Celibacy in spiritual lifestyle

[Deeje]

The idea he Jesus was sent to earth to save people was created by the gospel writers,

Who says so? The idea of Jesus' mission was created by scripture written centuries before he was born. Among other things, it outlined the exact town where he would be born, (there were two Bethlehems) that his mother would be a virgin, and that he would suffer and be put to death. It was also prophesied that a close companion would betray him. The gospel writers identified him by what was written in their scripture.

You don't know the guy was celibate, you wish to believe that to be true. He could have been married for all we know, the gospel writers don't mention his private life.

You don't really know much about him, do you?
As a spiritual leader and teacher, he didn't have much of a private life. Everywhere he went people flocked to him. His life was very public. He had no time or inclination for marriage, because he knew that his mission could not include it. Unlike other humans, he had perfect self control, and breaking the law of God on sexual misconduct would have been unthinkable.

The times when he sought solitude, he was often interrupted....but he put the needs of others above his own.

It would have been most unusual for a man of his age to be unmarried, and if that had been the case they might have drawn that to public attention, which they didn't.

Are you making this up? As the firstborn male in his family, Jesus was dedicated to God. (Exodus 13:2) His unmarried status was not at all unusual because it was the unmarried status of women that caused them to feel unfulfilled in Jewish society.

As firstborn, he was responsible for the care of his widowed mother. As he was dying, Jesus assigned her care to his Apostle John, despite the fact that he had male siblings. He did this because his family members were devout Jews, but not yet believers in his role as God's Messiah....they became believers only after his death and resurrection.

It's so easy to sit on the sidelines and make these groundless statements, so can you at least educate yourself about the subject under discussion before you say things that are not true.

Does your own belief system (or lack of it) require that Jesus not be who Christians think he is? What is your motive in saying these things? Does agnosticism require these kinds of responses to feed itself more doubt? Or are you fishing for truth?

Please help me understand.

 

[Bear Wild]

Sexuality to me is beautiful when its faithful love, and well worth waiting for. I just dont see it as the greatest love by far.

Not the greatest but a wonderful part of a healthy relationship.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not the greatest but a wonderful part of a healthy relationship.

It usually is part of a healthy relationship when people are younger or even middle-aged, but the human body was not designed to have sex in older age. When people age their bodies also age and to try to overcome that with pills only shows that people cannot move on to the next stage of their life, and start thinking about things that really matter. Quite frankly it shows that they are attached to things of the flesh. Been there, done that, I have no interest in ever going back.

There are many things in life that are much more wonderful than sex, but I had to give up sex in order to find them. I am so much happier now, and I never looked back for one moment.

 

[Bear Wild]

It usually is part of a healthy relationship when people are younger or even middle-aged, but the human body was not designed to have sex in older age. When people age their bodies also age and to try to overcome that with pills only shows that people cannot move on to the next stage of their life, and start thinking about things that really matter. Quite frankly it shows that they are attached to things of the flesh. Been there, done that, I have no interest in ever going back.

There are many things in life that are much more wonderful than sex, but I had to give up sex in order to find them. I am so much happier now, and I never looked back for one moment.

I totally disagree with that statement. Yes there is a point when illness or extreme advanced age may limit sexual activity but sexual activity is not limited by age so two people whether in their 70's or 80's and even 90's who love each other can have sex without pills and even if they were to use something to help it does mean that they are attached to things of the flesh. It just means they enjoy the intimacy experience in sexual activity. There are many other things that important in addition to sexual intimacy but you do not need to give up sex to find them. You may be happier but others would say just the opposite. There is nothing in the quest for spiritually or enlightenment that requires for someone to give up sexuality.

 

[Trailblazer]

I totally disagree with that statement. Yes there is a point when illness or extreme advanced age may limit sexual activity but sexual activity is not limited by age so two people whether in their 70's or 80's and even 90's who love each other can have sex without pills and even if they were to use something to help it does mean that they are attached to things of the flesh. It just means they enjoy the intimacy experience in sexual activity.

That might be true if they are able to continue having sex into old age with no pills, but if they would risk their health by taking dangerous pills, then you have to ask why sex is so important to them. Then you might also want to ask if the purpose of our lives is to enjoy ourselves.

There are many other things that important in addition to sexual intimacy but you do not need to give up sex to find them.

Maybe not, but once you find them you need time to do something with them. There are only so many hours in a day. One has to set priorities, and how they spend their time shows what their priorities are.

You may be happier but others would say just the opposite. There is nothing in the quest for spiritually or enlightenment that requires for someone to give up sexuality.

Sex is not a spiritual act, it is a physical act which is engaged in either for procreation or pleasure or both. If ones' mind is on sex it cannot also be on God and other activities that would further the interests of the human race. So to the extent that one's mind is on sex, that subtracts from other thoughts, and to the extent that one engages in sex it subtracts from other activities. It is a simple math formula.

There is nothing in the quest for spiritually or enlightenment that requires someone to give up sexuality, but the more one sacrifices their own selfish desires for God and other people the more spiritual they will become. That is why all the great religions have enjoined us to sacrifice self for God and others.

 

[dianaiad]

Having sex outside the marriage bonds....and enthusiastically engaging in it inside the marriage bonds, is the best way to deal with the whole situation.

Celibacy for religious reasons? Well....if you can't do it just because it's a whole lot less stressful, and considerably better for human relationships, than NOT being celibate (remembering that celibacy is for single people) then doing it for religious reasons ends up having the same results as being celibate for the sake of common sense.

I have never seen someone who was NOT celibate who didn't have a whole lot of problems s/he wouldn't otherwise have to deal with. I've seen it with family, friends...and just about every TV reality show and soap opera I've ever been made to watch.

Sheesh.

Now me, what can I say....I've only had sex with one man in my life and I married him first. Why do I get the feeling that I'm not only very unusual, but that I'm supposed to be embarrassed about that?

But here's the thing: I've never had to worry about STD's, pregnancy scares, sneaking around and hoping that nobody 'catches' me, getting all full of angst over who is sleeping with whom, whether my boyfriends like me for me...or just because I let them have bed play.

There are a great many advantages to being celibate outside of marriage. More, I think, than there are to playing around. Call me old fashioned. Call me a prude.

You can also call me fondly remembering just how much fun sex is when one doesn't have to find excuses for enjoying it.

 

[arthra]

What is your understanding (not your view) on living in celibacy when living a spiritual life? When both people in a relationship live a spiritual life, and live in celibacy, what is your view on it?

For me "celibacy" is more about our thoughts and behavior than say a formal monastic order. A few synonyms of the word: " abstinence · self-denial · self-restraint · abnegation ".

Another concept is chastity. For Baha'is chastity is enjoined and I'm not referring here to monastic orders:

"A chaste and holy life must be made the controlling principle in the behavior and conduct of all Bahá’ís, both in their social relations with the members of their own community, and in their contact with the world at large."

 

[Trailblazer]

Now me, what can I say....I've only had sex with one man in my life and I married him first. Why do I get the feeling that I'm not only very unusual, but that I'm supposed to be embarrassed about that?

No, you are not the only one....
When we got married I was 32, he was 42, and we were both virgins...
Now here we are 33.5 years later.
There is nothing to be embarrassed about...

 

[Bear Wild]

That might be true if they are able to continue having sex into old age with no pills, but if they would risk their health by taking dangerous pills, then you have to ask why sex is so important to them. Then you might also want to ask if the purpose of our lives is to enjoy ourselves.

Maybe not, but once you find them you need time to do something with them. There are only so many hours in a day. One has to set priorities, and how they spend their time shows what their priorities are.

Sex is not a spiritual act, it is a physical act which is engaged in either for procreation or pleasure or both. If ones' mind is on sex it cannot also be on God and other activities that would further the interests of the human race. So to the extent that one's mind is on sex, that subtracts from other thoughts, and to the extent that one engages in sex it subtracts from other activities. It is a simple math formula.

There is nothing in the quest for spiritually or enlightenment that requires someone to give up sexuality, but the more one sacrifices their own selfish desires for God and other people the more spiritual they will become. That is why all the great religions have enjoined us to sacrifice self for God and others.

Sex in the correct setting is a very spiritual act. It is not just physical, procreation or just pleasure and it certainly is not distracting from god. Humans were designed to have sex and it is a natural process. There is no simple math formula only simple minds that cannot perceive that sexuality is healthy and important in the intimacy between two people who live each other. It strengthens the bond and creates a deeper connection. In the wrong setting it can be destructive. As for god, she knows this is an important aspect of human behavior so I do not think she will have a problem with it. And it is not a simple math formula only simple minds that cannot see how sexuality can be spiritual. Not all of the great religions as us to abstain from sexuality. There are great religions that see sexuality as a positive force. Celibacy can be selfish too and there are many human behaviors that are truly selfish including the misuse of the gifts that the earth gives to us.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sex in the correct setting is a very spiritual act. It is not just physical, procreation or just pleasure and it certainly is not distracting from god. Humans were designed to have sex and it is a natural process. There is no simple math formula only simple minds that cannot perceive that sexuality is healthy and important in the intimacy between two people who live each other. It strengthens the bond and creates a deeper connection. In the wrong setting it can be destructive. As for god, she knows this is an important aspect of human behavior so I do not think she will have a problem with it. And it is not a simple math formula only simple minds that cannot see how sexuality can be spiritual. Not all of the great religions as us to abstain from sexuality. There are great religions that see sexuality as a positive force. Celibacy can be selfish too and there are many human behaviors that are truly selfish including the misuse of the gifts that the earth gives to us.

We all have different beliefs and we will interpret life according to those beliefs. I used to try to circumvent what my religion teaches so I could have it my way but then after I read more I realized I could not do that anymore and still pretend to be a believer.

I do not believe that sex is a spiritual act because of how I interpret my religious scriptures. Mind you there are others who are of my religion who disagree with me. I just cannot see it that way.

I do not believe humans are animals so they were not designed to have sex like animals do. God is calling us to struggle against our animal nature and to become who we truly are: not sexual beings, but spiritual beings who are in control of the physical side of our nature and who can thus find true happiness living in conformity with God’s will.

I am not saying that sex distracts from God for everyone, only that it does for me. All people have their own thresholds as to what intervenes between them and God, so I do not think it is good to generalize. I just know my own experience and I would not want to go back there because I have broken free of it after many years of being trapped with selfish desires that were not about God. I know that the two cannot abide in my heart.

I do not want to be attached to the world because it comes in between me and God, so sex is not in any special category; it is just one thing that I could become attached to.

My religion does not teach that we should abstain, but rather that the proper use of the sex instinct is the right of every individual, and the proper use is within marriage. Sex can be viewed as one of the “good things God has allowed.” However, I do not think sex is a “necessary” part of a relationship or that it is unhealthy to abstain. Psychologists used to say that but not any longer. Abstaining within marriage is a choice and it can be for many reasons, including relationship issues, time constraints or old age.

“Whatsoever deterreth you, in this Day, from loving God is nothing but the world. Flee it, that ye may be numbered with the blest. Should a man wish to adorn himself with the ornaments of the earth, to wear its apparels, or partake of the benefits it can bestow, no harm can befall him, if he alloweth nothing whatever to intervene between him and God, for God hath ordained every good thing, whether created in the heavens or in the earth, for such of His servants as truly believe in Him. Eat ye, O people, of the good things which God hath allowed you, and deprive not yourselves from His wondrous bounties. Render thanks and praise unto Him, and be of them that are truly thankful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 276​

 

[JJ50]

We all have different beliefs and we will interpret life according to those beliefs. I used to try to circumvent what my religion teaches so I could have it my way but then after I read more I realized I could not do that anymore and still pretend to be a believer.

I do not believe that sex is a spiritual act because of how I interpret my religious scriptures. Mind you there are others who are of my religion who disagree with me. I just cannot see it that way.

I do not believe humans are animals so they were not designed to have sex like animals do. God is calling us to struggle against our animal nature and to become who we truly are: not sexual beings, but spiritual beings who are in control of the physical side of our nature and who can thus find true happiness living in conformity with God’s will.

I am not saying that sex distracts from God for everyone, only that it does for me. All people have their own thresholds as to what intervenes between them and God, so I do not think it is good to generalize. I just know my own experience and I would not want to go back there because I have broken free of it after many years of being trapped with selfish desires that were not about God. I know that the two cannot abide in my heart.

I do not want to be attached to the world because it comes in between me and God, so sex is not in any special category; it is just one thing that I could become attached to.

My religion does not teach that we should abstain, but rather that the proper use of the sex instinct is the right of every individual, and the proper use is within marriage. Sex can be viewed as one of the “good things God has allowed.” However, I do not think sex is a “necessary” part of a relationship or that it is unhealthy to abstain. Psychologists used to say that but not any longer. Abstaining within marriage is a choice and it can be for many reasons, including relationship issues, time constraints or old age.

“Whatsoever deterreth you, in this Day, from loving God is nothing but the world. Flee it, that ye may be numbered with the blest. Should a man wish to adorn himself with the ornaments of the earth, to wear its apparels, or partake of the benefits it can bestow, no harm can befall him, if he alloweth nothing whatever to intervene between him and God, for God hath ordained every good thing, whether created in the heavens or in the earth, for such of His servants as truly believe in Him. Eat ye, O people, of the good things which God hath allowed you, and deprive not yourselves from His wondrous bounties. Render thanks and praise unto Him, and be of them that are truly thankful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 276​

Humans are an animal species but are more evolved than the others.

 

[Trailblazer]

Humans are an animal species but are more evolved than the others.

Humans are more than just animals. They are spiritual beings.
Only humans have a rational soul which sets them apart from all other animals.
Humans have free will and the ability to think in the abstract, the ability to discover and create, because they have a soul.

 

[JJ50]

Humans are more than just animals. They are spiritual beings.
Only humans have a rational soul which sets them apart from all other animals.
Humans have free will and the ability to think in the abstract, the ability to discover and create, because they have a soul.

I am not 'spiritual' at all, thank goodness.

A soul is just another term for consciousness, which ceases to be when we die, imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

A soul is just another term for consciousness, which ceases to be when we die, imo.

The soul is responsible for our consciousness but it does not cease to exist when we die. The soul lives on and so does our consciousness.

 

[JJ50]

The soul is responsible for our consciousness but it does not cease to exist when we die. The soul lives on and so does our consciousness.

A belief NOT a fact.

 

[Looncall]

The soul is responsible for our consciousness but it does not cease to exist when we die. The soul lives on and so does our consciousness.

How do you know this is the case?

 

[GoodbyeDave]

A soul is just another term for consciousness, which ceases to be when we die, imo.

Perhaps you need more facts and fewer opinions! I can recommend
Carl B. Becker. Paranormal experience and the survival of death. State University of NY Press, 1993.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

The idea of Jesus' mission was created by scripture written centuries before he was born. Among other things, it outlined the exact town where he would be born, (there were two Bethlehems) that his mother would be a virgin, and that he would suffer and be put to death.

I know this is off-topic, but I can't let this one pass.

The one gospel which we can confidently say was written by the man whose name it bares is Mark: and it's based on the memories of Peter. So where does Mark mention Bethlehem or a virgin birth?

Matthew and Luke have Jesus born in Bethlehem, but contradict each other on how this came about. John has Jesus coming from Nazareth.

The letters of Paul are also (mostly) authentic and he says that Jesus was physically descended from David, which implies he was the son of Joseph.

The interpretations of the OT as prophecies of Jesus are all contested by the Jews, who presumably know their own scriptures!

 

[Bear Wild]

Humans are more than just animals. They are spiritual beings.
Only humans have a rational soul which sets them apart from all other animals.
Humans have free will and the ability to think in the abstract, the ability to discover and create, because they have a soul.

Non-human animals are just as spiritual as humans. Do not be so arrogant. Ethnology is starting to make advances in our understanding of non-human behavior showing they have rituals, understand death and show grief. They demonstrate altruistic behaviors, the ability to think in the abstract, they have the ability to discover and create and the have just as much of a soul as humans have. Humans are animals only arrogant humans are blind enough not to see this.

 

[Trailblazer]

A belief NOT a fact.

I never said it was a fact.
It is a belief, but beliefs can be just as true as facts.