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Changing the words in Roald Dahl's book to remove offence strikes me as...

F1fan

Veteran Member
This is another early step in one of the most terrifying, society-ending slippery slopes I can imagine.

A piece of speech - written or otherwise - cannot be described as offensive. A person can CHOOSE to be offended, but that's different.
That is overly idealistic, and at one time I would have agreed with you. One of my neighbors is a black woman who not only found her ancestors who were slaves in Texas, but also found the poeple who owned them, who still had a ranch in Texas. She went on to tell me about her experiences as a black woman in America, and I had no idea how horrible it is. She is a sensitive person, also gay, and to my mind she has allowed the actions and reactions of racist people around her in society to affect her too much. But when I hear how she has had to deal with racism for her whole life, and nearly every day, it can see how it's exhausting for some folks.

It sucks that we have to be calused and indifferent to cope in a modern society that still has serious racism problems. I'm a straight, white male so have all the advantages and privileges. I can't assume to guess how life is for the marginalized who still have to fight for equality and compete in the marketplace.

I have NEVER met or heard of a person I think is smart enough to determine what I can or cannot listen to!!!!!! This is total cow excrement!
The well educated and rational have a huge advantage to putting controversial content in proper context. The rest are what their social condition has created.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
She is a sensitive person, also gay, and to my mind she has allowed the actions and reactions of racist people around her in society to affect her too much. But when I hear how she has had to deal with racism for her whole life, and nearly every day, it can see how it's exhausting for some folks.

It sucks that we have to be calused and indifferent to cope in a modern society that still has serious racism problems. I'm a straight, white male so have all the advantages and privileges. I can't assume to guess how life is for the marginalized who still have to fight for equality and compete in the marketplace.

By no means am I saying that we should ignore speech that people are likely to find offensive. We should push back against such speech. It's just that censorship is a horribly dangerous approach to the problem.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I believe the changes made to classic literature, over the past few decades, was a political warmup, with the long term goals of revisionist history and full scale censorship. The first changes were justified, by the subjective standards of Left wing PC. These words are offensive. This led to revisionist history; party reinforcing their own fairy tales, and then to full scale censorship, as was witnessed on Twitter before the 2020 election.

The scam started out innocent enough, under the guise of not hurting the feelings of Left wing constituents. This morphed into censorship of an entire political party, because what the Right believed, which is classic thinking, was programmed to hurt the feelings of Lefties. Censored was justified; Pavlov response.

Does anyone on the Left still think the Twitter censorship was justified, based on how you were conditioned to feel about the evil Right? The Left plays long ball and often sets the ground work, early, in ways that slowly move the boundaries of common sense. Often one does to see the glacial damage until, you are told this is now the new norm.

It is better to treat people as healthy adults and not as neurotic children paralyzed by words. It is better to expose and desensitize young and older people, so they can have an adult discussion about classical literature, which gives everyone a glimpse history. This allows us to see where we came from, and draw a line to the present. Revisionist history and censorship tries to change the past and therefore the change slope of the curve, in an attempt to hide data that would undermine their scam.

For example, in Huckleberry Finn, the main character, Huck did say the N-word, often. However, his black friend was not bothered by it. The N-word was not always defined as the modern Left tries to define it, to create division. Adding new definitions to words, and then having Google search come up with the new definition instead of the one used 100 time more often, was part of the scam. This will create conflict between two people who both innocently assume two different definitions.

Word games and censorship are also designed to act like prohibitions, to create temptation, which will then lead to obsessed over reactions to help reinforce the division. I believe the rank and file Left was unaware how they were being used as lab rats, by those in power, where more power was their end game.

I remember when reading Huckleberry Finn, with the modern slang in mind, I wondered why that large black man took it and did not get mad at Huckleberry or even threaten him, like one would expect in modern times. The reason was the Left had not yet poisoned the well when the book was written.

The Latin word for black is Niger; pronounced with a long I like the word kite. It was mispronounced with a short i, like the work kit, by those who were not educated in Latin. Niger originally was short for black man, with black man not offensive even today.

The modern slang, with the short i and double NN in the middle, was originally made fun of by scholars versus hay seeds. Huckleberry was turned into a bigot due to Left wing word games, since in the book his black man friend saw no harm, but enjoyed accompanying Huck on his adventures. This is the dark side of revisionist history, nearing its end game.
People never notice the close friendship Huck had with Jim in the stories.

I love all of Samuel Clemens works.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
To quote Tim Minchin from his epic work:

"
… In our modern free-spoken society
There is a word that we still hold taboo (Taboo, taboo)
A word with a terrible history
Of being used to abuse, oppress and subdue
Just six seemingly harmless letters
Arranged in a way that will form a word
With more power than the pieces of metal
That are forged to make swords (Swords, swords)
… A couple of Gs, an R and an E, an I and an N, N, N
Just six little letters all jumbled together
Have caused damage that we may never mend"

 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
When I was learning piano, I bought a book of (simplified) pieces from West Side Story, one of my all time favorites. In one song, Maria describes herself as "pretty and witty and gay". Can you believe they had rewritten that to avoid the word "gay"? The change was quite substantial as they had to retain rhyme and meter.

Words fail me.
I'm surprised they didn't just add a notation to point out that gay used to exclusively mean joy and happiness in that era.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Frankly I think the editing of classic books is ineffective since there are plenty of old copies out there floating around. I think it better to just teach kids about the history of language and racism along with the stories.

It is, but there are many states that do not address in such a way.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
It is, but there are many states that do not address in such a way.
I'm not familiar with America's education system, which varies by state. But it seems there has been a dumbing down of America over the last half century. The American comedian Steve Allen wrote a book years ago called Dumbth

https://www.amazon.com/Dumbth-Thinking-Reason-Better-Improve/dp/1573922374

and he outlines many observatives with a loss in vital skills of reasoning. I think the lack of skilled thinking among Americans is a big factor in why there are efforts to edit books, and growing social and political division. For example there are many conservatives who still want Trump to be president even though he is corrupt and shown a great deal of ineptitude in the job. No rational person can make such a decision.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I suppose anyone could try to sue, but whether it's successful depends on the judge. I don't see how it could succeed, unless the judge is a raving lunatic. I suppose we could rewrite all of history so it doesn't offend anyone.
Activists on the left & the right are getting the
vapors over Roald Dahl, Dr Seuss, Mark Twain,
& lesser known authors writing about alternative
family situations. They're banning & demanding
re-writes of books that offend their ever evolving
fragile sensibilities.
In our system, one needn't win to win, ie, one can
lose the battle in court, but win the war by imposing
crushing costs on the defense. (A standard Donald
Trump trick.)
We don't have a loser-pay system, so a prevailing
defendant seldom wins compensation for legal costs.

BTW, in my many discussions about the loser-pay
system, I've found that it's lefties who favor the
right to sue without risk. And of course lawyers,
whose bread & butter is meritless lawsuits.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I think the lack of skilled thinking among Americans is a big factor in why there are efforts to edit books, and growing social and political division. For example there are many conservatives who still want Trump to be president even though he is corrupt and shown a great deal of ineptitude in the job. No rational person can make such a decision.

I think the process began with the 'politically correct' business. Even Disney media, and the old 'song of the south' type were eliminated. For all too many the man/woman running for president is important only as far as his/her agenda meets their requirement, the end always justifies the means. Add to that social media's ability to unite those of the same ilk. I'm afraid gone are the days when we ask, 'what can we do for our country', and not 'what can our country do for me'.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm not familiar with America's education system, which varies by state. But it seems there has been a dumbing down of America over the last half century. The American comedian Steve Allen wrote a book years ago called Dumbth

https://www.amazon.com/Dumbth-Thinking-Reason-Better-Improve/dp/1573922374

and he outlines many observatives with a loss in vital skills of reasoning. I think the lack of skilled thinking among Americans is a big factor in why there are efforts to edit books, and growing social and political division. For example there are many conservatives who still want Trump to be president even though he is corrupt and shown a great deal of ineptitude in the job. No rational person can make such a decision.
To get back to the OP, this is a British company that is altering Roald's works. Cood are weigh of thinkking bee spredding?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think the process began with the 'politically correct' business. Even Disney media, and the old 'song of the south' type were eliminated. For all too many the man/woman running for president is important only as far as his/her agenda meets their requirement, the end always justifies the means. Add to that social media's ability to unite those of the same ilk. I'm afraid gone are the days when we ask, 'what can we do for our country', and not 'what can our country do for me'.
I still listen to Zippity Do Da on occasion and I still like it. No regrets for liking it either.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
To get back to the OP, this is a British company that is altering Roald's works. Cood are weigh of thinkking bee spredding?

When America sneezes, the world catches a cold...

I can only speak for Australia, but we are trending in the same general direction in terms of polarisation to a degree.
Our political processes are better designed to regulate against that (in my opinion) but the general increase of both the left and right wanting some level of control on narrative is similar.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
...contrary to his intention. I grew up on Dahl's books, but I'll admit that there are plenty of other books I grew up with that I struggle with these days due to their out of date stories. Dahl, however, was pretty deliberately trying to be somewhat edgy. He deliberately used provocative words to capture his audience. So I just wonder whether we are missing the point a little in editing his works to make it 'more acceptable'.

Revolting Rhymes was not designed to be acceptable, even in the language of it's day.

Anyway, interested in thoughts across the spectrum.

Critics reject changes to Roald Dahl books as censorship - ABC News (go.com)
Huuuuuuge Roald Dahl fan here! Love, love, love all of his books. Why? Because they're so different than all the other boring kids' books out there. I grew up on these. And I read them to my niece and nephew who also love them.

This is dumb. Quit changing classic books.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
When America sneezes, the world catches a cold...

I can only speak for Australia, but we are trending in the same general direction in terms of polarisation to a degree.
Our political processes are better designed to regulate against that (in my opinion) but the general increase of both the left and right wanting some level of control on narrative is similar.


The question is are we exporting our idiocy? Or are we merely the first to succumb to it?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
The question is are we exporting our idiocy? Or are we merely the first to succumb to it?

The answer is 'Yes'...lol.

It's actually not the US's 'fault', btw.
American culture has always had an outsized influence. When I was growing up, the concern was that Aussie kids were wearing baggy jeans and Starter caps, and rapping in American accents. So yes, you do export your idiocy. You also export your positive qualities as well.

There are also a raft of cultural factors which independently impact on various countries in different ways, but which I believe are impacting. Social media is an example of this. We have some of the same factors in terms of short attention spans and loud messaging capturing the conversation that you guys do, so that would be more of a 'first to succumb' situation. And, seriously, not even first. Just most obvious.

Finally, systemic and cultural variances mean things land differently.
Couple of examples...
1 BLM was a thing here too. But our indigenous population (which is our most coherent black population) is a smaller segment of the population than the African American population is of yours (roughly 3% vs 12%). For better or worse that changes the conversation.
2 Our electoral system better allows for independent and third party participation in meaningful ways, which I think provides some guard against the worst sorts of polarisation you guys suffer from. At least, I hope it does!!
 
Some of the changes are just odd.

Changing the sex of Mr Fox's cubs

Animals can't be described using colours link pink or black

Changing a witch from a cashier to a "top scientist" (the worst as kids actually meet cashiers whereas they don't meet "top scientists" so it pointlessly reduces the fun for kids just to appease the petty feelings of some adult ideologues)

Others are just ugly edits or crude insertions.

In The Witches, a paragraph explaining that witches are bald beneath their wigs ends with the new line: “There are plenty of other reasons why women might wear wigs and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.”


Letting some committee of frustrated hacks edit these is like getting the woman who painted the monkey Christ to update the Mona Lisa.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
...contrary to his intention. I grew up on Dahl's books, but I'll admit that there are plenty of other books I grew up with that I struggle with these days due to their out of date stories. Dahl, however, was pretty deliberately trying to be somewhat edgy. He deliberately used provocative words to capture his audience. So I just wonder whether we are missing the point a little in editing his works to make it 'more acceptable'.

Revolting Rhymes was not designed to be acceptable, even in the language of it's day.

Anyway, interested in thoughts across the spectrum.

Critics reject changes to Roald Dahl books as censorship - ABC News (go.com)
Infuriating and shameful. Echoes of 1984 and how the Ministry of Truth would redact old books and articles to control perception.
 
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