Capitalist competition is about increasing profits, not value for consumers.

[Revoltingest]

I thought about that, but then I decided to find the worst job I could imagine that paid the least, you know, just because I like the challenge. :sarcastic

You're one tough dude!

If everyone could just decide to get quit and find a better job, a lot of the places and services we all take for granted wouldn't exist. BTW, I am going to get a better job. I just need to finish college first.

Of course, compromises are useful at times.

Definitely comes from the people who shop there. Not all, some people are very kind, but a lot are just plain cruel.

Tell me about it.....you should see how tenants treated my staff (& me) at times.
I found that the "customer is always right" stuff was bogus. My staff took priority.

 

[Alceste]

I agree. It is truly amazing how much people expect someone who gets paid minimum wage to do. They expect us to give everything we can both physically and mentally, but they are only willing to give us the absolute minimum the law requires them to give. I don't know which is worse though, the customers or the store. Someone comes in there and pays 3.50 for something, they feel like they own your whole life and are damn sure going to make sure you know it.

Oh and FYI, complaining to managers about an employee is pointless. So many people complain about the dumbest crap, the management just acts like it's a big deal to shut them up, a lot of the time the employee doesn't know anyone complained.

I can talk for hours about working there, but I will just tell one story real quick while I am all worked up now. This guys comes in to the tire/lube section where I work, orders a rotation and balance and then goes up to the front desk to complain about the work that we haven't even done yet. As soon as we started pulling his tires off, my supervisor got called up to the service desk and by the time he got back we had it done. Then he told us we had to bring it back in and give him new lug nuts because he went up and complained.

I hate my job. I feel sorry for the other employees though, many are probably going to work there for a long time and they work so hard and get paid so little for it. I'm just passing through but for some, it's a career.

In my own experience, it seems that the dignity of any given job increases in direct proportion to the wages offered. Maybe something like the psychological trick we play on ourselves when we spend money comes into play - we believe whatever we've bought is actually worth what we paid for it, and care for it accordingly. That psychology probably applies just as well to hiring a minimum wage worker as it does to a $500 used car - either way, we usually just want to "drive it into the ground". Nobody in our society gets treated worse than a hard-working minimum wage slave, or better than an incompetent, over-valued multi-million dollar CEO.

I had a neat trick to deal with employers I didn't like.
I quit, & went to some place better. Worked like a charm.

I have a theory about continually disgruntled workers. I notice that of the dozens of employees I've had over the years, that some had
a bad attitude about most things that I or their immediate supervisor did. And others liked the job, & I trained them to move ahead
...usually to a better company where they could advance. The unhappy worker must consider where the problem lies....from within, or
from without, or both.

Meh. I've had a lot of bosses in my life. My way out of the game of "head-patting vs. butt kicking" you describe was being able to do things nobody else could do, or do them twice as fast as anyone else could. I never had to demonstrate any respect for my bosses or managers beyond what they were prepared to offer to me, and whenever one of them tried to exert any authority over me that I felt was uncalled for, I gave my notice and they begged me to stay. (If the begging came with a raise, I stayed - after all, don't we all work to make money?) That's not going to work for everyone though. You have to be lazy, contrary, arrogant, disrespectful and inventive to be any good at cutting all the waste from your job and automating all your menial tasks.

And that's why I don't do interviews.

 

[Alceste]

Tell me about it.....you should see how tenants treated my staff (& me) at times.
I found that the "customer is always right" stuff was bogus. My staff took priority.

Here's an anecdote from my own life - I was looking for a job back when I had no experience, firebombing Vancouver with resumes. I went into a funky clothing store where a customer was raging at a cashier because something that she'd bought had shrunk in the wash. The cashier was very bored with the whole situation and a bit rude, which made the woman more excitable. She started demanding to see "the manager" and this scary looking biker dude came out and said "is there a problem"? She started howling at him, demanding to see his manager. "I own the store" he said. Then she started raging about how the cashier was being rude. He just told her to **** off. In those words! And she did. I have never wanted to work anywhere more in my life. He interviewed me and I had no relevant skills at all, but I must have made some kind of impression because he called me a month later and offered me a job. By then I was in film school, so it wasn't meant to be, but the experience still made a lasting impression.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that I have always appreciated a business owner who can accurately weigh the worth of one lost angry customer against the worth of one abused employee.

 

[Reptillian]

No, it's not true at all. I am working at Walmart (I know, I hate myself for it) while I am in college and the mark-up on some of the products, especially electronics, is well over 100%. That doesn't exactly scream good value. Capitalism doesn't drive businesses to reduce profit and increase value, it drives businesses to pay as little as they can for a product and charge as much as people are willing to pay. Even when thing are "on sale", they aren't really on sale. Most of the time they are just set on the shelf in a way that you think you are getting a deal. It's kind of sad and a little piece of my soul dies each time I go to work.

I worked as a cart pusher at a Sam's Club all through high school...I feel your pain. My suggestion is to switch to cart pushing, it pays pretty good compared to the other jobs at Walmart because nobody wants to do it. They had a "dealing with the elements" bonus of a dollar an hour in summer and winter. I also had a Sunday bonus of a dollar an hour for skipping church (I wonder if they still do that). Although, I pushed carts back in the days before they had those fancy cart pushing machines. (I had the idea for those back when I was working there and nobody took me seriously because I was a high school kid...I could have been a millionaire!) The nice thing about cart pushing is that you don't have to interact with the customers much, you only have to help load the occasional heavy item, if you help out old people with their groceries they sometimes give you a tip, and if anyone is ever really mean to you, you can run them over with a "runaway" cart or dent/scratch their expensive sports car by smashing a cart into it...I knew just how to do it so that it looked like "the wind did it"...mwah ha ha ha haaa!

 

[freethinker44]

I worked as a cart pusher at a Sam's Club all through high school...I feel your pain. My suggestion is to switch to cart pushing, it pays pretty good compared to the other jobs at Walmart because nobody wants to do it. They had a "dealing with the elements" bonus of a dollar an hour in summer and winter. I also had a Sunday bonus of a dollar an hour for skipping church (I wonder if they still do that). Although, I pushed carts back in the days before they had those fancy cart pushing machines. (I had the idea for those back when I was working there and nobody took me seriously because I was a high school kid...I could have been a millionaire!) The nice thing about cart pushing is that you don't have to interact with the customers much, you only have to help load the occasional heavy item, if you help out old people with their groceries they sometimes give you a tip, and if anyone is ever really mean to you, you can run them over with a "runaway" cart or dent/scratch their expensive sports car by smashing a cart into it...I knew just how to do it so that it looked like "the wind did it"...mwah ha ha ha haaa!

I'm good, the cart pushers here also clean the bathrooms. And we are not allowed to accept tips of any kind.

 

[Reptillian]

I'm good, the cart pushers here also clean the bathrooms. And we are not allowed to accept tips of any kind.

The cart pushers clean the bathrooms there! Wow that would be awful.

We weren't allowed to accept tips either, but I didn't let that stop me from accepting them.

 

[Revoltingest]

The cart pushers clean the bathrooms there! Wow that would be awful.
We weren't allowed to accept tips either, but I didn't let that stop me from accepting them.

A friend of mine from high school was in a bad motorcycle accident. He was one of the advanced placement students....sharp guy.
When he came out of his coma, he suffered pretty bad brain damage, & had his IQ knocked way back into the double digits.
He now works as a cart pusher for a local big box store (Meijer) now, & likes the job.

 

[Alceste]

A friend of mine from high school was in a bad motorcycle accident. He was one of the advanced placement students....sharp guy.
When he came out of his coma, he suffered pretty bad brain damage, & had his IQ knocked way back into the double digits.
He now works as a cart pusher for a local big box store (Meijer) now, & likes the job.

I can't decide if that's a sad story or not.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can't decide if that's a sad story or not.

Both.

 

[Sunstone]

[youtube]J_dkEgNGpzY[/youtube]
Chris Hedges: The Absurdity of American Empire [FULL INTERVIEW] - YouTube

Capitalism has no self-regulation beyond making a profit.

 

[Revoltingest]

Capitalism has no self-regulation beyond making a profit.

That's why we have government....to provide a legal environment wherein capitalism functions well.
(Yes, even libertarians want some government.)

 

[Reptillian]

A friend of mine from high school was in a bad motorcycle accident. He was one of the advanced placement students....sharp guy.
When he came out of his coma, he suffered pretty bad brain damage, & had his IQ knocked way back into the double digits.
He now works as a cart pusher for a local big box store (Meijer) now, & likes the job.

I do have some pretty fond memories of that job. I always liked being outside, especially in the fall and spring. My coworkers were lots of fun too...I met some real characters in that job.

That's why we have government....to provide a legal environment wherein capitalism functions well.
(Yes, even libertarians want some government.)

I thought that the function of government was to secure the peoples' natural rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Capitalism sometimes seems to be at odds with that objective...especially when it's profitable to do so.

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought that the function of government was to secure the peoples' natural rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I don't know about rights being "natural" or not.
Rights are just things we generally agree to be rights.

Capitalism sometimes seems to be at odds with that objective...especially when it's profitable to do so.

A legal environment which prevents coercion, thievery, monopolies & fraud makes capitalism quite useful.
Socialism requires a lot of coercion to impose upon people, so it's rather unlibertyish.

 

[Reptillian]

I don't know about rights being "natural" or not.
Rights are just things we generally agree to be rights.

A legal environment which prevents coercion, thievery, monopolies & fraud makes capitalism quite useful.
Socialism requires a lot of coercion to impose upon people, so it's rather unlibertyish.

You don't agree with natural rights?...so, for example, men aren't born free and equal in your mind and there is nothing inherently wrong with things like slavery? China's human rights abuses are okay then because those who don't like living with them could just move to a different country with a more compatible philosophy?

I'm sure the capitalists could argue that a legal environment preventing coercion, monopolies, and fraud is fundamentally unlibertyish (I doubt they'd use those words...they'd couch them in more pleasant terms)

 

[Alceste]

I don't know about rights being "natural" or not.
Rights are just things we generally agree to be rights.

A legal environment which prevents coercion, thievery, monopolies & fraud makes capitalism quite useful.
Socialism requires a lot of coercion to impose upon people, so it's rather unlibertyish.

This is simply untrue. Nobody is "coercing" me to have free health care, drive on paved roads, have my garbage and sewage toted away, have electricity, a free education, and firefighters and police men at my beck and call. Whose rights are being trampled on in these examples except a handful of jerks who want to be able to charge me money for all this awesome free stuff?

 

[Revoltingest]

This is simply untrue. Nobody is "coercing" me to have free health care, drive on paved roads, have my garbage and sewage toted away, have electricity, a free education, and firefighters and police men at my beck and call. Whose rights are being trampled on in these examples except a handful of jerks who want to be able to charge me money for all this awesome free stuff?

Someone else has to pay for your largess.
This is the coercion of which I speak.

 

[Revoltingest]

You don't agree with natural rights?...so, for example, men aren't born free and equal in your mind and there is nothing inherently wrong with things like slavery? China's human rights abuses are okay then because those who don't like living with them could just move to a different country with a more compatible philosophy?

To me, "natural" means some kind of universal moral truth.
I don't believe in universal moral truth.
You & I would agree on many rights, but the only legitimacy is our agreement.

I'm sure the capitalists could argue that a legal environment preventing coercion, monopolies, and fraud is fundamentally unlibertyish (I doubt they'd use those words...they'd couch them in more pleasant terms)

I cannot speak for others.

 

[Alceste]

Someone else has to pay for your largess.
This is the coercion of which I speak.

I'm paying for it, just like everybody else who earns money in this country. We're just not paying EXTRA for it so somebody, somewhere can stuff their pockets. Again, whose rights are being infringed, and how?

 

[Reptillian]

Someone else has to pay for your largess.
This is the coercion of which I speak.

It's not like the financial burden for Canadian healthcare all falls on one dude living in Alberta. Everyone agrees to just chip in a little bit based on their income and *poof* quality healthcare whenever you need it. How is this different from insurance except in that the money doesn't go to individual businessmen who can reject people willy nilly, and in that the poor now have access to medicine?

To me, "natural" means some kind of universal moral truth.
I don't believe in universal moral truth.
You & I would agree on many rights, but the only legitimacy is our agreement.

You would agree that there are truths about human nature right? I mean, humans all eat, breathe, and drink water; so it would stand to reason that every human should have a right to access food, clean air, and drinking water.

 

[Wirey]

It's not like the financial burden for Canadian healthcare all falls on one dude living in Alberta.

Actually, I am that dude, and I don't mind.

I pay more in taxes every year then the average Canadian earns, and I don't complain a bit. I am still fantastically well off, and it's a cheap price to pay to be surrounded by hockey, beer, and unbelievably hot Alberta girls. You gotta see this place! It's like Spring Garden Road in summer all year round!