Changing the Bible

[savagewind]

edit. sorry scratch this. It reminds me of a party-teen movie where the kids are drunk in the back and the driver is trying to figure how to get back to their destination. One god/kid may not know the ride direction. "Turn left, you'll get there" when he should have turn end right down the road. Many passengers who were together (and hopefully not drunk), would say "hey, Bill, I think it's down here a bit." wait, "naw, we did take a right turn on Albuquerque" and his friend says to bill, "you know, I think you're right." and jane says, "yeah, once you get up the block just take a left."

LOL. I think you did right not to erase it. It is good writing and funny, I think.

But I like your analogy though.

Thank you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is because I believe it isn't about each person, but it is about the destination of ALL people, Humankind. Where is humankind going? There is only one destination. How can there be more than one?

Because there is more than one person. To put everyone in one destination is like telling two artists they both have to draw a house even though you give them the option to choose different ways how.

In real life, we have our own goals, our own destinations, and by knowing this makes me feel I am not crushed into making a house because I am told to but if a house turns up, it doesn't have to have four sides and a door.

Another way to put it.

I don't know where you live now. In the US we have four lane roads. If there is a elementary school on one side usually there is a crossing guard. Now, I've seen it to where cars literally don't pay no mine to this guard. Yet, when I see two crossing guards working on either side, the traffic is more "patient."

It's the same when I see police directing traffic. Usually there is more than one. It doesn't create discord to have more than one guide as long as those guides work together as a unit or community. Can you imagine one crossing guard or one police officer directing traffic for so many people at a parade at one end of town and a rights protest on the other?

We have soo many interests, beliefs, goals, and so forth. How in the world can we tell Jane and Jim they have the same destination. This artist's head will blow up!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

LOL. I think you did right not to erase it. It is good writing and funny, I think.Thank you.

Thanks! For a minute I thought I was supporting your side. But I see where you're coming from, I just don't understand that "one destination", one calling, one household, one teacher, and so forth.

 

[Katzpur]

At this point in my life I pretty much have an allergic reaction to the word "commandments". But, often as a believing Mormon, especially after learning a little more about how humans function psychologically, I began to be dissatisfied with the big Ten. With all the wisdom, insight, and understanding of human nature and our needs that God was supposed to have, the Ten Commandments seemed to be lacking in the instructions that would really be useful to humankind.There is no commandment against physical abuse. There is no commandment to work for social justice. It would have been nice if the message in the Beattitudes was in the big Ten.

Dave, you are absolutely, positively my kind of Mormon! You have said so eloquently what I would have loved to say in Relief Society about a million times but haven't had the guts.

(I see you joined RF in 2006, and that you just posted for the first time. Do us all a favor, and don't wait another ten years before you post again!)

 

[Dave Sigmann]

Dave, you are absolutely, positively my kind of Mormon! You have said so eloquently what I would have loved to say in Relief Society about a million times but haven't had the guts.

(I see you joined RF in 2006, and that you just posted for the first time. Do us all a favor, and don't wait another ten years before you post again!)

Katzpur,

I recognize you username from many years ago on a different forum. You probably know me as Hueffenhardt. I am no longer a Mormon; I haven't been for 11 years. I was saying that even when I was Mormon...

Good to see you again!

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur,

I recognize you username from many years ago on a different forum. You probably know me as Hueffenhardt. I am no longer a Mormon; I haven't been for 11 years. I was saying that even when I was Mormon...

Good to see you again!

Hueffenhardt!! No kidding? Well, welcome to RF! I'm still over on City-Data a lot. Why'd you stop posting there?

 

[Christ's Prophet]

I guess this is geared to anyone who isn't Christian or sees the full bible as inspired in one way or another. That said.

What would you take out of the bible and put in the bible to make it a better example for people (not just Christians) to follow as a religious text?​

1. Many religious texts have killings in it. A lot of stories around killings by "god(s)" etc are supposed to teach morals of some sort. Since we also die in life, taking out killing in the Bible wouldn't change people anymore than taking out murder is against the law. It goes beyond killings.

2. Slavery in America, at least, is not present as it was years ago in another country. With that, in the past slaves were not people torn and whipped. They are usually convicted persons as you see those cleaning trash off the street doing their "time" or employees doing work for their bosses. It was regular place back them. We can't put today's morals on yesterdays standards.

3. Many religious texts have a concept of hell whether it be called a type of consequence for ones actions, a punishment, or an actual place. Nichiren Shonin says The Buddha taught hell is in our hearts and minds. Not all Christianity teaches hell as a place. Hell is just a consequence of the worse sin: rejecting god. If you reject your mother's love, why would you expect to receive it at the same time. And if the mother's love was actually good, wouldn't not having it mean you lost something you could have had to your benefit? (Outside of choice), if there is no light, there is darkness. No details just simple logic.

4. Most religions have some sort of bias and discrimination. Christianity is no exclusion.

People don't define the Bible. So instead of going off of what Christians define the bible as, from what you know of the Bible and to some of you have studied, what things would you take out of the bible and what would you put in to make people (not just Christians) better?

​

Mankind has been trying to change the Bible for centuries, just because they don’t like what is in it. There are over 150 versions of the Bible on the market today, each one by law has to be 10% different than any other in order to get their money. How many times can you say the same verse different ways just because you have to?

The Bible is a book of instruction, but it is also a Book of history. Although there are so many different versions, they all basically say the same thing. Many of the cults bring out their own version of the Bible. They delete or change certain passages of Scripture to support their own ideas and biases.

The truth is, we mustn’t manipulate Scripture because we don’t like certain parts. Are we then setting ourselves up as God and overruling God’s Word? We must accept God’s Word as a whole because every part of Scripture has something to teach us. We should not be looking to change Scripture, but we should be allowing Scripture to change us. That is the real question. Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity

 

[savagewind]

Mankind has been trying to change the Bible for centuries, just because they don’t like what is in it. There are over 150 versions of the Bible on the market today, each one by law has to be 10% different than any other in order to get their money. How many times can you say the same verse different ways just because you have to?

The Bible is a book of instruction, but it is also a Book of history. Although there are so many different versions, they all basically say the same thing. Many of the cults bring out their own version of the Bible. They delete or change certain passages of Scripture to support their own ideas and biases.

The truth is, we mustn’t manipulate Scripture because we don’t like certain parts. Are we then setting ourselves up as God and overruling God’s Word? We must accept God’s Word as a whole because every part of Scripture has something to teach us. We should not be looking to change Scripture, but we should be allowing Scripture to change us. That is the real question. Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity

Interesting. So? You say that a changed scripture would be like overruling God's Word and that those who do it are setting themselves up as God. What about the people who accept a changed scripture? Are they also setting themselves up as The God? Does God care?

 

[omega2xx]

Hm. I heard of the Jefferson Bible but never actually read it. I love Proverbs and Ecclesiastes too. Very poetical. Many Proverbs I'd overlook but in general they are good. Yeah, I can see why revelations would be out.

Do you believe all of the proverbs or just the ones you like? Revelation just requires some serious study, not just dismissing.

 

[omega2xx]

eh, Ecclestialise 3 is for the byrds.

Can you be specific?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do you believe all of the proverbs or just the ones you like?

I am not Christian

I have read the full Bible

I read the ones I like

Not anymore, though. When I pick up the Bible, I feel icky. Something snapped in me after my grandmother's passing that I never wanted to pick up the Bible sinse. It's not for everyone.

Revelation just requires some serious study, not just dismissing.

Yeah. I read the Bible twice. When I was about 16ish, I didn't understand the Bible in a spiritual light. I loved to study. Revelations was thick, though. After I was confirmed at 30, I learned a lot more. Psalms took a long 'while to get through. So what I did was read the old and new testament at the same time. They cross referenced each other and what I know about the Church. Pretty cool how some things line up.

But then again, that's when I practiced.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Interesting. So? You say that a changed scripture would be like overruling God's Word and that those who do it are setting themselves up as God. What about the people who accept a changed scripture? Are they also setting themselves up as The God? Does God care?

Some people base their salvation on scripture (words) rather than Christ (Word). One of those things. I never understood how a Christian needs scripture to know christ. If he's spirit, wouldn't he talk through your heart not depended on your brain knowledge?

 

[omega2xx]

I am not Christian

I have read the full Bible

I read the ones I like

Not anymore, though. When I pick up the Bible, I feel icky. Something snapped in me after my grandmother's passing that I never wanted to pick up the Bible sinse. It's not for everyone.

If you want to see your grandmother again, the Bible should encourage you to continue to not only read it, but to study it.

Yeah. I read the Bible twice. When I was about 16ish, I didn't understand the Bible in a spiritual light. I loved to study. Revelations was thick, though. After I was confirmed at 30, I learned a lot more. Psalms took a long 'while to get through. So what I did was read the old and new testament at the same time. They cross referenced each other and what I know about the Church. Pretty cool how some things line up.

But then again, that's when I practiced.

I would not have a Bible that did not have cross references. They are a great help.

I never understood any of the Bible until I ask God to help me. Hopefully you are a prodigal and will return.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you want to see your grandmother again, the Bible should encourage you to continue to not only read it, but to study it.

Did you read my post?

I would not have a Bible that did not have cross references. They are a great help.

They do, yes. Sometimes I use the sutras (Buddhist scriptures) and cross reference the Lotus with the Pali suttas. It gives an insight on what the disciples and The Buddha talks about when it comes to morals and practice. Cross referencing in any religious text helps get the context and content of the message as well as application of the message.

I never understood any of the Bible until I ask God to help me. Hopefully you are a prodigal and will return.

Many hope. I don't understand why many Christians don't understand and/or accept not a lot of us want to be Christians and have no need to be. I know others get it. Christians are the only ones I know that don't for some reason.

 

[fantome profane]

eh, Ecclestialise 3 is for the byrds.

Can you be specific?

Yes, specifically these byrds.

 

[omega2xx]

Did you read my post

Yes

They do, yes. Sometimes I use the sutras (Buddhist scriptures) and cross reference the Lotus with the Pali suttas. It gives an insight on what the disciples and The Buddha talks about when it comes to morals and practice. Cross referencing in any religious text helps get the context and content of the message as well as application of the message.

Right.

Many hope. I don't understand why many Christians don't understand and/or accept not a lot of us want to be Christians and have no need to be. I know others get it. Christians are the only ones I know that don't for some reason.

I don't understand why anyone would give a religion that has God, for one that doesn't.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes



Right.



I don't understand why anyone would give a religion that has God, for one that doesn't.

I can only speak for me. It's not in my brain and heart to believe there is a god. It doesn't benefit me if the god of Christianity does exist. The idea of a creator in and of itself does not make sense to me regardless of the religion. I'm more of a connect-with-people-on-earth. People meaning those living and those in spirit as well as environment. I'm a ground person not looking to the sky for god (analogy).

I guess it's something we both won't understand.

A lot of people say they don't believe because they don't have evidence and/or because of the people. A few say they just don't believe because they don't. I know it's hard to imagine; but, life isn't wrapped around only the belief in god. To think of it like that is, well, limiting the nature of life and it's variety. If I believed in god, I'd be a polytheist since there are so many things that mirror the gods, why would I limit myself to knowing one. However, I'm not a polytheist in regards to deities.

So, I can't relate to deity believers only those who believe in the spirits; there are millions who do.

 

[omega2xx]

I can only speak for me. It's not in my brain and heart to believe there is a god. It doesn't benefit me if the god of Christianity does exist. The idea of a creator in and of itself does not make sense to me regardless of the religion. I'm more of a connect-with-people-on-earth. People meaning those living and those in spirit as well as environment. I'm a ground person not looking to the sky for god (analogy).

I guess it's something we both won't understand.

A lot of people say they don't believe because they don't have evidence and/or because of the people. A few say they just don't believe because they don't. I know it's hard to imagine; but, life isn't wrapped around only the belief in god. To think of it like that is, well, limiting the nature of life and it's variety. If I believed in god, I'd be a polytheist since there are so many things that mirror the gods, why would I limit myself to knowing one. However, I'm not a polytheist in regards to deities.

So, I can't relate to deity believers only those who believe in the spirits; there are millions who do.

I am not here to change you mind, only to share what I believe an why I believe it. I will address some of your comments.

Itg is in your heart to believe God exists. Every tribe ever found has some belief in a deity(s) of some kind. The fact that you did at one time is the evidence of Jn 1:9 - There was the Light, which coming into the world enlightens every man.

It does benefit not only you but everyone else if God does exist. It benefit His children even more.

True life is wrapped up around a belief in God. Life makes no sensed without God.

What spirits do you believe in and how do they benefit you? Be specific.

Good angels are ministering spirits sent out to render service to those who will inherit salvation---Heb 1:14.

The demons are fallen spirits that Satan uses to deceive us.

Try to makes sure you can identify the good ones.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is in your heart to believe God exists. Every tribe ever found has some belief in a deity(s) of some kind. The fact that you did at one time is the evidence of Jn 1:9 - There was the Light, which coming into the world enlightens every man.

I believe in god (god Is life-which is not perfect and not a spirit) not a deity and not a deity as jesus. I found a very big conflict in how I see "god" and how christian see god as well as a disagreement with a lot of biblical teachings, so I felt it would be disrespectful for me to practice half halfheartedly. That's not me.

I've never been a part of a tribe; so, I don't know their concept of deity. In Lucumi, from when I spoke with a Santera, they believe god is a female not a male. Females give birth to creation; and, I agree to that. So, every tribe is different. Many tribes have been unfortunately and sadly colonized by Christians so their practices are mixed. It's very unnerving to hear stories about Christians and missionaries evangelizing and telling other people not to practice their faiths.

It does benefit not only you but everyone else if God does exist. It benefit His children even more.

I think a lot of Christians really, really, really, want people who are not deity-believers to believe in Christ. It's an indirect indoctrination (colonization) that still is present in Christians today.

It only benefits believers who believe in a deity. How can I (from my point of view) benefit from a deity I know does not exist? How is that logical?

True life is wrapped up around a belief in God. Life makes no sensed without God.

Yes, it does make sense without god/deity. God, if one likes, is life not created life. Without life, we wouldn't be here. We are a part of life, we make life up, and everything-spirits included-are what makes life run. I have a high moral belief in the fact of The Buddhas teachings. Life is made up of karma-the laws of cause and affect through how our actions affect ourselves, others, and our environment.

A deity just doesn't figure into this. Even if it did, I would rather believe in the Lucumi deity rather than Christian because Yamaya, the Orisha of the water gave birth to creation. We come from the water, and through her that's our birth. That's how we learn about Olorin, the creator, is through the Orishas. That is beautiful.

Unfortunately, I do not believe in a deity and no one has expressed how African Yoruba define deity because they have been colonized by Christians too to where their religion has been split in half. When I have the money and resources, I will get another divination session. For now, that is the closest to a god I would get. As far as deities, no.

What spirits do you believe in and how do they benefit you? Be specific.

Spirits of those who passed (for example family and history) and spirits of our environment (sun, moon, earth).

Without our family both on earth and in spirit we would not know who we are and our purpose. Without the sun, moon, and earth, we would not exist.

My grandmother passed away three or so years ago. She protected me from getting hit by a car. I speak to my family everyday. I give offerings to the sun for giving me energy and life and to the moon to balance me and remind me were we are from-the water. It's an ongoing communication that no one god can replace.

Good angels are ministering spirits sent out to render service to those who will inherit salvation---Heb 1:14.

I don't believe in angels. They aren't in my line of reasoning. Heb 1:14 doesn't help. That's like my giving you my grandmother's memoir to prove what I say is true because I an personally connected to her. How would that benefit you when you never knew her?

The demons are fallen spirits that Satan uses to deceive us.

If you like.

Try to makes sure you can identify the good ones.

How do you identify with something that does not exist?

 

[Ponder This]

The idea of "changing" the Bible to conform to our ideas of moral rightness shows a fundamental misconception about what the Bible is.

The Bible isn't a how to guide on morality so much as it is a record of testimonies. When someone gives their testimony regarded events that occurred or things that were said, it isn't considered proper to go and change the testimony because you disagree. The idea of say going into the book of Mark and changing it to say something else that fits how we think it should be is strange because then it wouldn't be Mark's testimony anymore - it would be our own corruption of it.

The reasonable way to consider changing the Bible is to consider if there are more accurate documents of the various Books of the Bible or to add new Books that are relevant. This sort of thing is a matter of historical research and the search for authenticity. This means looking at testimonies such as the apocrypha or examining the contents of the Dead Sea scrolls as they relate to existing testimonies to make sure those testimonies are as complete and authentic as possible.

This is why even if the testimonies are considered to be flawed, the idea of changing the Bible to conform to our own philosophies is an even more flawed notion. As the old adage goes: "two wrongs don't make a right".