Capitalism: why eternal growth is self-destructive

[Estro Felino]

Eternal growth is impossible: yet it's what unbridled Capitalism and the profit maximization advocate for.
They want a country to grow every year, and what does that imply?

That more cars are produced, more cars are sold: but spaces are limited and at some point, we will need to stop producing thousands and thousands of car because there will be not even one inch free.
All garages, all parking lots will be taken.
Eternal growth is suicidal and self-destructive: capitalists want more and more people on Earth, because they want more and more customers.

 

[Soandso]

It does make me wonder what will happen when we hit that breaking point. We've seen a glimpse of that when China initiated it's one child policy, but what happens when more and more countries start to feel the tightening of constraints due to growing population and it's needs? We live with finite resources, and humans are parasitic and destructive in the way they deal with the environment by and large

 

[Viker]

Eternal growth is impossible: yet it's what unbridled Capitalism and the profit maximization advocate for.
They want a country to grow every year, and what does that imply?

That more cars are produced, more cars are sold: but spaces are limited and at some point, we will need to stop producing thousands and thousands of car because there will be not even one inch free.
All garages, all parking lots will be taken.
Eternal growth is suicidal and self-destructive: capitalists want more and more people on Earth, because they want more and more customers.

It's sad that there is only a few motorcyclists in that picture.

 

[Viker]

I hate cars. Except my Toyota. I still need it to haul my babies around.

 

[Secret Chief]

In other news, two plus two is found to be four.

 

[Viker]

In other news, two plus two is found to be four.

Earth

Shattered

Just

Now

 

[PureX]

There is no such thing as "bridled capitalism".

 

[Estro Felino]

It does make me wonder what will happen when we hit that breaking point. We've seen a glimpse of that when China initiated it's one child policy, but what happens when more and more countries start to feel the tightening of constraints due to growing population and it's needs? We live with finite resources, and humans are parasitic and destructive in the way they deal with the environment by and large

Well...I guess, we should be start thinking that buses can take us everywhere, even long distances, and if we started believing in the dogma that we don't own public spaces, we just share them...maybe the shift will take place.

 

[Estro Felino]

There is no such thing as "bridled capitalism".

During the twenties and the thirties there was a form of bridled Capitalism, in my country.

 

[Estro Felino]

I hate cars. Except my Toyota. I still need it to haul my babies around.

I understand.
But I can promise you that I know people who take the car even to go to the workplace which is 500 meters away from their home.
500 meters away.
That's tragic.

We have something called legs.

 

[icehorse]

There is no such thing as "bridled capitalism".

There ARE economic systems that are not state controlled, reward invention and innovation, and do not rely on the myth that economies must grow endlessly to be healthy.

 

[Soandso]

Well...I guess, we should be start thinking that buses can take us everywhere, even long distances, and if we started believing in the dogma that we don't own public spaces, we just share them...maybe the shift will take place.

I don't know about Italy, but here in the USA we have greyhound buses for long distance travel. It's slow and it's not the most comfortable travel, but it's cheaper than airfare

Also, there's actually a bus here in Seattle that takes people to hiking spaces in the cascade mountains and it costs just as much as any other bus in the city to utilize. I think it's a cool idea!

Mount Si

Trailheads: Mount Si, Mount Teneriffe, Little Si Start point: Bus stop at Broadway and East Denny Way across from Sound Transit’s Capitol Hill Link light rail Station. End point: Bus stop…

trailheaddirect.org

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't know about Italy, but here in the USA we have greyhound buses for long distance travel. It's slow and it's not the most comfortable travel, but it's cheaper than airfare

In Italy planes have become cheaper than trains. And much faster...so...
We have also those long-distances-buses....they are pretty comfortable. Rome-Slovenia in just one night. That was fun.
Of course I live in tiny Europe. That's doable here. Maybe not in gigantic America.

Also, there's actually a bus here in Seattle that takes people to hiking spaces in the cascade mountains and it costs just as much as any other bus in the city to utilize. I think it's a cool idea!

Mount Si

Trailheads: Mount Si, Mount Teneriffe, Little Si Start point: Bus stop at Broadway and East Denny Way across from Sound Transit’s Capitol Hill Link light rail Station. End point: Bus stop…

trailheaddirect.org

All right...I was thinking of Europe...probably. But America will become like Europe, someday.

 

[Stevicus]

Eternal growth is impossible: yet it's what unbridled Capitalism and the profit maximization advocate for.
They want a country to grow every year, and what does that imply?

That more cars are produced, more cars are sold: but spaces are limited and at some point, we will need to stop producing thousands and thousands of car because there will be not even one inch free.
All garages, all parking lots will be taken.
Eternal growth is suicidal and self-destructive: capitalists want more and more people on Earth, because they want more and more customers.

I think there's a couple of different issues here, though inextricably linked throughout history. Namely, capitalism and industrialism.

I was born and raised in an industrial society, and compared to what I've read about earlier, pre-industrial societies, I think the quality of life is better today. I'm not knocking industrialism or the science and technology we use every day. The main question seems to be whether it should all be owned by a few wealthy capitalists, or whether it should be shared among the people.

But then again, if everyone gets cars and houses and so forth, that will consume a lot of resources and lead to the kinds of scenes as pictured above. If we're looking at a society where even the common people can afford to buy a car, then some might see that as a good thing. But on the other hand, perhaps society can come up with more effective and efficient means for moving large numbers of people from one place to another.

We need a better transportation system. But that would require public (i.e. "socialist") expenditures.

 

[Stevicus]

In other news, two plus two is found to be four.

Dammit! I wanted to see the movie, and now you've ruined it!

 

[Estro Felino]

I think there's a couple of different issues here, though inextricably linked throughout history. Namely, capitalism and industrialism.

I was born and raised in an industrial society, and compared to what I've read about earlier, pre-industrial societies, I think the quality of life is better today. I'm not knocking industrialism or the science and technology we use every day. The main question seems to be whether it should all be owned by a few wealthy capitalists, or whether it should be shared among the people.

Indeed. That's the point. You were born in an America where there were few cars, here and there, and so many free parking lots.
I was born in an era where traffic jams and taken parking lots are the ordinary, daily routine.
That's why I have always been disgusted by all this frenetic search for something that will not make anyone happy.
It never stops.

As Schopenhauer used to say, man is the slave to its own desires. I'd call them whims, not desires.

But then again, if everyone gets cars and houses and so forth, that will consume a lot of resources and lead to the kinds of scenes as pictured above.

Yes. I understood that when I was in fourth grade.
That's what my generation has grown up with: the mantra of overpopulation, consumerism, overexploitation of resources, rivers and lakes disappearing, deforestation, etc...

If we're looking at a society where even the common people can afford to buy a car, then some might see that as a good thing. But on the other hand, perhaps society can come up with more effective and efficient means for moving large numbers of people from one place to another.

My point was about anti-Natalism.
We have reached to a point where the collapse of mortality rate must be followed by a reduction to zero of births.

Let's fix this hellish world, first. Then we can start having children again.

We need a better transportation system. But that would require public (i.e. "socialist") expenditures.

Ah right...the bad socialism.

 

[Alien826]

Well...I guess, we should be start thinking that buses can take us everywhere, even long distances, and if we started believing in the dogma that we don't own public spaces, we just share them...maybe the shift will take place.

Covid taught us that we don't need to travel at all. All communication via the internet and food etc delivered to our doors.

Ultimately, we have The Matrix. Minimum space required for each person, minimum impact on the environment, unlimited "growth" in the virtual world.

 

[Estro Felino]

Covid taught us that we don't need to travel at all. All communication via the internet and food etc delivered to our doors.

Ultimately, we have The Matrix. Minimum space required for each person, minimum impact on the environment, unlimited "growth" in the virtual world.

Well...the situation is much serious than that.
I personally know people that in order to go to a place which is just 500 or 700 meters away, they take the car.
Despite there is:
- subway
- bus
- tram
- or you can go by foot or by bycicle, right?

And yet....I wish everyone was like people of Amsterdam:

 

[Stevicus]

Indeed. That's the point. You were born in an America where there were few cars, here and there, and so many free parking lots.
I was born in an era where traffic jams and taken parking lots are the ordinary, daily routine.
That's why I have always been disgusted by all this frenetic search for something that will not make anyone happy.
It never stops.

As Schopenhauer used to say, man is the slave to its own desires. I'd call them whims, not desires.



Yes. I understood that when I was in fourth grade.
That's what my generation has grown up with: the mantra of overpopulation, consumerism, overexploitation of resources, rivers and lakes disappearing, deforestation, etc...

My point was about anti-Natalism.
We have reached to a point where the collapse of mortality rate must be followed by a reduction to zero of births.

Let's fix this hellish world, first. Then we can start having children again.

Ah right...the bad socialism.

This is a problem which society has been grappling with for generations now. It's been a topic for as long as I've been around.

An interesting documentary series I recall from the late 70s/early 80s was called "Connections." It was quite good, and it shows that, even back in those days, there were those who understood where things were possibly headed and how we got to that point. You could probably find it on YouTube if you're interested.

But all in all, I think the public's general attitude has been to keep on business as usual. People seem to want to just stay the course and hope for the best. We may be in a technology trap, but I think most of us are hoping that technology will be able to get us out of this trap. Hopefully, some scientist or technologist or inventor will come up with some gadget to fix all these problems.

 

[Soandso]

This is a problem which society has been grappling with for generations now. It's been a topic for as long as I've been around.

An interesting documentary series I recall from the late 70s/early 80s was called "Connections." It was quite good, and it shows that, even back in those days, there were those who understood where things were possibly headed and how we got to that point. You could probably find it on YouTube if you're interested.

But all in all, I think the public's general attitude has been to keep on business as usual. People seem to want to just stay the course and hope for the best. We may be in a technology trap, but I think most of us are hoping that technology will be able to get us out of this trap. Hopefully, some scientist or technologist or inventor will come up with some gadget to fix all these problems.

It's not a technological problem imo; the problem is cultural. It's people

People are so afraid of losing the most minute amount of convenience that they are willing to turn a blind eye to gross exploitation of the planet and other people just so they can keep their little comforts. Until people are willing to acquiesce to the reality of the circumstances and accept that we have to change the way we live, things will continue down this dead end of a path