Can't get over your pet dying? Clone them!

[Revoltingest]

Let's agree that scams are wrong.
I proposed full disclosure.

If it's about the grieving process, who are we
to say how someone else should deal with it?

 

[Secret Chief]

Money is really a separate issue. If someone wants to spend it,
then that is their option....same as buying sports cars, mansions,
yachts, pure bred pets, art, racing camels, & antique engines.

So you equate living creatures with inanimate objects. Lives as commodities. Capitalist free choice trumps any ethics.
This dog has been bred so it can barely breathe but I will maintain the trade by buying one. Who cares for the lives of these dogs? Not me.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Human (mis)use of technology is an ongoing problem that will not go away any time soon. That box has already been opened. It cannot be un-opened; humans collectively don't have the wherewithal to un-open these boxes. It is only when the ability to use a tool from the box is lost that humans will stop using it. Humans are not intelligent enough to show restraint with use of technology. They are too obsessed with their own self-preservation and self-betterment to see how constantly trying to cheat death and "improve" life causes downfall for many others, including themselves.

Indeed. We're likely going to destroy ourselves so it doesn't really matter, I guess. We're too hubristic and stupid to survive.

 

[Secret Chief]

If it's about the grieving process, who are we
to say how someone else should deal with it?

When one of my cats dies I traditionally go out and kill some rightwingers. It's my money, I bought the gun and it helps me get through my grief.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Humans just continue their descent into depravity:

"...

And their love for Marley was so strong they couldn't really let go. So, the Tshirharts turned to ViaGen Pets, of Austin, Texas, a company that has cloned hundreds of pets for a multitude of grateful owners, including (according to ViaGen's client service manager Melain Rodriguez) Barbra Streisand: "We did, yes – her dog had passed away. And I think that she had known about what we do, and we were able to get samples very quickly. And there were actually more than one puppy born.

Rodriguez said it works like this: your vet takes a tissue sample from your pet and sends it off to ViaGen.

And for as much $50,000, the company will culture the cells, create embryos, implant them in a surrogate, and deliver a clone of your loved one.

But animal rights groups say forcing dogs and cats to be surrogates for clones is simply inhumane."
Pet cloning: Man's best friend, again

What say you?

As for me, I think this is totally disgusting and unethical. A sane nation would ban such things. If you are unable to accept the death of a pet, you need therapy, not some shady corporation taking your money. What happened to people getting pets as kids (or growing up on a farm or in a rural area, which is sadly more and more rare these days) and their deaths being an opportunity to learn about and accept the reality of death? A clone isn't the same individual you've lost, anyway. At best, you're making an identical twin, but a more sickly one that won't live as long. So these people are being scammed on top of it. If this crap becomes more normalized, I would expect challenges to the bans on human cloning.

I'm not sure of the whole point on cloning, but if anything, its for the greater part an unethical practice to prey on people's grief and emotions for profit.

I don't expect cloning to go away anytime soon though.

 

[Secret Chief]

As for pets, they already are, ie, bred, bought, & sold.

Yes, that is clearly how they are treated, that is the attitude. But just because you can doesn't mean you should. Some people realise a living creature is not the same as a pair of shoes.

 

[Revoltingest]

So you equate living creatures with inanimate objects.

No.

Lives as commodities. Capitalist free choice trumps any ethics.

I'm recognizing that pets are already commodities.

This dog has been bred so it can barely breathe but I will maintain the trade by buying one. Who cares for the lives of these dogs? Not me.

You missed my point that creating animals with genetic damage is wrong.
Please re-read the thread, & don't launch into objections to arguments I'm not making.

 

[Revoltingest]

When one of my cats dies I traditionally go out and kill some rightwingers. It's my money, I bought the gun and it helps me get through my grief.

Calm down.
Please re-read the thread.
I didn't propose violating laws or the rights of others.

 

[Revoltingest]

Human (mis)use of technology is an ongoing problem that will not go away any time soon. That box has already been opened. It cannot be un-opened; humans collectively don't have the wherewithal to un-open these boxes. It is only when the ability to use a tool from the box is lost that humans will stop using it. Humans are not intelligent enough to show restraint with use of technology. They are too obsessed with their own self-preservation and self-betterment to see how constantly trying to cheat death and "improve" life causes downfall for many others, including themselves.

We always have & always will wrestle with how to use technology.
Cloning is just another tool, albeit one very difficult to discuss
(as this thread shows).
Could it be that religious attitudes about "playing God" are at work?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If it's about the grieving process, who are we
to say how someone else should deal with it?

There's healthy and unhealthy methods of grieving, just as there are with coping. Like I said, this teaches that you don't have to let go of the deceased and accept that they're gone. That can foster delusion, and I don't see how it's not going to bleed over into how they view the death of a human loved one.

 

[Secret Chief]

I see no strong secular argument against cloning.

One can be secular and still see cloning pets as unethical. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on ethics.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's healthy and unhealthy methods of grieving, just as there are with coping. Like I said, this teaches that you don't have to let go of the deceased and accept that they're gone. That can foster delusion, and I don't see how it's not going to bleed over into how they view the death of a human loved one.

I don't see that being taught at all.
Moreover, it would even apply to humans. A clone would
take decades to mature, & wouldn't have grown in the same
environment. Thus the clone would be a different person,
& there'd be no immediate gratification anyway.

 

[Revoltingest]

One can be secular and still see cloning pets as unethical. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on ethics.

What is your ethical argument against cloning?
And remember, I've already said it's wrong to
clone an animal with genetic damage.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't see that being taught at all.
Moreover, it would even apply to humans. A clone would
take decades to mature, & wouldn't have grown in the same
environment. Thus the clone would be a different person,
& there'd be no immediate gratification anyway.

Did you read the article? The company seems to be encouraging that sort of thinking and the people profiled have fallen into it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Did you read the article? The company seems to be encouraging that sort of thinking and the people profiled have fallen into it.

The article would be one author's opinion.
(And that author isn't even bothering to post here.)
So I didn't read it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The article would be one author's opinion.
(And that author isn't even bothering to post here.)
So I didn't read it.

Um, okay. I can't discuss it with you then since you won't even read it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Um, okay. I can't discuss it with you then since you won't even read it.

I'm busy.
I've addressed everything you've said.
If you've left something out, please add it to the discussion.

 

[PureX]

Clones aren't really clones. All they really are, is an identical twin, born later. And as with any twins, just because they look identical does not mean that they are identical. So really, cloning a pet in the hope of keeping it 'alive' after it dies is a (self) deception. Because that's not what's happening. It's a different animal regardless of how similar it looks.

I think the real immorality of it is in it's gross stupidity. And in the fact that the 50k it took to accomplish could have put some kid through college.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm busy.
I've addressed everything you've said.
If you've left something out, please add it to the discussion.

I'm busy, right now, too. I'm at work, so that's not much of an excuse. You can read it later.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm busy, right now, too. I'm at work, so that's not much of an excuse. You can read it later.

People often expect us to read things that make arguments they
themselves won't make. This demands more time than the reading
material is often worth.
I'll address what you post. If the article makes additional arguments,
I'm sure you can state them in a few sentences.