change perspective

[blü 2]

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You said.. Churches, like humans generally, aren't good at inclusion, you'll have noticed.
I reply: The Body of Christ is pure and holy... The Church Jesus established is full to the rafters with sinners! Catholics need saving! Those who reject Jesus MUST also reject his body!

But they're all required to toe your line. They can't be Buddhists or Daoists or Muslims or believers in the Great Spirit. They can't be unbelievers. You say their "redemption" is conditional on doing it all your way. You alone possess the "truth".

Whereas I don't really mind what they believe if they're decent humans ─ if (as my own mantra goes) they do no harm and treat others with decency, respect and inclusion. If that part's in place, the rest doesn't matter.

And again: I have no reason to think life continues after death. But if there's an afterlife, and if it's a just place, I'll be in as fair a position as anyone else; and if it's not a just place then everyone's in strife.

You said.. Nope. The Apocalypse is an earthly phenomenon, a human political revolution instituted by the Enoch-like Son of Man, in some parts of the NT identified with Jesus, in other parts spoken of as a different identity, the latter being the original view according to scholars I respect. And after that, earthly humans will live in an orderly world and worship of the Jewish god will be universal and those ******* Romans won't be in charge of Judea and Galilee anymore.
I reply... Satan is stuck here on earth. Satan cannot leave FOREVER!

I thought Christians (by and large) believed in one triune God. Or three, perhaps, Father, Jesus and Ghost. But you believe in a further god, Satan.

Whereas if Satanists do no harm and treat others as I said, I have no argument with Satanists. And if they do harm and disrespect and exclude others, in my view THAT they do that is what's wrong.

Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Luke 10:18? You can barefoot it over snakes and scorpions? Gee, I hope your luck continues to hold out.

 

[Dogknox20]

But they're all required to toe your line. They can't be Buddhists or Daoists or Muslims or believers in the Great Spirit. They can't be unbelievers. You say their "redemption" is conditional on doing it all your way. You alone possess the "truth".

Whereas I don't really mind what they believe if they're decent humans ─ if (as my own mantra goes) they do no harm and treat others with decency, respect and inclusion. If that part's in place, the rest doesn't matter.

And again: I have no reason to think life continues after death. But if there's an afterlife, and if it's a just place, I'll be in as fair a position as anyone else; and if it's not a just place then everyone's in strife.
I thought Christians (by and large) believed in one triune God. Or three, perhaps, Father, Jesus and Ghost. But you believe in a further god, Satan.

Whereas if Satanists do no harm and treat others as I said, I have no argument with Satanists. And if they do harm and disrespect and exclude others, in my view THAT they do that is what's wrong.
Luke 10:18? You can barefoot it over snakes and scorpions? Gee, I hope your luck continues to hold out.

You said.. Whereas I don't really mind what they believe if they're decent humans.. etc
I reply.. You are preaching to the choir Catholic's also believe the same... We believe Muslims, Hindu Buddhists etc can get into heaven! If a person has "Love" then they have Hod....
blü 2 "God IS Love"!

It's just that: The Catholic Church IS the fulness of truth all others have partial truths!

 

[blü 2]

You said.. Whereas I don't really mind what they believe if they're decent humans.. etc
I reply.. You are preaching to the choir Catholic's also believe the same... We believe Muslims, Hindu Buddhists etc can get into heaven! If a person has "Love" then they have Hod....
blü 2 "God IS Love"!

It's just that: The Catholic Church IS the fulness of truth all others have partial truths!

No, the Catholic Church is the center of the decades-long storm about the protection of child molesters in its ranks, its secret administration, its startling hypocrisy about homosexuality, its opposition to the freedom of women (in particular) and everyone in general to choose as they think best ─ about divorce, abortion, obedience, independence ─ and so on.

The Catholic God is not a God of Love, but a highly conditional system that purports to reward obedience and to reject dissent. Still, if that's what you want, it's certainly your choice.

 

[wellwisher]

instead of looking at jesus' death as a complete and total asking price for sin how bout we look at Jesus as the keeper of eternal life?

Sin is connected to law. As Paul said, sin is not imputed where there is no law. If Jesus was a sacrifice for sin, and sin if no more, then law is also no more. For example, in the USA, marijuana is legal in some states and not in others. Where there is no law; legal, there is no sin; social stigma. But in the next state, where there is a law, there is a social sin attached to the same behavior. Sin is only imputed where there is a law. Law and sin go hand in hand.

A sacrifice for sin and therefore for a sacrifice for law is easy to understand; end of law and sin, but it is not easily applied in real life, since there are laws all around you, made by others, that define various types of subjective and social sins. These often have teeth to bite, if you violate. In some circles, if you are not Woke enough or use the right pronouns, this is a sin. The wage of sin can be death of your career. How can you avoid this, even if sin and law is forgiven by Jesus, when there are bullies who wish to lord over you with law and sin? This is true of all sides of the social spectrum.

In your heart you can accept no law and no sin; love each other and do not judge, but others will try to pull you in and judge you by their subjective standards, with punishments, so you will have conform and thereby deny the sacrifice of Jesus. This is not the type of eternal life anyone would want.

What Jesus had in mind, for eternal life, was a place where there is no law and therefore no sin or fear. There, one is allowed to follow their inner spirit and explore the options of life without being judged or judging others. One could lovingly follow their inner voice; spirit, like Adam and Eve before the fall, and allow the blessings of eternal life to unfold, without any inhibitions and fears; unless you become as children.

I can see the image of a small child playing in the Garden of Eden, too young and too naive to be under any law, thereby able to freely explore the garden, sanctified by the word of God and prayer. This is a better eternal life.

 

[Dogknox20]

No, the Catholic Church is the center of the decades-long storm about the protection of child molesters in its ranks, its secret administration, its startling hypocrisy about homosexuality, its opposition to the freedom of women (in particular) and everyone in general to choose as they think best ─ about divorce, abortion, obedience, independence ─ and so on.

The Catholic God is not a God of Love, but a highly conditional system that purports to reward obedience and to reject dissent. Still, if that's what you want, it's certainly your choice.

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blü 2 I hope all is well.....
The Catholic Church is chock full of sinners, full to the rafters!
I am a Catholic because I need saving!

blü 2 The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established 2000 years ago is without blemish!
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just **as Christ loved the church and **gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, **without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
**Jesus loves his Holy Church!
**Jesus died for his holy Church!
**Thew Body of Jesus the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is without stain or blemish!

blü 2To reject the ONLY Church built on rock you MUST reject the scriptures!

 

[blü 2]

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blü 2 I hope all is well.....
The Catholic Church is chock full of sinners, full to the rafters!
I am a Catholic because I need saving!

blü 2 The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established 2000 years ago is without blemish!
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just **as Christ loved the church and **gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, **without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
**Jesus loves his Holy Church!
**Jesus died for his holy Church!
**Thew Body of Jesus the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is without stain or blemish!

blü 2To reject the ONLY Church built on rock you MUST reject the scriptures!

You live in a free country (or I trust you do) and can make your own religious choices.

But I have no idea where you got the line, "The Body of Jesus the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is without stain or blemish!" The RCC has a history of bigotry, rigidity, venality, war-making, rationalizing and excuse-making, politicking, interference in state affairs, keeping power in male hands, antisemitism, murderous rapine, and preferring to protect its power rather than its principles, most recently concealment of its own child-molesting offenders ─ an appalling set of circumstances on an appalling scale which has cost the churches a great deal of their old apparent moral authority.

I have no doubt that the RCC, like other religions, has its share of good people. I have no doubt that the RCC does good things, and full credit to them. But I'd say that the RCC no more possesses accurate knowledge of supernatural matters than other humans do, since such "knowledge" has no objective test for truth, whoever claims to hold it. However many religions, that many versions of "religious truth", no?