Catholic Church on contraceptives

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And I think it's better to use contraceptives than have unprepared, unwanted pregnancy then end up aborting the child or not being able to support its needs (which will eventually end up on child's malnutrition, envy to other kids, and other factors that could make the child's life agonizing and miserable)

That brings up the other issue: I think that it's hypocritical for the Church to both call abortion "murder" and at the same time forbid contraception in all cases.

 

[Renji]

It's called controlling the masses with authority.

Yeah I know right. But I'd rather call it hypocrisy.

 

[Renji]

That brings up the other issue: I think that it's hypocritical for the Church to both call abortion "murder" and at the same time forbid contraception in all cases.

Agreed. Supposedly, it is the Church' job to educate and not to promote ignorance. If they call what I'm doing (opposing them) heresy or sin, I'd rather call it as "thinking out of the box" or looking at an issue on a different way.

 

[RomCat]

I believe that artificial contraception is evil.
Read the Catholic Catechism to find out why.
I contend the sorry state of the family unit in
this country is do to the widespread use of artificial
contraceptives - i.e. divorce, common law marriages,
undisciplined youth and, of course, abortion.
In addition, most contraceptives take the life of a
human baby already concieved in its mother's womb.
There is no population problem in the world. As matter
of fact, Japan and Russia are offering incentives to
couples to have children because of their declining popu-
lation. Also, because of the widespread use of contraception
by the Europeans for many years, Muslims will be running
that continent in another 50 years.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Why is the RC church so against the use of contraceptives? ..

That's one of the worst teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I love how contraceptives somehow interfere with God's Law, like God can somehow be defeated with a small piece of plastic. I also love how they say that husbands who want their wives to contracept don't love them as much as husbands who want it naturally.

I also love it when they defend their stance on contraception but then turn around and proclaim NFP to be the best thing since sliced bread, even though the target outcome is the same for both.

I love Catholicism but this and a few other things are why I'll never be Catholic. I don't think I'm prepared to let a church full of virgins and eunuchs tell me that I don't love my wife as much as the non-contracepting couple next to me.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't think I'm prepared to let a church full of virgins and eunuchs tell me that I don't love my wife as much as the non-contracepting couple next to me.

Maybe you should look up that word.

 

[Wotan]

I love how contraceptives somehow interfere with God's Law, like God can somehow be defeated with a small piece of plastic. I also love how they say that husbands who want their wives to contracept don't love them as much as husbands who want it naturally.

I also love it when they defend their stance on contraception but then turn around and proclaim NFP to be the best thing since sliced bread, even though the target outcome is the same for both.

I love Catholicism but this and a few other things are why I'll never be Catholic. I don't think I'm prepared to let a church full of virgins and eunuchs tell me that I don't love my wife as much as the non-contracepting couple next to me.

Not only you NOT love her as much as some mindless automaton - you CAN'T!

 

[Looncall]

I believe that artificial contraception is evil.
Read the Catholic Catechism to find out why.
I contend the sorry state of the family unit in
this country is do to the widespread use of artificial
contraceptives - i.e. divorce, common law marriages,
undisciplined youth and, of course, abortion.
In addition, most contraceptives take the life of a
human baby already concieved in its mother's womb.
There is no population problem in the world. As matter
of fact, Japan and Russia are offering incentives to
couples to have children because of their declining popu-
lation. Also, because of the widespread use of contraception
by the Europeans for many years, Muslims will be running
that continent in another 50 years.

This is a good example of the adverse effects of religion on morality. What we have here is a litany of lies, bigotry and just plain nonsense. Just the usual from a "good christian". It is to laugh.

 

[ninerbuff]

I believe that artificial contraception is evil.
Read the Catholic Catechism to find out why.
I contend the sorry state of the family unit in
this country is do to the widespread use of artificial
contraceptives - i.e. divorce, common law marriages,
undisciplined youth and, of course, abortion.
In addition, most contraceptives take the life of a
human baby already concieved in its mother's womb.
There is no population problem in the world. As matter
of fact, Japan and Russia are offering incentives to
couples to have children because of their declining popu-
lation. Also, because of the widespread use of contraception
by the Europeans for many years, Muslims will be running
that continent in another 50 years.

Right, so if there is no population problem in the world, why are overcrowded countries having issues with starvation?
Ask yourself this as a catholic: with as much money as some of the gold in the Vatican is worth, where is that money going too? It ain't the poor.

The Pope: Richest man on earth?

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Maybe you should look up that word.

I already did.

 

[Mister Emu]

If the Church was to actually recognize the intelligence and free will of its members, this would only imply that the Church should allow a variety of positions on issues where intelligent, free people can reasonably disagree.

The Church does allow for much discussion and disagreement on many issues. Everyone feels their disagreement is reasonable.

Also, keep in mind that the OP described a situation where the Church was trying to use its influence to manipulate secular law.

As much as politicians would prefer the opposite, being a politician does not relieve one of their moral duties.

That brings up the other issue: I think that it's hypocritical for the Church to both call abortion "murder" and at the same time forbid contraception in all cases.

How is that hypocritical? Those two teachings do not contradict each other at all...

They can always GIVE ADVICE or GIVE SUCH ALTERNATIVES but they should not impose themselves.

They should not proscribe abortion, or murder, etc.? They can always give advice not to do it, or an alternative, but shouldn't impose themselves?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Church does allow for much discussion and disagreement on many issues. Everyone feels their disagreement is reasonable.

But it doesn't allow disagreement on this issue, where allowance of contraceptive use is eminently reasonable.

OTOH, there are many cases where, IMO, a prohibition on contraception is unreasonable to the point of being downright evil.

As much as politicians would prefer the opposite, being a politician does not relieve one of their moral duties.

A politician's first duty is to the electorate, not his church. If his religious dictates get in the way of the duties of his office, he should resign.

Edit: also, consider what excommunication implies: the politician who does not go along with the Church would be cut off from the sacraments. This would make it entirely likely that he would die in a state of mortal sin.

If a gangster went to a politician and said "if you don't vote how I want you to vote on this bill, I'll shoot you in the head", he would be guilty of several crimes. To a believer, the Church's implied threat is even worse; why should we consider it acceptable to have our elected representatives manipulated in this way?

How is that hypocritical? Those two teachings do not contradict each other at all...

Contraception eliminates the occasion for abortion. A fetus that is never conceived in the first place can never be aborted. If the Church really is concerned with stopping abortion and knows that people won't follow its teachings on chastity, then it's hypocritical for it to try to forbid those people from using contraception.

 

[Mister Emu]

But it doesn't allow disagreement on this issue, where allowance of contraceptive use is eminently reasonable.

As I noted, everyone views their disagreements as reasonable... not that yours is necessarily not, but a declaration from the disagreer that they are reasonable in their disagreement cannot be the deciding factor in whether it is considered so or not.

A politician's first duty is to the electorate, not his church. If his religious dictates get in the way of the duties of his office, he should resign.

I agree to a point. If you hold deep convictions on issues and are forthright about it and are still elected, you would not be failing your duty to the electorate if you hold to those convictions. If it is widely available that you hold to Catholic morality, you do nothing wrong in standing by that.

also, consider what excommunication implies: the politician who does not go along with the Church would be cut off from the sacraments. This would make it entirely likely that he would die in a state of mortal sin.

If a gangster went to a politician and said "if you don't vote how I want you to vote on this bill, I'll shoot you in the head", he would be guilty of several crimes. To a believer, the Church's implied threat is even worse; why should we consider it acceptable to have our elected representatives manipulated in this way?

Excommunication is just the near tautology, if you do not behave as a member of a community, you will not be part of it.

If the Church really is concerned with stopping abortion and knows that people won't follow its teachings on chastity, then it's hypocritical for it to try to forbid those people from using contraception.

The Church, as Jesus commanded, tries to point towards perfection, not efficiency. What is right cannot be compromised in favor of what is effacious.

 

[jmvizanko]

I believe that artificial contraception is evil.
Read the Catholic Catechism to find out why.
I contend the sorry state of the family unit in
this country is do to the widespread use of artificial
contraceptives - i.e. divorce, common law marriages,
undisciplined youth and, of course, abortion.
In addition, most contraceptives take the life of a
human baby already concieved in its mother's womb.
There is no population problem in the world. As matter
of fact, Japan and Russia are offering incentives to
couples to have children because of their declining popu-
lation. Also, because of the widespread use of contraception
by the Europeans for many years, Muslims will be running
that continent in another 50 years.

The world has finite resources, ie energy sources, metals, etc. If the population gets too large, these resources will have to be obtained from exponentially more expensive and difficult to reach sources. If the population keeps growing exponentially, the quality of life will eventually not be able to keep up with it, and quite in fact, will plummet because of how much it has to spread out. Why does this basic fact not register with the "there is no overpopulation problem, because my bible, or church, says there shouldn't be" crowd? They must not understand basic math.

May I ask, are you opposed to permanent birth control, such as vasectomy? Or do you think we should just make people until there is not enough food, energy, and supplies to go around, and you can't go 5 feet without being on top of somebody?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As I noted, everyone views their disagreements as reasonable... not that yours is necessarily not, but a declaration from the disagreer that they are reasonable in their disagreement cannot be the deciding factor in whether it is considered so or not.

In any disagreement, there are at least two disagreers. You are also arguing that your side is reasonable.

BTW - what IS a deciding factor?

I agree to a point. If you hold deep convictions on issues and are forthright about it and are still elected, you would not be failing your duty to the electorate if you hold to those convictions. If it is widely available that you hold to Catholic morality, you do nothing wrong in standing by that.

How about the significant number of Catholic politicians who declare that their faith is a matter of their own personal conscience and won't intrude into public policy?

In your country, Kennedy comes to mind. In mine, Jean Chretien and Paul Martin, who were both threatened with excommunication when they refused to follow the Catholic Church's wishes when voting on legislation.

Excommunication is just the near tautology, if you do not behave as a member of a community, you will not be part of it.

Perhaps... in the same sense that the crew of the Maersk Dubai decided that their stowaways would not be part of their shipboard "community". If we accept the teachings of the Catholic faith as true, then excommunication is the moral equivalent of their actions.

The Church, as Jesus commanded, tries to point towards perfection, not efficiency. What is right cannot be compromised in favor of what is effacious.

And you don't consider higher abortion rates to be a compromise of "what is right"?

 

[Looncall]

I agree to a point. If you hold deep convictions on issues and are forthright about it and are still elected, you would not be failing your duty to the electorate if you hold to those convictions. If it is widely available that you hold to Catholic morality, you do nothing wrong in standing by that.

I rather expect that people prefer to be governed by their fellow countrymen, not by a bunch of senile perverts huddled away in the vatican.

 

[Renji]

I believe that artificial contraception is evil.
Read the Catholic Catechism to find out why.
I contend the sorry state of the family unit in
this country is do to the widespread use of artificial
contraceptives - i.e. divorce, common law marriages,
undisciplined youth and, of course, abortion.
In addition, most contraceptives take the life of a
human baby already concieved in its mother's womb.
There is no population problem in the world. As matter
of fact, Japan and Russia are offering incentives to
couples to have children because of their declining popu-
lation. Also, because of the widespread use of contraception
by the Europeans for many years, Muslims will be running
that continent in another 50 years.

Dude, I'm also a Catholic but I hate ignorance.

So if contraceptive is evil, then preventing STD is also evil???

 

[Renji]

They should not proscribe abortion, or murder, etc.? They can always give advice not to do it, or an alternative, but shouldn't impose themselves?

The church could at least allow people to choose whether or not to use contraceptives.. THEY CAN ALWAYS GIVE THEIR OPINIONS ON SUCH ISSUES BUT THEY SHOULD NOT IMPOSE THEMSELVES ESPECIALLY ON THE MATTERS THAT CONCERN THE STATE, WHICH IS SUPPOSEDLY UNDER THE GOVERNMENT AND ITS LAWS. Secondly, would you consider it "RIGHT" when the church wants to take control over a particular law or bill and threatening the politicians of CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE if the reproductive health bill passed and implemented? How does civil disobedience affect our country if ever? It would make a bad impression on our country. Some would think that Filipinos do not follow rules of their own government and would think that Philippines is chaotic. If that happens, the economy would be greatly affected for the tourism will deteriorate, making the problem of poverty here worse. And for your info, use of contraceptives does not promote abortion, but rather prevent it.

 

[Renji]

Right, so if there is no population problem in the world, why are overcrowded countries having issues with starvation?
Ask yourself this as a catholic: with as much money as some of the gold in the Vatican is worth, where is that money going too? It ain't the poor.

The Pope: Richest man on earth?

Listen to this guy, he is also aware of what's happening here on our country.