Challenge to Creationists: Ichneumon Wasp

[Jos]

But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?


7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just. Romans 4;1-8

So God wants humans to sin so that He'll look even more righteous in comparison to our unrighteousness?

 

[Thief]

So God wants humans to sin so that He'll look even more righteous in comparison to our unrighteousness?

probably....but not for His ego

peace first

and to bestow eternal life and the powers of heaven
the recipient would need to know.....where the lines are drawn

 

[Thief]

Aside from the mountains of evidence for evolution, I often struggle to understand how anyone can believe in an intelligent and benevolent god who designed species when reading about phenomena like this. The Ichneumon wasp is a species of wasp that bores a hole into a caterpillar in order to lay its eggs inside of the caterpillar. The wasp also injects the caterpillar so that it is paralyzed, yet still feels pain. The wasps then hatch inside of the caterpillar and eat it alive from the inside out, while the caterpillar can do nothing. Now, unless God were an evil sadist, there is no way that he would design a process like this. This type of process is simply incompatible with the existence of an intelligent and benevolent designer. Yet, when viewed from a naturalistic perspective, it makes sense. Natural selection produces results that can turn out to be incredibly beautiful and give the illusion of benevolent design, and it can also produce horrible, nasty results like this that give the illusion of a cruel designer. In reality, Natural Selection is blind and mindless, and it all makes sense when we consider this. As Dawkins put it, "Nature is not cruel, only pitilessly indifferent."

Ichneumonidae - Wikipedia

so what if ? God.....is not the mindset most believe Him to be

what then? when you stand before Him

 

[Bear Wild]

so what if ? God.....is not the mindset most believe Him to be

what then? when you stand before Him

You must mean so what? Goddess …. is not the mindset most believe Her to be. What then? when you stand before Her.
Well she probably will not be very happy how we have treated our planet called Earth.

 

[Thief]

You must mean so what?

nope...I meant what I posted

 

[nPeace]

So God wants humans to sin so that He'll look even more righteous in comparison to our unrighteousness?

I don't know about the other gods, but certainly not the God of Abraham. Nowhere in the Bible does it say God wants anyone to sin.
In fact, the Bible says, “‘I do not take any pleasure in the death of anyone,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘So turn back and live.’” (Ezekiel 18:32)
If one really studies the Bible, they will come away with the view that God is holy, righteous, just, wise, and loving - abundant in loyal love, and truth.

It is only people who listen to foolishness, because they want to, rather than study scripture, that come away saying negative things about God.
If they really want to know him, they will.
If they don't, they won't, and God will see to that.
They will meet the same fate as the Pharaoh that thought he was so powerful as to compete with the sovereign of the universe.

Bible studies are freely given by Jehovah's people.
Thousands are taking advantage of that provision while it's available.

 

[Bear Wild]

nope...I meant what I posted

So god is a male thus adam must come first since adam is male?

 

[Jos]

probably....but not for His ego

But isn't He supposed to be holy and not tolerate sin?

 

[Thief]

But isn't He supposed to be holy and not tolerate sin?

I suspect a cause and effect

If God has a collections of lines drawn
and you have that ....look....of a trespasser

try thinking about Moses
and that 40days and nights
in the Presence of Something Greater

the Voice you can hear
the burning bush you can see

and that Voice would have you scribe a list of laws

Thou shall not have false gods before thee
and what did Moses do as he lived in the house of Pharoah?

Thou shall not kill
and why did Moses flee from Egypt?

as if you be the man.....see your hand scratching the words unto stone
as that Spirit is looking over your shoulder

 

[Thief]

So god is a male thus adam must come first since adam is male?

it is written.....Adam is a CHOSEN son of God

Man as a species......Day Six
THEN Chapter Two.....a separate event

 

[Jos]

I suspect a cause and effect

If God has a collections of lines drawn
and you have that ....look....of a trespasser

try thinking about Moses
and that 40days and nights
in the Presence of Something Greater

the Voice you can hear
the burning bush you can see

and that Voice would have you scribe a list of laws

Thou shall not have false gods before thee
and what did Moses do as he lived in the house of Pharoah?

Thou shall not kill
and why did Moses flee from Egypt?

as if you be the man.....see your hand scratching the words unto stone
as that Spirit is looking over your shoulder

I don't understand. Can you please explain?

 

[Thief]

I don't understand. Can you please explain?

most bibles have the title.....
Genesis
the first book of Moses

when sorting through details
it behooves the reader to consider the scribe

 

[Bear Wild]

it is written.....Adam is a CHOSEN son of God

Man as a species......Day Six
THEN Chapter Two.....a separate event

So is
1. god a female that gave birth to adam
2. there a female god that adams father god procreated with
3. god is both male and female at the same time thus can use both aspects to procreate and delivered adam.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Aside from the mountains of evidence for evolution, I often struggle to understand how anyone can believe in an intelligent and benevolent god who designed species when reading about phenomena like this. The Ichneumon wasp is a species of wasp that bores a hole into a caterpillar in order to lay its eggs inside of the caterpillar. The wasp also injects the caterpillar so that it is paralyzed, yet still feels pain. The wasps then hatch inside of the caterpillar and eat it alive from the inside out, while the caterpillar can do nothing. Now, unless God were an evil sadist, there is no way that he would design a process like this. This type of process is simply incompatible with the existence of an intelligent and benevolent designer. Yet, when viewed from a naturalistic perspective, it makes sense. Natural selection produces results that can turn out to be incredibly beautiful and give the illusion of benevolent design, and it can also produce horrible, nasty results like this that give the illusion of a cruel designer. In reality, Natural Selection is blind and mindless, and it all makes sense when we consider this. As Dawkins put it, "Nature is not cruel, only pitilessly indifferent."

Ichneumonidae - Wikipedia

First of all, God takes things like Locust and scorpions, to show the foolishness of those who think themselves as wise.

And here's an example of the Ichneumon Wasp. Showing the wisdom of man's as being foolishness.

Here's my question, In the bible in the book of Revelation God uses Locust and scorpions to represent people and nation's of the world in the end times.
So how would the Ichneumon Wasp fit into the end times in the book of Revelation?
Who do you suppose the Ichneumon Wasp would represent?

 

[Jos]

First of all, God takes things like Locust and scorpions, to show the foolishness of those who think themselves as wise.

And here's an example of the Ichneumon Wasp. Showing the wisdom of man's as being foolishness

How does it show that they're foolish?

 

[Faithofchristian]

How does it show that they're foolish?

When people criticize things which they have no knowledge about, that makes them look foolish.

In this case of the Ichneumon Wasp, people criticize God for creating the Ichneumon Wasp, but have no knowledge or idea who the Ichneumon Wasp can be taken in likeness of.
Who is it that works in the likeness of the Ichneumon Wasp works.

This is all because the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So with that being said, can you explain exactly who the Ichneumon Wasp can be taken in likeness of.
But remember it takes spiritual discernment to know who the Ichneumon Wasp can be taken in reference to.
How does this person work in like manner as the Ichneumon Wasp works.

Take notice also in the Bible in the book of Revelation God uses Locust and scorpions

So how does this person work in the like manner as the Ichneumon Wasp works.
Who is this?
You see when I think of how the Ichneumon Wasp works, I see how this person also works in like manner as the Ichneumon Wasp works.

 

[Jos]

When people criticize things which they have no knowledge about, that makes them look foolish.

In this case of the Ichneumon Wasp, people criticize God for creating the Ichneumon Wasp, but have no knowledge or idea who the Ichneumon Wasp can be taken in likeness of.
Who is it that works in the likeness of the Ichneumon Wasp works.

This is all because the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So with that being said, can you explain exactly who the Ichneumon Wasp can be taken in likeness of.
But remember it takes spiritual discernment to know who the Ichneumon Wasp can be taken in reference to.
How does this person work in like manner as the Ichneumon Wasp works.

You're saying the Ichneumon Wasp has a spiritual component to it but we're talking about the physical component here the actual physical wasp... why bring spirituality into a question about biology? We were talking about the effects of the physical wasp... why would talking about spirituality help answer the question?

 

[Faithofchristian]

You're saying the Ichneumon Wasp has a spiritual component to it but where talking about the physical component here the actual physical wasp... why bring spirituality into a question about biology? We were talking about the effects of the physical wasp... why would talking about spirituality help answer the question?

Nope not at all does it have a spiritual component to it.
But it does take spiritual discernment to figure out who works in like manner as the Ichneumon Wasp works.

When God is brought into the equation, then it becomes spiritual.

Let's go back to post #1, and notice that God is brought into the subject.

Post #1--( Aside from the mountains of evidence for evolution, I often struggle to understand how anyone can believe in an intelligent and benevolent god who designed species when reading about phenomena like this)

So here we find God being spoken of, so that means, The Ichneumon Wasp also can be taken in the spiritual sense also.

So the question is, Who is it that the Ichneumon wasp can be taken in reference to.

 

[Jos]

So the question is, Who is it that the Ichneumon wasp can be taken in reference to.

I'm guessing it's Satan but why would God create the Ichneumon Wasp if He's omnibenevolent?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Nope not at all does it have a spiritual component to it.
But it does take spiritual discernment to figure out who works in like manner as the Ichneumon Wasp works.

When God is brought into the equation, then it becomes spiritual.

Let's go back to post #1, and notice that God is brought into the subject.

Post #1--( Aside from the mountains of evidence for evolution, I often struggle to understand how anyone can believe in an intelligent and benevolent god who designed species when reading about phenomena like this)

So here we find God being spoken of, so that means, The Ichneumon Wasp also can be taken in the spiritual sense also.

So the question is, Who is it that the Ichneumon wasp can be taken in reference to.

The question wasn't about the context of the spiritual in the ichneumon wasp and I cannot make any sense out of what you posted in response. If someone else can, then maybe they can fill us in.

The question is straight forward and my answer is "I do not know". Knowing that creating something that literally eats another living thing to death does not make sense, in light of my conception of a benevolent and loving God, I simply do not know why it, or any creature like it--the entire natural world is not very kind and loving in many ways--would be created in that light.