Changing the Bible

[savagewind]

The idea of "changing" the Bible to conform to our ideas of moral rightness shows a fundamental misconception about what the Bible is.

The Bible isn't a how to guide on morality so much as it is a record of testimonies. When someone gives their testimony regarded events that occurred or things that were said, it isn't considered proper to go and change the testimony because you disagree. The idea of say going into the book of Mark and changing it to say something else that fits how we think it should be is strange because then it wouldn't be Mark's testimony anymore - it would be our own corruption of it.

The reasonable way to consider changing the Bible is to consider if there are more accurate documents of the various Books of the Bible or to add new Books that are relevant. This sort of thing is a matter of historical research and the search for authenticity. This means looking at testimonies such as the apocrypha or examining the contents of the Dead Sea scrolls as they relate to existing testimonies to make sure those testimonies are as complete and authentic as possible.

This is why even if the testimonies are considered to be flawed, the idea of changing the Bible to conform to our own philosophies is an even more flawed notion. As the old adage goes: "two wrongs don't make a right".

Are you not able to consider that the Dead Sea scrolls were copied incorrectly ie with the copiest's ideas about what it should say?

Why might it be possible to add mistaken meaning now, but not possible when the scrolls were first copied?

The Dead Sea scrolls are copies. The first written documents do not exist anymore. Also, some of what was written wasn't actual testimony but was hearsay.

 

[Marty]

In the last book of the Bible, Revelation, in the last paragraph, is a warning about adding to or taking away ANYTHING, even ONE WORD from God's inspired word. It is as follows: Revelation 22:
18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll.

So doing so basically means you will die. You will be destroyed, as you will become God's enemy. You will suffer the punishments accounted in the book of Revelation.

As far as the "hell" you spoke of, none exists, other than the "common grave of mankind". If you go to the ancient texts from which Bibles are translated from the ancient original languages into English, you won't find a word in them for hell, except for one instance, where it describes hell as that "common grave of mankind". In almost all English translations of the Bible, hell appears many times. This is accounted for because those translations are altered by the translators, so that the reader will believe what the translator wants them to believe, rather than what God intended to say to us. Going back to the last paragraph of Revelation, those translators are going to be literally exterminated permanently by God in the final battle, which according to Revelation, is to happen very, very soon. Matthew describes a list of things, that if they are all happening at once, then the final battle is just about upon us, and all of those things, right now, are happening all at once. So, rather than getting farther from God, it would seem that right now is a very good time to get closer to Him, and to start obeying His every command, so that we might be saved alive, rather than destroyed permanently and forever. He promises His faithful followers a permanent life in a paradise Earth, in perfect health, perfect happiness, never to shed another tear. That sounds pretty good to me, rather than being exterminated forever.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

We must accept God’s Word as a whole because every part of Scripture has something to teach us.

We have an NT precisely because a bunch of people decided not to accept just the OT....

Revelation just requires some serious study, not just dismissing.

I agree. It's psychologically fascinating to watch apocalypse porn play out.

If you want to see your grandmother again, the Bible should encourage you to continue to not only read it, but to study it.

She's in there? O_O

I don't understand why anyone would give a religion that has God, for one that doesn't.

Only the sick need the doc -- Jesus

I think a lot of Christians really, really, really, want people who are not deity-believers to believe in Christ. It's an indirect indoctrination (colonization) that still is present in Christians today.

Yes, it screams, "We get paid per new recruit" or something. Truth doesn't rely on numbers.

In the last book of the Bible, Revelation, in the last paragraph, is a warning about adding to or taking away ANYTHING, even ONE WORD from God's inspired word.

Yes. It's the ancient version of the FBI copyright warning ... and the internet proves people listen about as well now as they did back then.

So doing so basically means you will die. You will be destroyed, as you will become God's enemy. You will suffer the punishments accounted in the book of Revelation.

Technically, it's only present in Revelation, which is not the entire bible. You realize the bible is not one book, but a collection of many, right?

 

[savagewind]

I agree. It's psychologically fascinating to watch apocalypse porn play out.

I think that sentence should be famous.

 

[allfoak]

People don't define the Bible. So instead of going off of what Christians define the bible as, from what you know of the Bible and to some of you have studied, what things would you take out of the bible and what would you put in to make people (not just Christians) better?

I would restore the knowledge that the eternal soul is the prodigal son.
Which is the hidden meaning of the story of Job.

Gospel of the Nazirenes
Chap 37

1.Jesus sat in the porch of the temple, and some came to learn His doctrine, and one said to Him, "Master, what do you teach concerning life?"

2.And He said to them, "Blessed are they who suffer many experiences, for they will be made perfect through suffering; they will be as the angels of God in heaven and will die no more. Neither will they be born any more, for death and birth have no more dominion over them."

3."They who have suffered and have overcome will be made pillars of the temple of my God, and they will go out no more. I say to you, except you be born again of water and of fire, you cannot see the kingdom of God."

4.And a certain Rabbi, Nicodemus, came to Him by night for fear of the Jews, and said to Him, "How can a man be born again when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born again?"

5.Jesus answered "Except a man be born again of flesh and of spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God. The wind blows where it lists, and you hear the sound of it, but can not tell from where it comes or to where it goes."

6."The light shines from the East even to the West; out of the darkness. The sun rises and sets into darkness again; so is it with man, from the ages to the ages."

7."When it cometh from the darkness, it is that he has lived before, and when it goes down again into darkness, it is that he may rest for a little, and there after again exist."

8."So through many changes must you be made perfect, as it is written in the book of Job, 'I am a wanderer, changing place after place and house after house, until I come into the city and mansion which is eternal.'"

9.And Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?" And Jesus answered , "You are a teacher in Israel, and do not understand these things? Truly, we speak that which we know, and bear witness to that which we have seen, and you do not receive our witness."


10."If I tell you of earthly things, and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you of heavenly things? No one ascends into heaven, unless they descended out of heaven, even the son or daughter of man which is in Heaven."

This & That: The Reflections of Allfoak

 

[omega2xx]

We have an NT precisely because a bunch of people decided not to accept just the OT....

If you have anything besides personal opinion, you need to produce it when making such a statement.

I agree. It's psychologically fascinating to watch apocalypse porn play out.

Silly is a silly does. Get a good dictionary and get the definition of porn. If you don' understand it, maybe you have a neighbor who can explain it to you?

She's in there? O_O

Where?

Only the sick need the doc -- Jesus

Everyone is spiritually sick until Jesus heals them.

Yes, it screams, "We get paid per new recruit" or something. Truth doesn't rely on numbers.

Have I ever suggested such a thing? Truth also doesn't rely on personal opinions.

Yes. It's the ancient version of the FBI copyright warning ... and the internet proves people listen about as well now as they did back then.

Of course. All of the non-believers get their theology from atheists internet sites. The are looking for support of the theology and don't realize atheist sites are as ignorant of Christianity and the Bible as they are. It is like then blind leading the blind.

Technically, it's only present in Revelation, which is not the entire bible. You realize the bible is not one book, but a collection of many, right?

Where is it present in Revelation?

The Bible is one book with many chapters pointing to the same truth in different ways.

 

[metis]

I wonder what Jesus would say about his supposed followers that post in such sarcastic and demeaning ways, just looking for ways to cut those who may disagree with them? And then I wonder why someone who actually believes in Jesus would actually think that they can win some over by the use of such sarcasm and demeaning talk?

It's a mystery.

 

[omega2xx]

I wonder what Jesus would say about his supposed followers that post in such sarcastic and demeaning ways, just looking for ways to cut those who may disagree with them? And then I wonder why someone who actually believes in Jesus would actually think that they can win some over by the use of such sarcasm and demeaning talk?

It's a mystery.

Let me try to help you solve this mystery.

Not all sarcasm is insulting, but I can see why some might think it is. Second sarcasm it a good way to make a point stand out and make the other person think.

Finally Jesus had no problem using it when speaking to the religions leaders. In fact He went beyond sarcasm calling them hypocrites and sons of the devil. When Jesus said, "you strain at a gnat and swallow a camel," that is sarcasm.

I know I probably cross the line at times, but true sarcasm can appear insulting as in the example I just offered.

 

[metis]

"Hate the sin, not the sinner"?

Also, since Jesus may have demeaned some others doesn't make it right. The more proper way is to demean the actions, not the entire person.

BTW, it's difficult to know precisely what Jesus actually said since his "quotes" weren't written down until decades after he was gone. For example, did he actually refer to Peter as "Satan", or is this just how it's rendered in the scriptures whereas the more literal direct translation is that he did? Probably most theologians don't think he meant as such, nor do I.

 

[savagewind]

Truth also doesn't rely on personal opinions.

Please prove to us that the Bible has zero personal opinion in it.

 

[omega2xx]

Please prove to us that the Bible has zero personal opinion in it.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. If you don't accept that, it can't be proved to you.

 

[savagewind]

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. If you don't accept that, it can't be proved to you.

I am asking how you know that "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" isn't someone else's opinion.


It is because you do not want it to be anything else ie YOUR opinion.

 

[savagewind]

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. If you don't accept that, it can't be proved to you.

If ALL scripture is by God there shouldn't be anything missing. Do you believe there is nothing missing?

 

[allfoak]

If ALL scripture is by God there shouldn't be anything missing. Do you believe there is nothing missing?

I'm going to poke my nose in here for fun.
The scripture in this instance came from within the people who wrote them.

2 Timothy 3:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

This presents an interesting idea.
If the words written down were inspired (meaning they came from within) then what is more important, the words they wrote down which can now be corrupted or where the knowledge came from?
Within.

The bible can't be trusted because it is corruptible.
What is not corruptible is the knowledge within.
All understanding comes from within.

Inspiration is such a wonderful thing!

 

[omega2xx]

I am asking how you know that "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" isn't someone else's opinion.


It is because you do not want it to be anything else ie YOUR opinion.

Guess again.

 

[omega2xx]

If ALL scripture is by God there shouldn't be anything missing. Do you believe there is nothing missing?

Would you leave out something important to your children? God would not to someone He loves.

 

[allfoak]

Oh boy!
A guessing game!

 

[savagewind]

Would you leave out something important to your children? God would not to someone He loves.

Whenever you say, "God would" or "God wouldn't" you are proving to be wrong according to The Bible which says that NOBODY knows God's thoughts except The Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11

Are you the spirit of god @omega2xx?

Is 1 Cor 2:11 something that God tells us is important?

In what way is 1 Cor 2:11 important to you?

 

[omega2xx]

Whenever you say, "God would" or "God wouldn't" you are proving to be wrong according to The Bible which says that NOBODY knows God's thoughts except The Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11

The Spirit of God teaches those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit about the gso God.

Are you the spirit of god @omega2xx?

Of course not, but I have His spirit indwelling me.

Is 1 Cor 2:11 something that God tells us is important?

Everything God reveals in His inspired word is important.

In what way is 1 Cor 2:11 important to you?

It tells me I can understand the word of God because I do no think it is foolishness like the natural man in v14.

 

[savagewind]

The Spirit of God teaches those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit about the gso God.

I do not doubt that The Holy Spirit ever dwelled in you, but I know that once being together does not mean always being together.

Of course not, but I have His spirit indwelling me.

My guess is that you do not reevaluate much.

Everything God reveals in His inspired word is important.

An understatement for sure.

In what way is 1 Cor 2:11 important to you?

It teaches me not to trust myself in the important business of TRUTH.