leibowde84
Veteran Member
Yet another mystery that will be fun to try and figure out.
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Challenge for atheists/ atheist position
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
The best general argument I know for getting a theist to understand disbelief in their God is to list all the other Gods and ask them to consider their belief in those Gods.
Do you believe in:
Zeus?: No
Odin?: No
Ra?: No
Kokopelli?: No
Vishnu?: No
Horus? No
Poseidon? No
Apollo? No
1000 other: No
Yahweh?: Yes? Yes? You don't see that the only reason you answer yes to Yahweh was because you were fed a steady diet of mythology as a child? If you were born elsewhere, Yahweh would be a No and Visnhu would be a Yes.
When you come to realize this great truth, you realize men invent Gods and not the other way around. To persist that your God is real while all the others are fake is denial of the tallest order.
Do you believe in:
Zeus?: No
Odin?: No
Ra?: No
Kokopelli?: No
Vishnu?: No
Horus? No
Poseidon? No
Apollo? No
1000 other: No
Yahweh?: Yes? Yes? You don't see that the only reason you answer yes to Yahweh was because you were fed a steady diet of mythology as a child? If you were born elsewhere, Yahweh would be a No and Visnhu would be a Yes.
When you come to realize this great truth, you realize men invent Gods and not the other way around. To persist that your God is real while all the others are fake is denial of the tallest order.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Arguments can easily be put up against all deities known to date. So, your point here is absurd. Your OP claim is merely too vague for any rational argument for or against. You have to define what kind of theism you are referring to. And, yes, the same would be necessary for a vague claim like atheism.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
You are asking us to convince you that your beliefs are wrong, but you refuse to explain what those beliefs are specifically?
As a strong non-atheist myself, I agree with the atheists here in that you need to define your theism in more detail to conduct a debate. Just a point from someone on your side of the great divide.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Well-put.
Thanks. But thinking about this further some atheists can argue for the truth of 'materialism' which would then exclude any type of theism. And most atheists are 'materialists'.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Most atheists are not materialists. Where did you get that from?
From Wikipedia
Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all phenomena, including mental phenomena and consciousness, are identical with material interactions.
What do atheists believe in that is not Materialism? I think a lot of people don't fully grasp the definition's meaning.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Karma, the power of positive thinking, Clair voyance, time, Deja Vu, morality due to societal evolution, etc.
The list is endless. All of the atheists I know personally are very spiritual people, heavy into the search for enlightenment. They just don't believe in God/gods.
dust1n
Zindīq
Can you convince me there isn't a notoriously evasive squirrel names Lars on the planet Mars? Here is the thing though, I'm not going to tell you anything about Lars at all. You'll have to simply present your argument, or realize that you don't have an argument suitable and pass on the challenge... challenge... challenge... challenge... I'm an honest person, totally not, like, all in love with Lars; just believe in him. No tricks here.
Well let's slow this down and address each thing on your list one at a time. Wouldn't you agree that if these things exist then there must be a mechanism by which they operate? Let's start with your first item 'Karma'. How do you think Karma operates? Is there some mysterious force that can determine subjectively what is good/bad and return good/bad? Most atheists would say 'No' to that last question.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
So, you are implying that ''theism'' hence atheism , by default, are meaningless terms, without signifiers, and specifications, etc. Even the broad context is not enough for people to present an argument. In this case, it is not ''theism'', that is being argued, then, is it? And if it's not theism, then it can't be ''atheism''. (literally)
/by the way, I did give some parameters, are those not specific enough, in your opinion?
So if they present an argument against the Christian God, this would not argue against 'theism'; just against the Christian God. How can they make an argument against every possible theism?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
This is very problematic, though, because if it is too specific, then it becomes semantic; for example, I am not going to have the same idea of the Xian God as many people, so then it becomes many arguments instead of a debate focused on the theism aspect.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
It appears so far that no one can do it. Worse still, it appears most don't seem to have a clue what it is they don't believe in.
There are so many things I don't believe in that it's hard to know where to start.
But his question didn't address this directly.
And it didn't require debunking his beliefs (whatever they are).
The actual question (with its accompanying prescriptions) is simple & easy to answer.
I cannot, because....
- No beliefs are presented.
- Even if he stated them, I presume he's heard arguments against them before,
& still holds the beliefs he holds. I doubt that I'd be able to offer anything different.
Last edited:
Koldo
Outstanding Member
But you did say 'Can you convince me that I'm incorrect in my theism?'.
That's VERY specific.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What's theism? ;0)
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
So if they present an argument against the Christian God, this would not argue against 'theism'; just against the Christian God. How can they make an argument against every possible theism?
My answer is, because as an atheist all gods are the same to me. An argument against one is an argument against all. It's like explaining why you don't believe in fantasy creatures. You don't need one arugment for Goblins and another for Trolls and a third for Orcs. The reasoning behind your disbelief will be the same for all.
My answer is, because as an atheist all gods are the same to me. An argument against one is an argument against all. It's like explaining why you don't believe in fantasy creatures. You don't need one arugment for Goblins and another for Trolls and a third for Orcs. The reasoning behind your disbelief will be the same for all.