Challenge to tariqkhwaja (the Qadiani)

[tariqkhwaja]

Okay Ilias. I will give you that you came up with an example where Khatam meant last. Therefore, Khatam can have both meanings even if used in that context.

The only thing I ask of you is whether you can give me a reference to the Hadith so I can read it. Thank you.

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

The only thing I ask of you is whether you can give me a reference to the Hadith so I can read it. Thank you.

This hadith can be found in Kanz-ul-Ummal, vol.6, p.178. I do not know if this is an authentic hadith or not, but we are not arguing about its authenticity, I am only giving you an example from Arabic language where khatam means last.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet. This was an invention of his son many years after HMGA's demise

This is a complete lie, anyone who has read Ik Ghalati Ka Izala by Mirza Qadiani clearly knows he laid explicit claim to nabuwwat (prophethood):

"Thus it happened a few days ago that a person faced from an opponent the objection that "the man whose pledge you have taken claims to be a prophet (nabi) and a messenger (rasul)". This was answered by only a denial, while such an answer is not correct. The fact is that the holy revelation of God Almighty which descends upon me contains words such as rasul, mursal and nabi, not once but hundreds of times."

"All the windows of prophethood have been closed, but one window, that of the path of Siddiq, is open, viz., fana fir-rasul"

"In short, my prophethood and messengership is in my capacity as Muhammad and Ahmad" (auzubillah!!!)

So it is very clear that Mirza Qadiani considered himself a prophet of Allah after Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam). Just because he claim to follow shariah of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) doesn't make him a true prophet. Even Musailma Kazzab said he believed in Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) and followed his shariah, but still the Sahaba went to war against him and killed him, because they could never tolerate someone defying Khatme Nabuwwat.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

This is a complete lie, anyone who has read Ik Ghalati Ka Izala by Mirza Qadiani clearly knows he laid explicit claim to nabuwwat (prophethood):

Thank you.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

I will repost what I already posted earlier. This worked last time and I hope it works this time.

The following is from http://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/Khatam_english.pdf. The passage discusses the 30 dajjal Hadith. PDF file details the whole issue of Khatam-e-Nabuwwat also with regards to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) when he stated "La' Nabi' Ba'adi". The issue is dealt with at the level of satisfaction for the honest minded.​

One such Hadith they put forth prominently and with their interpretation is as follows: “Thauban (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) said: ‘Thirty people will make false claim to prophethood in my Ummah even though I am ‘Khatamun Nabbiyeen’ and there is no prophet after me.“’ (Abu Daud: Kitab Alfitan).

This Hadith according to them categorically debars the coming of a prophet of any kind after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). For the sake of argument, if we accept their interpretation as correct and that the door to all kinds of prophethood is now closed, then I declare on behalf of Jamaat Ahmadiyya that we are bound by it. No mother has given birth to a son who can change this meaning. On the other hand, if the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) has opened a door for the continuation of prophethood in the Ummah, no one has the authority to close that door. This is the source of our disagreement.

Having reviewed the above Hadith, I would draw your attention to the Hadith related to Messiah of the latter days. This is contained in the book Al-Sahi Muslim Kitab-Alfitan in the chapter about the Dajjal. This is a long Ahadith and only relevant portions are mentioned here.

Narrating the accounts relating to the descent of Messiah son of Mary, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) says: ” . . ..The prophet of Allah, Jesus, peace and blessings of Allah be on him, will be besieged along with his companions, Allah be pleased with them.” Then he says: “Then, the prophet of Allah, Jesus, peace and blessings of Allah be on him, will turn to God with full attention along with his companions, Allah be pleased with them…” This Hadith is noted in Al-Sahi Muslim one of the books of the six most authentic compilations of Ahadith. It is to be noted that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) calls the Messiah who is to come as the prophet of God four times. In addition, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) calls the companions of the Messiah as ‘Sahaba’ followed by the appellation ‘Raziallaho Unhum’ - ‘Allah be pleased with them’.​

Our opponents may say Jesus (peace be on him) was on old prophet. That is why he has been mentioned as prophet of Allah. How would they explain the use of words ‘Sahaba’ for the companions of the Messiah? According to them, ‘Sahaba’ is a term used exclusively for the companions of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). It is very obvious that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was referring to an event that was to take place in the future.

Irrespective of the fact whether we have thirty or thirty million dajjals or impostors, the fact remains that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) has called the Messiah of the latter days as a prophet of God. No one can change that. ​

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

Our opponents may say Jesus (peace be on him) was on old prophet. That is why he has been mentioned as prophet of Allah. How would they explain the use of words ‘Sahaba’ for the companions of the Messiah? According to them, ‘Sahaba’ is a term used exclusively for the companions of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). It is very obvious that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was referring to an event that was to take place in the future.

First of all, the term sahaba is not exclusive for Prophet Muhammad's (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) companions, it can be used for any prophet's companions. Holy Qur'an gives example of Hazrat Nuh (alaihi salam): fa'anjaynahu wa 'ashaba assafeenati which means "So we saved him (Noah) and the Companions of the Ark" (29:15)

Irrespective of the fact whether we have thirty or thirty million dajjals or impostors, the fact remains that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) has called the Messiah of the latter days as a prophet of God. No one can change that.

The hadith has called 'Eesa ibn Maryam (alaihi salatu wa salam) as a prophet, and this is the same 'Eesa ibn Maryam (alaihi salatu wa salam) mentioned in the Holy Qur'an. The hadith of our Nabi (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) is "La Nabiyya Ba'dee" which means no prophet after me. Ba'da means after. It clearly means that no new prophet will be raised after Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam).

For example, Ronald Reagan was president of USA from 1981-1989. He came after President Jimmy Carter, who was president from 1977-1981. Ronald Reagan is dead, but Jimmy Carter is still alive (like Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) is dead and 'Eesa ibn Maryam is still alive). If after Ronald Reagan America didn't have any more presidents, Ronald Reagan would be considered last president, not Jimmy Carter, even though Jimmy Carter lives longer than Ronald Reagan. Its very simple concept even 4 year old girl can understand.

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

"Nothing remains of the glad tidings of prophethood, except good visions which a Muslim sees or someone is made to see for him." (Sahih Muslim)

"The Israelites used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be caliphs who will increase in number." (Sahih Bukhari)

"If there were to be a prophet after me it would be 'Umar ibn al-Khattab"

All these and countless other ahadeeth prove beyond shadow of a doubt that Hazrat Shah-e-Madinah, Muhammad Mustafa (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) is the last and final prophet, and no new prophet will come after him. If anyone is deserving to be a prophet after Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) it would be Hazrat Farooq-e-Azam 'Umar ibn al-Khattab (Radhi Allahu 'anhu) and not Mirza Qadiani. If Mirza Qadiani was a true prophet, than this means 'Umar (radhi Allahu 'anhu) was also a prophet. But no Qadiani believes 'Umar was a prophet, so what is going on?

 

[JohnKirmani]

You mean Jesus is still alive. Didn't he like die off 2000 years ago. Don't tell me you believe he went to the heavens or something? lol.

 

[JohnKirmani]

This is completely incorrect. Christians do not regard Jesus as the last prophet, Jesus never said anywhere that he is the last prophet. Jews do not believe in a last prophet either, and Hindus don't believe in prophets at all. It is only one religion, Islam, which teaches belief in prophets, and which teaches that Sayyidina Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa salam) is the Seal of the Prophets, and no new prophet will come after him.

Oh come on go ask any christian, jew or hindu. He will tell you that there will be no prophet after Jesus. Go ask any religious person. He will tell you that his/her religion is the best and last one. Its a common misconception. No religion is 'best' or 'last'. Religious people just say that because they have to. Otherwise their religion won't have any meaning.

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

Oh come on go ask any christian, jew or hindu. He will tell you that there will be no prophet after Jesus. Go ask any religious person. He will tell you that his/her religion is the best and last one. Its a common misconception. No religion is 'best' or 'last'. Religious people just say that because they have to. Otherwise their religion won't have any meaning.

I can't take someone seriously who says Jews and Hindus believe in Jesus. You seem to be woefully ignorant about religion in general.

You mean Jesus is still alive. Didn't he like die off 2000 years ago. Don't tell me you believe he went to the heavens or something? lol.

Yes Jesus is still alive, and he will return to this world in the future shortly before the Day of Judgment.

Behold! Allah said: O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself (3:55)

And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him (Jesus) before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them (4:159)

"By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, the son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend among you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the cross and slay the swine" (Sahih Bukhari)

 

[tariqkhwaja]

ba'da means after. It clearly means that no new prophet will be raised after muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam).

Exactly. When he said "La Nabi Ba'adi" we both translate it to "No Prophet after me".

That could easily "means" "No new Prophet will come after me" and it also "means" "No old Prophet will come after me". You can't choose one of the two meanings. You have to accept both. Unless you choose to interpret "La Nabi Ba'adi" differently (i.e. give it a different meaning from normal) ... to which I will agree. The word Ba'ad can have a different meaning as I will show you in the next post.

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

Exactly. When he said "La Nabi Ba'adi" we both translate it to "No Prophet after me".

Yes.

That could easily "means" "No new Prophet will come after me" and it also "means" "No old Prophet will come after me". You can't choose one of the two meanings. You have to accept both.

I hate to have to play word games with you, but unfortunately this is all you Qadianis seem to be capable of. If someone is saying no prophet after me than this can only refer to a new prophet. This is common sense and logic. Old always precedes new. Old is before, new is after. La Nabiyya Bad'ee means "no prophet after", it does not mean "no prophet before". 'Eesa (alaihi salam) is not coming after Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam). 'Eesa (alaihi salam) came before.

So 'Eesa (alaihi salam) already came. Yes, we believe he is still here, but that doesn't mean he came after Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam), it only means Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) died before Jesus (alaihi salam) will die. Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) didn't say "no prophet will die after me", he said "no prophet will come after me". I hope you can understand my point.

 

[JohnKirmani]

I can't take someone seriously who says Jews and Hindus believe in Jesus. You seem to be woefully ignorant about religion in general.

Yes Jesus is still alive, and he will return to this world in the future shortly before the Day of Judgment.

Behold! Allah said: O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself (3:55)

And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him (Jesus) before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them (4:159)

"By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, the son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend among you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the cross and slay the swine" (Sahih Bukhari)

The Christians will tell you that Jesus was the last saviour for the humans. The Jews and Hindus etc. will also tell you that their religion is last and their Prophet was last. They all say the same thing.

So Allah raised Jesus to himself, did he now? Jesus was on this earth. Then one day Allah decided to bring him to himself. So he moved Jesus in space and time and took him to where Allah was. But where is Allah? Is he in any fixed location is space? Or is he like floating somewhere? Because according to the verse if we find Allah we will find Jesus.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So Allah raised Jesus to himself, did he now? Jesus was on this earth. Then one day Allah decided to bring him to himself. So he moved Jesus in space and time and took him to where Allah was. But where is Allah? Is he in any fixed location is space? Or is he like floating somewhere? Because according to the verse if we find Allah we will find Jesus.

And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. Luke 23:46

It is my understanding that that when Jesus refers to 'father', it means God which is Allah.

Concerning your question of where in space God is, the time/space concept is a limited perception of reality experienced by mortals.

 

[JohnKirmani]

Oh right you probably consider Jesus to be immortal. Kind of like a God. That would probably make you a christian.
But the Muslims consider Jesus to be a human mortal. And humans need to present in space/time what ever cause they have physical bodies. If God raised Jesus to himself then God was present in some location where Jesus was raised to from the earth. That begets the question, where is God? And more importantly where is Jesus? Can we communicate with him using radion waves?

 

[Nehustan]

That begets the question, where is God?

Bimillah Ar rahman Ar Raheem

The Most Gracious is firmly established on the throne. Ta-Ha, 20:5

...here the word on can be compared to 'over', the exact matter of how being not only unknown, but considered unknowable. However, Muhammad used the symbolism of the circumference of a desert compared to a ring on his finger, when relating the boundary of all creation, i.e. The Throne/Al Arsh, with the boundary of our universe. The scholars point out that it is not a throne is a normal sense, as a mundane throne supports, while in this situation, contrariwise, Allah supports the throne and all creation. It is important to note that God is considered beyond dimension, not so much in a place, as beyond what we might consider place.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

So 'Eesa (alaihi salam) already came. Yes, we believe he is still here, but that doesn't mean he came after Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam), it only means Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) died before Jesus (alaihi salam) will die. Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) didn't say "no prophet will die after me", he said "no prophet will come after me". I hope you can understand my point.

Hazrat Eesa is on the 4th heaven along with other Prophets on different heavens. If that is "here" then they are all "here" (or at least that is what you believe).

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not say no Prophet will die after me, he did not say not say no Prophet will return after me, he did not say no one will be made Prophet after me, but he just said no Prophet will come after me. You take that to MEAN that old Prophets can still return but that is not what he said ... it is what you take to be (according to you) obvious meaning.

We take the statement to MEAN something else. That is the only difference.

Despite La' Nabee' Ba'di we both agree that a Prophet will come. Regardless of "old" or "new" despite Prophet Muhammad saying "No Prophet will come after me" you and I claim a Prophet will come after him (only you say an old Prophet will come after him).

So clearly, Ba'adi has to mean something other than the norm.

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

The Christians will tell you that Jesus was the last saviour for the humans. The Jews and Hindus etc. will also tell you that their religion is last and their Prophet was last. They all say the same thing.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time on someone who has no clue, but anyways. Yes Christians believe Jesus is their only savior. We are not discussing concept of savior, we are discussing concept of prophet. Christians believe Jesus is a prophet as well, but nowhere in the New Testament does it say Jesus is the last prophet. In fact, many of the "apostles" like Paul, John, etc., fit the role of Christian prophets according to the New Testament. Judaism believes that Malachi was the last prophet thus far, but again, there is nothing in the Hebrew bible which says he is the last prophet for all time. In fact, Judaism, according to the talmud, believes in thousands of prophets, and also female prophetesses, some which came even after Malachi. There is no such thing in Judaism as as "x is the last and final prophet, no prophet after him". By now you should know that Hinduism doesn't have a concept of prophethood or prophets. Hinduism is not even a cohesive religion, they don't claim that their "religion" is the final religion, and neither does it say any such thing in any of their sacred texts.

It is only Islam which says that our prophet, Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi salam) is the last and final prophet, the seal of the prophets, and no prophet will come after him. (Holy Qur'an, chapter 33, verse 40).

So Allah raised Jesus to himself, did he now? Jesus was on this earth. Then one day Allah decided to bring him to himself. So he moved Jesus in space and time and took him to where Allah was. But where is Allah? Is he in any fixed location is space? Or is he like floating somewhere? Because according to the verse if we find Allah we will find Jesus.

Jesus was raised to Allah, meaning toward Allah. The Holy Qur'an says that Allah, glorified and exalted is He, is above the Throne, which is above the heavens, which are above the Earth. So Jesus was raised above. This is what the word rafa means, to ascend above, as opposed to nuzul which means to descend below. We believe that Jesus is in the second heaven.

Hazrat Eesa is on the 4th heaven along with other Prophets on different heavens. If that is "here" then they are all "here" (or at least that is what you believe).

Yes, Hazrat 'Eesa (alaihi salam) is on the second heaven, along with Yahya (alaihi salam). Adam (alaihi salam) is on the first heaven. Yusuf (alaihi salam) is on the third heaven, Idris (alaihi salam) is on the fourth heaven, Harun (alaihi salam) is on the fifth heaven, and Musa (alaihi salam) is on the sixth heaven, and Ibrahim (alaihi salam) is on the seventh heaven. So all of these prophets are in the heavens, but the difference is that all of them have tasted the death except for 'Eesa (alaihi salam). This is one of the reasons why 'Eesa (alaihi salam) will miraculously return to this world, because Holy Qur'an says:

Kullu nafsin dhaa'iqatu'l mawti which means "Every souls shall taste death" (3:185) and 'Eesa (alaihi salam) is no exception to this rule. Only thing is that 'Eesa (alaihi salam) death has been delayed until he returns back to this world and completes his mission to slay the Maseeh ad-Dajjal (anti christ).

Despite La' Nabee' Ba'di we both agree that a Prophet will come. Regardless of "old" or "new" despite Prophet Muhammad saying "No Prophet will come after me" you and I claim a Prophet will come after him (only you say an old Prophet will come after him).
So clearly, Ba'adi has to mean something other than the norm.

I see that we are going in circles over discussion of La Nabiyya Ba'dee. Once again, I tell you that this means, and it can only mean, that no new prophet will be raised after Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam). So let us look at a different hadith:

إِنَّ الرِّسَالَةَ وَالنُّبُوَّةَ قَدِ انْقَطَعَتْ فَلَا رَسُولَ بَعْدِي وَلَا نَبِي
​

Inna arrasalata wa an-nabuwwata qadin-qata'at fala rasoola ba'dee wa la nabee

"Verily messengerhood and prophethood have been terminated, so there will be no prophet after me and no prophet" (Sunan Tirmizi, Musnad Ahmad)

Now when Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) said messengerhood and prophethood have been terminated, what does this mean? Does it mean prophethood and messengerhood of old prophets has been terminated? Of course not! Both Muslims and Qadianis agree that all old prophets still retain their status of prophethood which has not been terminated. So this can only mean one thing, no new prophets can come, because only new prophethood has been terminated!!!

Here is another hadith which illustrate this point:

وَخُتِمَ بِي النَّبِيُّون
​

wa khutima bee annabiyyoon which means "and the prophets have ended with me" (Sunan Tirmizi, Sunan ibne Majah). Notice the word Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) uses, "khutima" which is derived from same root word for khatam, as in khatama annabiyeen!!!

 

[Ilias Ahmad]

إِنَّ لِي أَسْمَاءَ أَنَا مُحَمَّدٌ، وَأَنَا أَحْمَدُ، وَأَنَا الْمَاحِي الَّذِي يَمْحُو اللهُ تَعَالَى بِيَ الْكُفْرَ،
وَأَنَا الْحَاشِرُ الَّذِي يُحْشَرُ النَّاسُ عَلَى قَدَمَيَّ وَأَنَا الْعَاقِبُ الَّذِي لَيْسَ بَعْدَهُ نَبِ
"Verily, my name is Muhammad and Ahmad, and I am the Mahi (eradicator) through whom Allah Most High will eradicate disbelief, and I am the Hashir (gatherer) at whose feet mankind will gather, and I am the 'Aqib (the final one) after whom there will be no prophet." (Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim)​

 

[JohnKirmani]

Jesus was raised to Allah, meaning toward Allah. The Holy Qur'an says that Allah, glorified and exalted is He, is above the Throne, which is above the heavens, which are above the Earth. So Jesus was raised above. This is what the word rafa means, to ascend above, as opposed to nuzul which means to descend below. We believe that Jesus is in the second heaven.



Yes, Hazrat 'Eesa (alaihi salam) is on the second heaven, along with Yahya (alaihi salam). Adam (alaihi salam) is on the first heaven. Yusuf (alaihi salam) is on the third heaven, Idris (alaihi salam) is on the fourth heaven, Harun (alaihi salam) is on the fifth heaven, and Musa (alaihi salam) is on the sixth heaven, and Ibrahim (alaihi salam) is on the seventh heaven. So all of these prophets are in the heavens, but the difference is that all of them have tasted the death except for 'Eesa (alaihi salam). This is one of the reasons why 'Eesa (alaihi salam) will miraculously return to this world, because Holy Qur'an says:

Kullu nafsin dhaa'iqatu'l mawti which means "Every souls shall taste death" (3:185) and 'Eesa (alaihi salam) is no exception to this rule. Only thing is that 'Eesa (alaihi salam) death has been delayed until he returns back to this world and completes his mission to slay the Maseeh ad-Dajjal (anti christ).



I see that we are going in circles over discussion of La Nabiyya Ba'dee. Once again, I tell you that this means, and it can only mean, that no new prophet will be raised after Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam). So let us look at a different hadith:

إِنَّ الرِّسَالَةَ وَالنُّبُوَّةَ قَدِ انْقَطَعَتْ فَلَا رَسُولَ بَعْدِي وَلَا نَبِي
​

Inna arrasalata wa an-nabuwwata qadin-qata'at fala rasoola ba'dee wa la nabee

"Verily messengerhood and prophethood have been terminated, so there will be no prophet after me and no prophet" (Sunan Tirmizi, Musnad Ahmad)

Come on man, you don't seriously believe that a 'man' like Jesus was taken by God into some mythical second 'heaven'. I mean seriously, you can't be that dumb. You're telling me that Jesus is alive for 2000+ years. He doesn't age, doesn't eat or go to the bathroom. He's unlike any other human ever. Even Mohammad the 'last' and 'greatest' of all prophets wasn't able to live beyond his 63 years but the Holy Jesus continues to live on the right hand side of God with his earthly body with no need of any human necessities. He's obviously not human but a demigod of the highest order. And now you Muslims tell me that he will come at the 'end of times' to save the Muslims from the 'anti-christ'. That's simply hilarious. Let me tell you something, the world has entered a new era. People don't believe in mythical creatures any more. if you are to bring Islam in the 21st century you have to get rid of these mythical stories about dragons and princes. Its fine for putting kids to sleep at night telling them a jesus is in the heavens watching them. Lol. And he will come to save Mohammad's religion from the anti christ becasue guess what Mohammad was NOT the last prophet. I mean he was, but not really. Apparently he didn't finish the job and died off after 60 years because he was not super human like Mr. Jesus. His body got decomposed but Jesus's body was made of God like material so it got transported into heavens where the great Allah is present. Which by the way means that He's not present anywhere else. So there goes the common misconception that Allah is present everywhere. Actually the pagans were right. He IS in the heavens. So the old Jesus who was weak and powerless to even stop himself from getting crucified will be transformed to a demigod with super human powers and will save the nation of Islam from the anti-christ(who ever that is). So the world will remember Jesus (not Mohammad) as the LAST prophet. As the SAVIOUR of the human race against the mythical creature with one eye and a huge donkey. Lol. Jesus will actually be remembered as the last prophet because Mohammad was too weak and 'human' to do his job. Man, thats quite a story. But in all seriousness it may be good enough for the uneducated Muslims of today to give them hope for salvation but for any other person it's a little too much to handle.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

The reason I was debating La Nabi Ba'adi was because that statement is repeatedly made by Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and finding whether an alternate meaning exists to the word Ba'adi is important if Ahmadis are to defend their claim. As for the other hadith they are just singular Hadiths and they can be disregarded in light of the evidence I am going to present from the Quran.

But first, according to the Quran an alternate meaning of Ba'adi is as follows (this is from http://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/Khatam_english.pdf):

Hazrat Shah Waliullah Mohaddes Dehlavi, universally acknowledged as the Mujaddid (reformer) of the 12th century and very well known to Muslims of the sub-continent and who is held in high esteem by these people, writes in Quratul Aineen Fi Tafseel Alshaikhain pg. 602:

It must be clearly understood that the object of this Hadith is to highlight the appointment of Hazrat Ali (Allah be pleased with him) to act in the place of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) when he was to be absent from Medina during his expedition to Tabuk. Also, to highlight Hazrat Ali’s resemblance to Hazrat Haroon (peace be on him) when Hazrat Musa (peace be on

him) had journeyed to the Mount. It is to be noted that the word ‘Ba’adee’ (after me) here means ‘Ghairi’ (beside me). It does not mean after me in time.

As we read in the Holy Quran “Fa Maeen Yahdehe Mim Ba’adillah” “Who, then, will guide him other than Allah?“ (Ch. 45, v . 24). Here the word ‘Ba’adee’ has not been used in the sense of ‘after me’ as Hazrat Haroon (peace be on him) did not outlive Hazrat Musa (peace be on him) while Hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) lived after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) to make this exception of ‘Ba’adee’ meaning ‘after me’ was therefore not appropriate.​

​

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