Changing Races , Changing Religions?

[1robin]

I totally agree Robin. This is about her lying about certain issues to acheive her goals in her career. I presonally could not care less what race she is or wants to be or thinks she is. What does matter, particularly in positions where you are faced with media and social pressures, is intergrity. I have never used my Native American status for anything. I could have, mind. For funds for college, and much more but I would much rather have gotten to where I did in my career by my own merits and skills.

I am pleased we agree.

I also am a native American. When I was a kid my mother got me registered with the Blackfoot tribe of the Cherokee (at least that is the name I remember). I have never used that status to any advantage either.

 

[JoStories]

I am pleased we agree.

I also am a native American. When I was a kid my mother got me registered with the Blackfoot tribe of the Cherokee (at least that is the name I remember). I have never used that status to any advantage either.

I, also, am glad we found a mutual agreement. My ties are to the passamoquoddy, a small tribe here in Maine. Our language is Abenaki, though few speak it any longer. It's nice you didn't use the things available to us. I've long felt that ones prowess must come from hard work of our own. I think I read that you've also done well in your career. Congratulations to you.

 

[1robin]

I, also, am glad we found a mutual agreement. My ties are to the passamoquoddy, a small tribe here in Maine. Our language is Abenaki, though few speak it any longer. It's nice you didn't use the things available to us. I've long felt that ones prowess must come from hard work of our own. I think I read that you've also done well in your career. Congratulations to you.

passmoquoddy? That's quite the mouthful.

I have a tribal ID, but I have never used it. I did have a company I work for list me as an Indian so they could get some break concerning employing minorities but it did not benefit me.

As far as my career, I do not know where you would have heard anything about it. I work in a secured military lab and am not allowed to give any specifics over the net. My career success is fair to middling I would suggest. I may be going to Saudi Arabia next year and the pay increase for doing so would boast me into a category where I would classify it as doing well.

 

[JoStories]

passmoquoddy? That's quite the mouthful.

I have a tribal ID, but I have never used it. I did have a company I work for list me as an Indian so they could get some break concerning employing minorities but it did not benefit me.

As far as my career, I do not know where you would have heard anything about it. I work in a secured military lab and am not allowed to give any specifics over the net. My career success is fair to middling I would suggest. I may be going to Saudi Arabia next year and the pay increase for doing so would boast me into a category where I would classify it as doing well.

Its your vernacular which is clearly that of an educated person. I did not mean to pry of course. Nor will I. I do hope you enjoy Saudi Arabia. And I, too, have a tribal ID but have not used it myself, as you have. Best of luck.

 

[1robin]

Its your vernacular which is clearly that of an educated person. I did not mean to pry of course. Nor will I. I do hope you enjoy Saudi Arabia. And I, too, have a tribal ID but have not used it myself, as you have. Best of luck.

I appreciate the sentiments. I was not suggesting you were prying. I was just wondering how you arrived at your conclusion. God bless.

 

[JoStories]

I appreciate the sentiments. I was not suggesting you were prying. I was just wondering how you arrived at your conclusion. God bless.

No worries. And a peaceful Namaste' to you Robin.

 

[1robin]

No worries. And a peaceful Namaste' to you Robin.

That word has it's roots in Sanskrit. If you do not mind answering, what is your educational background? and where are you from?

 

[JoStories]

That word has it's roots in Sanskrit. If you do not mind answering, what is your educational background? and where are you from?

I don't mind at all. I began my career in the Viet Nam war as a nurse. From there, I went on to get a masters in nursing for teaching and then my FNP as a practitioner. About 20 years ago, I also started studying religion and theology. Over time, I earned my graduate degrees. I also studied holistic health and psychology, both which I have degrees in. And I am from Maine but I have traveled the world extensively as a traveling nurse. I spent a year in Africa- Zimbabwe, and have been just about everywhere but the far east and Australia.

 

[JFish123]

There has been much ado about Rachel Dolezal, a woman who tried to pass as black or African-American, and became the head of the Spokane NAACP before resigning when her parents revealed she was of overwhelmingly European heritage.

But setting aside her specific case, why is it hard to imagine people switching their racial affiliation when they commonly switch religious or "tribal" affiliations all the time? People who become Jews, for example, cut off ties not only to their ancestral religion, but also their ancestral heritage. Is it really that different to change one's racial affiliation?

I didn't know I could change my race and become black. It makes me rethink the whole reparations thing ...

 

[ChristineES]

Since I've found out that some scientists are leaning toward the idea that there is no race, just variations in skin tone, etc, I can now say that in my opinion that since there is only one race, then you can't really change it. You can adopt another ethnic group, if you wish, though. Although I am 1/2 Native American, I don't live the life of a Navajo. I don't really live the life of a "white" person (European descent), either. I am just me.

 

[1robin]

I don't mind at all. I began my career in the Viet Nam war as a nurse. From there, I went on to get a masters in nursing for teaching and then my FNP as a practitioner. About 20 years ago, I also started studying religion and theology. Over time, I earned my graduate degrees. I also studied holistic health and psychology, both which I have degrees in. And I am from Maine but I have traveled the world extensively as a traveling nurse. I spent a year in Africa- Zimbabwe, and have been just about everywhere but the far east and Australia.

Impressive. So, your professional training is in medicine but you also have a fervent interest in theology (and the latter is mainly self taught). Correct? As soldier during two wars myself (Gulf wars I, II) I thank you for your service.

 

[JoStories]

Impressive. So, your professional training is in medicine but you also have a fervent interest in theology (and the latter is mainly self taught). Correct? As soldier during two wars myself (Gulf wars I, II) I thank you for your service.

And I thank you as well Robin. As for my interests, there is a growing number of advanced practice nurses who are also incorporating theology or spirituality, the latter being the more used term here, into nursing practice. A goodly number of PhD level nurses, some from other countries, are developing nursing paradigms that include spirituality as it is a very important aspect of the total human. And health is affected by spirituality in many people, adding peace and solace in the face of serious sickness.

 

[1robin]

And I thank you as well Robin. As for my interests, there is a growing number of advanced practice nurses who are also incorporating theology or spirituality, the latter being the more used term here, into nursing practice. A goodly number of PhD level nurses, some from other countries, are developing nursing paradigms that include spirituality as it is a very important aspect of the total human. And health is affected by spirituality in many people, adding peace and solace in the face of serious sickness.

In this day and age that is fascinating. What brand of spiritually is being practiced. I mean Christian spirituality practices would get you killed Saudi Arabia and fired in this brave new secular USA we currently have.

1. Do you use one generalized "spirituality" everywhere.
2. Do you use the accepted spirituality allowed in certain nations?
3. Do you practice spirituality in any form in a tyrannical communist state?

Plus what specific acts do nurses use that are qualified a spirituality?
Do you have an data showing that these practices help?

I am very surprised by this.

 

[JoStories]

In this day and age that is fascinating. What brand of spiritually is being practiced. I mean Christian spirituality practices would get you killed Saudi Arabia and fired in this brave new secular USA we currently have.

1. Do you use one generalized "spirituality" everywhere.
2. Do you use the accepted spirituality allowed in certain nations?
3. Do you practice spirituality in any form in a tyrannical communist state?

Plus what specific acts do nurses use that are qualified a spirituality?
Do you have an data showing that these practices help?

I am very surprised by this.

Honestly, most people are surprised Robin and most are very pleased, based on surveys. as for what 'brand' to use your word, it can be whatever faith or spirituality the person is affliated with. If they are open to a various faith minister (me) I can minister to them regardless of faith, owing to my diverse background in the field. Clearly, if they are Catholic, I will obtain a priest. You get the idea.
1. Yes, spirituality can be whatever the word means to the person. They may be atheist but find solace in nature or singing. It doesn;t really matter at all.
2. Yes, There is a marvelous Christan professor in Scotland (Dr. Swinton) whom I read quite a lot and he is also a nurse, of course. His ideas are fascinating. I have a dear friend who happens to be Muslim and is a PhD nurse and he uses, obviously, Islamic ideals, and so on.
3. I can't answer this as I have not run into it. In Zimbabye, I saw some fascinating forms of faith. Some were both RCC and had aspects of African lore involved. There is a great book I have in my library called African Theology written by an African theologian who has spent his life studying this all over that continent. He describes how the assimilation of African faith has been brought into some of the things missionaries bring to the people.
4. We do anything and everything. We might pray with the person. Therapeutic touch, Reiki, reading to them, helping to get cultural foods, etc.
5. Yes, there is tons out there. Go to Google Scholar and enter spirituality and nursing. There are thousands of articles.

 

[1robin]

Honestly, most people are surprised Robin and most are very pleased, based on surveys. as for what 'brand' to use your word, it can be whatever faith or spirituality the person is affliated with. If they are open to a various faith minister (me) I can minister to them regardless of faith, owing to my diverse background in the field. Clearly, if they are Catholic, I will obtain a priest. You get the idea.

That makes sense to me but I will explain why it also shocked me.

1. Yes, spirituality can be whatever the word means to the person. They may be atheist but find solace in nature or singing. It doesn;t really matter at all.
2. Yes, There is a marvelous Christan professor in Scotland (Dr. Swinton) whom I read quite a lot and he is also a nurse, of course. His ideas are fascinating. I have a dear friend who happens to be Muslim and is a PhD nurse and he uses, obviously, Islamic ideals, and so on.
3. I can't answer this as I have not run into it. In Zimbabye, I saw some fascinating forms of faith. Some were both RCC and had aspects of African lore involved. There is a great book I have in my library called African Theology written by an African theologian who has spent his life studying this all over that continent. He describes how the assimilation of African faith has been brought into some of the things missionaries bring to the people.
4. We do anything and everything. We might pray with the person. Therapeutic touch, Reiki, reading to them, helping to get cultural foods, etc.
5. Yes, there is tons out there. Go to Google Scholar and enter spirituality and nursing. There are thousands of articles.

1. I am not surprised this occurs, I am surprised it is common. Medicine is a field of science and in modern times scientists have formed what almost amount to a cult (called scientism). They deny anything beyond the natural universe and so I am surprised spiritualism is considered a form of therapy these days.
2. Maybe it has value as a placebo effect but I would be hard pressed to have any confidence that any of the millions of forms of spiritualism these days contain any actual power to heal. I may bring the patient what ever priest they want I would not expect that priest to be of much medical benefit.
3. Since most religions (if true) render many others false I would feel like I had a spiritual tool box which contained 90% useless tools. I would be happy to give them their dysfunctional tool for comfort sake but I would not do so thinking it would make them better.

As long as that person receives his or her religious authority of choice I do not see any harm in it , but unless they choose a religion which is true I can't see how it would have any power to help, except maybe as a placebo.


What if the patient is from a tribe of head hunters and the healing ritual requires sacrificing a chicken and having the blood sprinkled around the room? What about an exorcism? Or the drinking of sacred plant juices that you as a nurse know are harmful?

 

[JoStories]

That makes sense to me but I will explain why it also shocked me.



1. I am not surprised this occurs, I am surprised it is common. Medicine is a field of science and in modern times scientists have formed what almost amount to a cult (called scientism). They deny anything beyond the natural universe and so I am surprised spiritualism is considered a form of therapy these days.
2. Maybe it has value as a placebo effect but I would be hard pressed to have any confidence that any of the millions of forms of spiritualism these days contain any actual power to heal. I may bring the patient what ever priest they want I would not expect that priest to be of much medical benefit.
3. Since most religions (if true) render many others false I would feel like I had a spiritual tool box which contained 90% useless tools. I would be happy to give them their dysfunctional tool for comfort sake but I would not do so thinking it would make them better.

As long as that person receives his or her religious authority of choice I do not see any harm in it , but unless they choose a religion which is true I can't see how it would have any power to help, except maybe as a placebo.


What if the patient is from a tribe of head hunters and the healing ritual requires sacrificing a chicken and having the blood sprinkled around the room? What about an exorcism? Or the drinking of sacred plant juices that you as a nurse know are harmful?

I thought about this post for most of the afternoon, trying to decide how I was going to respond to you and I think it best to simply say this Robin.
This is my field of expertize that you so cavalierly dismiss as so much hooey. I have conducted double blind research topics in the area, written numerous papers and developed from scratch and teach a course for graduate students in the area. This subject is now taught at medical schools and is an intergral part of The Cancer Treatment Centers of America. PhD level researchers have pursued this topic alone for the PhD. Dr Swinton being one of those, along with Sister Calista Roy, PhD, Dr. Jean Watson, and let's not forget that Florence Nightingale was a staunch Christian who incorporated this practice as long ago as 150 years, and Doreatha Dix...the list is endless. There now exists a certification in Pastoral Nursing, if you're of an interest and I sincerely doubt they would suggest head hunters. There are dozens of books and text books in the topic from top names. This is what you insult madame. THe lives and work of thousands of educated and brilliant minds.

That said, we are done now.

 

[gnostic]

I have not read any of the replies; I've only just read the OP. So sorry, if anyone already brought this up.

Michael Jackson tried tourn himself white, so I thought his song - Black Or White - was hypocritical.

And considering that none of his children he had adopted are black, you know that he clearly wanted his family to be "not black".

 

[bobhikes]

There has been much ado about Rachel Dolezal, a woman who tried to pass as black or African-American, and became the head of the Spokane NAACP before resigning when her parents revealed she was of overwhelmingly European heritage.

But setting aside her specific case, why is it hard to imagine people switching their racial affiliation when they commonly switch religious or "tribal" affiliations all the time? People who become Jews, for example, cut off ties not only to their ancestral religion, but also their ancestral heritage. Is it really that different to change one's racial affiliation?

Maybe because race is an inherited characteristic whereas religious and "tribal" affiliations are chosen. That said, for me it isn't that hard to imagine at all.

Your racial ancestory has no choice involved. Religion can be chosen. Pretty big difference.

Because, IMHO, no one can change race. They can certainly change cultures or religions but to change one's race from white to black is simply impossible.

To those that believe race is a constant feature for a person and not just homo sapiens. Please list for me the scientific definitions for the races of the world, because I have been unable to find them. Is it the White , Caucasian or European race, Is it the Black, Negro or African race and what other official races are there and there respective titles. It would help me a lot if someone can give me a scientific breakdown of race. If you can if you could identify the race of my children for me. I am French Canadian, Lithuanian, Dutch and Irish(I'm assuming you'd label me White, Caucasian or European) and my wife is (El Salvadorian which I assume is Latina, indian or Hispanic). How are my kids defined scientifically or are they a new race?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Michael Jackson tried tourn himself white, so I thought his song - Black Or White - was hypocritical.

Michael Jackson had a skin disorder, vitiligo, that did that to him.
Autopsy reveals Michael Jackson's secrets - CNN.com
Doctor who did autopsy confirms Jackson had "vitiligo, a skin pigmentation disease"

 

[George-ananda]

To those that believe race is a constant feature for a person and not just homo sapiens. Please list for me the scientific definitions for the races of the world, because I have been unable to find them. Is it the White , Caucasian or European race, Is it the Black, Negro or African race and what other official races are there and there respective titles. It would help me a lot if someone can give me a scientific breakdown of race. If you can if you could identify the race of my children for me. I am French Canadian, Lithuanian, Dutch and Irish(I'm assuming you'd label me White, Caucasian or European) and my wife is (El Salvadorian which I assume is Latina, indian or Hispanic). How are my kids defined scientifically or are they a new race?

Race/Ethnicity is just an imperfect way to classify the diversity in the human race across the globe. It is not something that can be precisely defined and labeled as you seem to be implying its proponents claim. It helps us understand the relationship and closeness of the various ethnic groups of the world. Classification systems are not perfect but not meaningless either.