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Challenge to Theists: Prove Your God

Heyo

Veteran Member
Why is it strange that the one who practice see no reason to prove to others? It is a personal path, if you do not believe in God that is your choice, I believe and that is my choice.
Well said.
Discussion with a few atheists like your self, whete you ask for proof, where when pr3sented with personal proof from the believer, you say, no that is not proof.

It is not proof to you because you can not see the proof as long you your self do not practice.
Not so good. You are attempting to redefine "proof". You have personal experiences that convinced you - but you don't have proof.
From your other posts and the first chapter I know that proof isn't important to you and I know that you don't want to convince others with "proof". I think it would be easy for you to accept that there is no proof (in the dictionary meaning of the word).
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Well said.

Not so good. You are attempting to redefine "proof". You have personal experiences that convinced you - but you don't have proof.
From your other posts and the first chapter I know that proof isn't important to you and I know that you don't want to convince others with "proof". I think it would be easy for you to accept that there is no proof (in the dictionary meaning of the word).
I do not need physical proof to believe in a God or in the teaching:) the teaching is proof enough for me since it has change my life fully
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
What if you get irradiated by brother human atmospheric science experiments. See Brien typed burning black wisping smoke outside as your brain burns prickling feeling like screaming?

Seeing images of men's heads and ancient humans by clothes emerge with stone like statues of humans....aliens...strange looking spirit forms Michael Jackson and Elvis images?

Knowing that the heavens records image voice and transmits constantly via machines humans built?

Then as I thought I would die my holy father speaks to me says my name and then everything changed?

I didn't believe in God or a holy father. I said spiritually the loving light kept us safe as a conscious inference natural light versus fallout burning gas light.

So suddenly thought so this brain prickling effect real. Yet only once unnaturally bled from my womb after seeing a silver ball.

None of the above was wanted by the way.

I was not religious and only meditated in groups or by myself. Yet was interested in healing phenomena. Studied it via meditative practice.

Not being a scientist not indoctrinated.
Not being religious not indoctrinated.

Just a self exploring and thinking naturally.

I would say I qualify for non egotistical indoctrination.

As I don't use machines to quantify what I learnt by psyche applied reasoning. My own head owned by my own human body.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Where to start?…..

How about the ubiquitous nature of marriage?
Until recently, it was found in every diverse and completely unrelated cultural construct Earth wide!
In every level of society!

That’s good evidence of the institution being of divine (and sharing a common) origin!
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Sure, do however you like. That still doesn't refute the point, which was that people from different religions have the same unshakable certainty of their deities because of some experience, even though they can't all be correct. :)

Logically if a group is not all correct, some within the group may be correct.

Atheists say THEY are correct, just like Christians like me and other religionists.

If atheists claim to be a subgroup of belief who are correct--and this without proving their negative, then it's okay for Christians to say they have tangible proof, including prescience and archeology as in the Bible/aligning with the Bible.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
They're your unsupported claims. Read them out loud if you want to know what they are. You called them Argument 1 and Argument 2. There is no argument there.



Perhaps you mean something different by unsupported that I do. I'm not saying that the your claims can't be supported, just that you didn't do that.



No, I don't. I used to be a Christian. I would say now that what I interpreted as the Holy Spirit then I see as something else now, a psychological experience once misunderstood.



You are free to speculate about what goes on in my mind.

But once again, I don' see an argument from you, just the claim that nobody can be more accurate about your inner experiences than you. That's simply incorrect. Of course you can be wrong and others know that.

It's not difficult to recognize when somebody is misrepresenting their inner life. What harder is deciding if they know that they are doing this. I'm thinking of the guy who gave me statistics on masks in COVID as his reason for not wearing one. Of course that's not accurate. This kind of person doesn't make decisions based in science. We know this because he's attempting to use a crumb of it to justify ignoring all the rest. He wants what he wants, and there's really not much more to it than that, but he won't say that. He may not even know that it's not the mask data influencing him. He just knows that if he doesn't feign some interest in scientific evidence, that he will be disesteemed for his decision.

Now we're seeing it with the vaccine, where people who have zero interest in science, zero understanding of how vaccines are approved or what it means when they are, tell us or imply to us that they're waiting for full FDA approval. Whether they know it or not, I know that that is not the case. Once again, these people don't care what the FDA, the CDC, or Dr. Fauci have to say about anything. If they did, they'd be vaccinated. Once again, they merely want what they want, but feel that they need to put a bit of science in there to make it seem like they have good reason for their opinions.

Likewise with the anti-choice contingent. They can't tell you that they want abortion recriminalized because they believe that their god wants them to object, so you hear every other reason instead: it's a human being (not a factor for me), it causes long-term mental health issues in the almost-mother (who they don't care about at all).

You may not like having your motives second-guessed, and you might believe that because your thoughts are in your head that they are hidden from others and should just be believed, but that's just not the case.

My wife belongs to a garden club and sits on the board. The club has not been meeting for over a year now, but the president, a Trump Republican, has been arguing against requiring proof of vaccine to attend. She tells others she doesn't approve. They were going to meet without her, so suddenly, she reports that she got a vaccine, albeit reluctantly. When asked to provide proof, she demurred, claiming that her health care was her business and nobody else's. What do you think? Should be be believed? Do people have a right to second guess what's going on in her head even though they only have direct access to her words and deeds? I'd say they have a responsibility to do that, and that it's not too difficult to do.

I'm a vaccinated believer in science.

I can use the scientific method to discredit your theorizing about my experiences with God.
 

Magical Wand

Active Member
Logically if a group is not all correct, some within the group may be correct.

Atheists say THEY are correct, just like Christians like me and other religionists.

If atheists claim to be a subgroup of belief who are correct--and this without proving their negative, then it's okay for Christians to say they have tangible proof, including prescience and archeology as in the Bible/aligning with the Bible.

I'm not an atheist, so I don't care about that. I'm only interested in your claim about religious experience.

Sure. Some within the group may be correct (or maybe nobody is correct). However, to decide who is correct one can't use religious experience since this kind of method leads to several different religions.
 

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
PLEASE SEE MY RECENT THREADS FOR A REASONABLE ATTEMPT AT PROOFS. AND THE ONES IN PHILOSOPHY.

POINT OF FACT: A PERSON MAY PROVE GOD, BUT UNLESS YOU ARE ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING THE SPIRITUAL YOU PROBABLY WILL NOT ACCEPT IT.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
To prove that earth was a satanic God is to be attacked.

O earths conditions natural prove sealed and not converting radiation released was life's natural highest human health support.

Life attacked was by men in science choice to build machines apply earth satanic mass conversions.

As machine string as by design go back to melting a mineral.

Human life's health uses minerals.

Pretty basic no huge argument coercing beliefs in the argument. What argument was used for coercer.

To think.

A theist. Thinker. I can think without want it self human advice to change the nature of the earth or its gases

At.heist criminal science thinker however did by his human actions. Converting to get energy from God sealed resource.

The God of Satan was the seal. Highest condition.

Science hence is satanism.

L ist. Satan ist.

Humans who list advice. Words holy. About natural. Use machines to change the holy word into an evil act ion.

Act ion.
React ion.
Religare ion.
Relig ion. First human sciences.

Basic human warnings causes and effects upon natural life chosen by humans.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I'm not an atheist, so I don't care about that. I'm only interested in your claim about religious experience.

Sure. Some within the group may be correct (or maybe nobody is correct). However, to decide who is correct one can't use religious experience since this kind of method leads to several different religions.

Actually, religious experience aligns with the Bible and confirms the Bible, but for now, I would say focus on the Bible's prophecy and prescience.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
This is my second attempt at getting that answer. I tried in From a Deos to Your God but no serious contenders.

So, to all those who like to post and debate about god proves, here is a new challenge:

Assume that any one of the god proofs is correct, the Kalam, the ontological, the moral, whatever argument you find convincing.

Name your argument and try to expand that argument so that you get to a theistic god (any one of those).

I know of no apologist who has even attempted that and I know that no-one did in my first try to get that argument.

If you think that it is impossible, try to prove that.


Let's do something new instead of rehashing centuries old arguments.

I believe I am proof of God.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I thought it was by now well established that no proof of such a thing, either for or against a God, is possible.

If there were proofs there would be no faith.

The only thing I have seen so far is that there are those who refuse to believe the proof.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
The only thing I have seen so far is that there are those who refuse to believe the proof.
If there were a proof, it would be widely accepted, just as any proof is in mathematics or logic.

If a "proof" requires belief, that means it is not a proof in the first place. Proofs are logically unarguable and do not require belief.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Proof no man is God.

You are a human.

Science themes God. O Satan earth in hell. God seal. Gods Satan in hell.

Volcanic gases evolve in space by voiding vacuum pressure. Not a human.

Sun body in hell. Not a human. Sent radiating bodies not a human to earth to convert set alight gases. Not a human.

Not the God of Satan.

God eternal that had originally released God. We were the eternal being in the eternal God.

Was life changed when we entered the heavens at ground state zero.

The eternal God human beginnings.

Science from the dusts was built by dust mineral melt then water cooling the God of man's science.

Attacked our life. We remained human the whole time.

Proof.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
God of science man theist.

Conversion he reviewed involved the ended flooded earth. Immaculate was balanced light sacrifice in void. UFO flat topped mountain peak removed. By UFO from sun first. No pyramid existed was thesis how to build science.

∆looking back theism how to remove human body to disappear as mass had of nuclear mountain conversion of dust to dust.

Why man said he was the mountain irrationally.

Compared by self human. Human thinker comparing in self presence self to reaction not a human self.

An act of evil.

UFO first scene then began removing water.

Flood gone. Real mountains existing.

No science.

Theist to build ∆ pyramid. A thesis fake the vision stated mountain tip had already been removed. Stone existed.

His fake thesis dust had therefore in rebuilding became solid stone. The blocks he used to build technology from thesis dust of mass disintegration. Magic he said all in his mind.

Human science theist a proven liar.

The first looking back scenario of a human scientist.

Theoried as if earth as God stone solid had not existed when he was standing on it as a pyramid origin thesis.

Proof today men in science were possessed by the same thesis of his origin lying pretending earth as a solid stone mass was not existing first.

That only dust in a huge space hole did.

Equals answer outcome sin holes on earth as no God mass existing as end answer to the formula.

Formula using zero as a non number.

The human teaching by humans science was always lying.

Holy Satan O sealed earth as God was Satan's only highest form.

Machines came from and were built via the dusts of the earth. Alchemy process is first.

Why science humans tried to claim dust to machine as a humans bio mechanical life as he is possessed by the body machine in man's image. From dusts.

Instead of natural man reflecting on man's human owned image he reflected upon the history the machine. Dusts.

His reasons I built the machine in place of my own human man's life was a real human life warning of men's minds possessed by science.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Radiation from God earth core heart got released accumulated unnaturally in space equalling his machine metal body plus reaction.

Cooling in void just like and equals to his thesis natural light. Yet it's not natural light it is just radiation.

Science mind congratulated his inventive reasons I invented radiation particle by his science memories.

Another of his lies by thinking to equate it equally. Natural gas light to radiation he caused to accumulate in void also. So it took over natural thoughts human theist.

How a false machine from dust radiating particles came back as cause effect to remove his human life as if it were abducting water mass as it had in origin. A fake caused occult machine.

Caused by human scientists.

Thesis human got radiation mass. He wants machine to get it why he studied life attacked by UFO.

As if his reaction is in atmosphere instead of being received by his machine.

Machine inside same atmospheric gas water mass as a human would be attacked the same.

The answer.

Want coldest UFO state first equals machine metal.

Want of reactive reaction heated UFO metal human combustion machine blow up.

History machines did blow up.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The only way you will gain the answer you looking for is to seek within you, God appear on a personal level. Not a physical level
I have found that to be true to an extent, meaning I had to look for and pray to find God. He found me after I prayed to find Him, If He was there. He answered my prayer, I didn't even realize it at the time. But He did. It took a while to learn, I'm happy I did. Because I know He answered my request to find Him.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
In finding that our father was first a holy human spirit self as our teaching because humans knew Satanists were harming life in science. Then my answer holy mother daughter is real.

And prayed for.

Another proof the eternal to holy father is real and he hears us.

And it is not science it is a humans experience only. We are direct spirit eternal a human.

God of Satan and fallen into hell planet of science.
 
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