IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Accept slavery? Wow, you really have a broken moral compass.
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Cardinal Pell and Evolution
- Thread starter Kevin Armstrong
- Start date
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Read the story and this time without the bias in your head.
Audie
Veteran Member
As usual. You are just making things up.
Audie
Veteran Member
What can you expect from using a book in place of
a conscience?
Brian2
Veteran Member
I'm not claiming that I don't have free will to decide the future, that's all you. We have free will to decide the future even if God knows what we are going to decide.
God's knowing that does not mean that God is forcing me to do anything.
No I cannot do anything other than what God knows I will do, but God knows what I will freely choose to do.
Neither of us can do anything other than what we will do, in that way the future is set in stone. I suppose you disagree but of course cannot show that you can change the future with your free will.
The thing is that my argument about the future being set in stone with or without God is true but does not mean that we don't use our free will to get there,,,, and God knowing our free choices does not mean we don't freely make the choices.
Whether it is the future or God knowing what we will choose, that does not take our free will away.
Any argument against that is nothing but sophistry imo.
Brian2
Veteran Member
God teaches us right and wrong, and right and wrong is not always black and white even if black and white is what we find in moral commands. It is more nuanced than that and for the Israelites in OT times, they knew they could trust God to not command them to do things that are wrong, even if on the surface they went against the moral code God had commanded.
So killing in war goes against the "Do not kill" commandment, and that is a problem with black and white commandments, they do not say it all.
No, God does not judge us guilty for the sins of our parents even if we suffer the consequences of those sins.
So I suffer when my father gets drunk and violent and beats me up. That is not God saying that I am guilty.
Brian2
Veteran Member
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Either you have free will and your decisions shape your future, or you don't.
Can't have it both ways.
So a pre-determined future can't exist in the same universe as free will.
You have to pick one or the other.
Otherwise, you end up with a married bachelor.
To illustrate....
I go to a restaurant.
Either I have free will and can freely choose between chicken or steak, or I don't.
If it is predetermined that I'll eat chicken, then I can't freely choose steak instead.
It's one or the other.
Either the future of what I'll eat is uncertain until I make a decision, or it is predetermined and I only, at best, had the illusion of choice.
Again: can't have it both ways.
If it is done exactly as said in the Bible, not in the way you imagine. Then it is less worse than a government with mandatory taxation.
Taxation is never ending. Slavery by all Biblical rules would eventually end. And because it could in a way save person for example from foreign tyranny, I think it is ok.
Murder is unjust killing. Death penalty is not unjust killing and therefore not murder.
If evil people don't die, evil continues forever.
By people rejecting God.
God decides how many days you can have. You can decide how many days you accept. God could decide that you get more than you want. So, it is in God's hands, but I believe He also can let people have what they want.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The Bible allows one to beat ones slave. Almost to death. In fact, as long as they don't die for at least two days after a severe beating the owner was fine.
You could as well say Bible allows to beat everyone. There is no direct rule not to beat anyone.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Wrong. The Bible does not say that it is okay to beat each other. But it does say that you can beat your slaves. Oh, and rape the female ones.
Where in the Bible it is said "you can beat your slaves", or "you can rape"?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Wow! I am shocked that you have to ask. Exodus 21 20-21:
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
Audie
Veteran Member
Soooo- you want public services like
roads, street lights, police, etc and blah to
be free for you. Let everyone else be your
slaves and pay for you.
Last edited:
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Like I said, you have a broken moral compass.
Brian2
Veteran Member
If God knew that we have free will and all our future actions would be governed by our free will, that would mean that we would not be able to act in any other way than with our free will and so that means we would have no free will.
Is that what you are saying?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
No that's not what I said. What I said actually made sense.
Once again you have to appeal to absurdities to defend your absurd beliefs.
It's really simple and I don't know how to present it any simpler then I already did.
Either the future is predetermined (and perfect foreknowledge is possible) or it isn't.
If it is predetermined, then free will can't exist. Because a predetermined future necessarily means that all your future choices and decisions are also predetermined.
If your choices and decisions are NOT predetermined, then the future is uncertain until it occurs and is shaped by choices and decisions.
It's one or the other.
If it's predetermined that I will eat chicken, then I never had the free choice of going for steak instead. At best, I only had the illusion of choice.
What part of this don't you comprehend?