that so few of the people whining about their 'rights' so often to not understand what those rights actually encompass.

 

[tas8831]

Heckling a kid for exploiting his grandmother's death (if real) to further an ulterior political agenda is standing up for truth.

"Truth"? What truth is that, exactly?

Fake sneezing would fall under expression. How wold you trigger a real sneeze on command?

Coughing is not sneezing. Even fake sneezing expels droplets from the mouth and nose. If that hag were infected, she would have been purposefully attempting to infect other people, i.e., harm them.
Not covered by the 1st Amendment.
Making look at this?
7 things you need to know about the First Amendment | The Free Speech Center
"The First Amendment protects us against government limits on our freedom of expression, but it doesn’t prevent a private employer from setting its own rules."

Also, the 1st Amendment does not mean that you must never suffer the consequences for your expression of first amendment rights. That is some righty snowflake crap right there.

Sometimes you have to be "rude" to wake people up for their own good.

Sometimes you have to be intelligent and informed enough to know that the claims of anti-maskers and their ilk are premised on their selfishness and stupidity.
You come across as just another woke right-wing sheep who watches too much Newsmax and Fox and never bothered to learn to spot propaganda.

 

[tas8831]

I am sick to death of "cancel culture," and all the other "WOKE" nonsense I'm inundated with every day.

When I was a kid, we went outside and played without supervision -- and we fell down, and hurt ourselves, and developed antibodies while we were doing it. Almost nobody was allergic to peanuts. Supervision was minimal and we experienced a kind of joyful freedom.

When I got to high school, I was introduced to Shakespeare. Guess what --- Shylock was a Jew, and Othello was a black man tupping a white ewe (that's almost a quote). And Romeo and Juliet had sex when she was just 13! And we lived.

We knew about the bigotry that existed, yet we read the "n-word" in Harper Lee's "To Kill a Mockingbird" without learning to hate, and we understood that Tchaikovsky's "Chinese Dance" wasn't meant to demean, just to express how that culture appeared to them at the time.

I even understand that the first Prime Minister of Canada was not perfect, and had anti-Indian sentiments, and that many great American leaders owned slaves -- because that's how it was THEN.

Have we become so completely stupid that we are incapable of realizing that every human who ever lived, lived and understood the world in their own time, and according to the lights that existed then?

I HATE "Woke" rubbish and Cancel Culture.

Does that extend to cancelling Yeti, the Dixie Chicks, Lebron James, etc?
And how is an increase in nut allergies cancel culture? I'm kind of confused here...

 

[tas8831]

And of course they are trying to cancel speech with their behavior.

Cancel culture for me, but not for thee.

 

[tas8831]

I'm getting Poe's Law vibes, but I understand unfortunately that these opinions might be very real. Crazy world.

I'm sure they are real. Sadly...

 

[tas8831]

I wouldn't be flattered, but a lot of Woke, PC, SJW literature and videos and such strongly reminds me of when I was a hardened Evangelical Conservative with a rigidly dogmatic morality and view of the world, desires for censorship, shame and guilt, blaming a devil for everything, one article even reminded me the line "once I was blind now I see."

Sadly, it seems that sometimes well-meaning people/movements go too far and end up being parodies of themselves. When that happens, they damage the movement, to be sure. Look at the trend (or at least it was trend a while ago) to equate sexual harassment with sexual assault. Both are wrong, but to claim unwelcome overtures are no different from an outright rape? The attacks on Dolce and Gabbana for not supporting gay marriage despite being gay and otherwise supporting all manner of activism? These purity tests are the death of any movement - but as you indicate, we should not think these things are solely a left-wing thing...

 

[tas8831]

The false religion of science and socialism have made society soft

Yeah, unlike how the religion of conservatism has made men manly...
All I see are a bunch of babies whining because they can't call people the n-word in public like they want to.

, now everyone is crying about a kid being mocked for spreading propaganda or a mom being mocked for wearing a chin diaper.

Or maybe we are just tired of mindless nonsense from selfish boils on the butt of society?

 

[tas8831]

Rather like "political correctness" is a pejorative - you should be politically incorrect and so endeavour to offend as many as possible.

Only to then whine and cry about 'muh rights!' when you receive some consequences.

 

[tas8831]

When both are used to replace the values of our country and religion.

What is "our" religion?

It is hilarious how you have pivoted from being a 1st amendment advocate to a 1st-amedment-only-applies-to-us-right-wing-christian-nationalists!' laughingstock.

YOUR 'values' gave us simple-minded sore losers that tried to overturn an election.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Does that extend to cancelling Yeti, the Dixie Chicks, Lebron James, etc?
And how is an increase in nut allergies cancel culture? I'm kind of confused here...

I'm not quite sure what you mean about Yeti, Chicks or James. I'm not for "cancelling" culture at all, as I thought I made pretty clear. I might not like all forms of culture, but I can leave the bits I don't care for alone. I feel no particular urge to deny anybody else enjoying what they like.

Now, it is very true that allergies are increasing, and have been for quite a few years. I tried to suggest, which I think is partly true, that the reason for that is that children nowadays are often over-protected. As a consequence, they develop fewer infections than I did when I was young, and that can have an effect on how your immune system functions. Parasitic infections, in particular, are normally fought by the same mechanisms involved in tackling allergies. With fewer parasites to fight, the immune system turns against things that should be harmless.

 

[Meow Mix]

I'm not quite sure what you mean about Yeti, Chicks or James. I'm not for "cancelling" culture at all, as I thought I made pretty clear. I might not like all forms of culture, but I can leave the bits I don't care for alone. I feel no particular urge to deny anybody else enjoying what they like.

Now, it is very true that allergies are increasing, and have been for quite a few years. I tried to suggest, which I think is partly true, that the reason for that is that children nowadays are often over-protected. As a consequence, they develop fewer infections than I did when I was young, and that can have an effect on how your immune system functions. Parasitic infections, in particular, are normally fought by the same mechanisms involved in tackling allergies. With fewer parasites to fight, the immune system turns against things that should be harmless.

Who is making anyone else cancel anything though?

Only individuals or private entities are cancelling anything. For instance my choice not to eat at Chick-fil-A makes them cancelled because that’s my choice. Nobody holds a gun to my head and says “don’t eat at Chick-fil-A”

 

[Stevicus]

Who is making anyone else cancel anything though?

Only individuals or private entities are cancelling anything. For instance my choice not to eat at Chick-fil-A makes them cancelled because that’s my choice. Nobody holds a gun to my head and says “don’t eat at Chick-fil-A”

I don't believe a personal choice or boycott would be an example of cancel culture. It seems to apply in situations where someone at an authority level, such as a university admin canceling a scheduled speaker because they don't like their politics.

 

[Meow Mix]

I don't believe a personal choice or boycott would be an example of cancel culture. It seems to apply in situations where someone at an authority level, such as a university admin canceling a scheduled speaker because they don't like their politics.

As far as I know, that doesn't happen at public universities (it might at private universities).

For instance, many universities changed policies in the face of the rising alt-right and white nationalist movements that required speakers to get the backing of a representational group of students, but that was applied across the board. Unless I'm mistaken, controversial speakers can still speak at public universities as long as there's a group of students willing to take credit for them.