Cheerleading is a sport!

[Revoltingest]

It is. Maybe it's because I've actually done it, but the claims that it's "fake" or "not a sport" tend to get to me, and make me think of Lita, Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Dynamite Kid, Mick Foley, Harley Race, Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, Sabu, RVD, and so on. And then there are the ones like the Steiner Brothers, Iron Sheik, Kurt Angle, and others who were Grecko-Roman wrestlers before being pro-wrestlers. And then the huge list of them that played college football and some even in the NFL before pro-wrestling.
There is also a great deal of theatrics behind it, but that shouldn't be used as a point to downplay the athleticism and physical demands of pro-wrestling. I would imagine that even some competitive cheerleaders may even be potentially good fits for the business given they have athletic and acrobatic talent and one can only assume they are used to taking a fall - just put on a different gimmick and they'd probably be in a better position that most people who enroll in a wrestling school.

Just for fun, I'll add Brock Lesnar, Mark Henry, & Chyna (RIP).

 

[Augustus]

Tell that to all the wrestlers who have been injured, some severely and killed, who are very athletically gifted, and who are, overwhelmingly, very fit physically.

As I said, they are very skilled athletes, but so are ballerinas who also go through severe physical pain and even risk bad injury, as do circus performers and the likes. Cirque du Soleil isn't a sport after all.

It's not a slight on them, but it is not a sport as it is scripted so is not truly competitive. If they are genuinely wrestling in an unscripted and truly competitive manner then it is a sport. If not, it is no different to ballet (a highly skilled entertainment that requires supreme dedication, fitness, training and execution)

I have more respect for competitive cheerleaders than the football team. One requires athletic talent, the one is running and catching ball.

Given what you just said, and all of the injured, disabled and dead American football players, that's a mighty double standard.

It's hardly just running and catching a ball, they are generally freakish athletes as it is probably the most difficult sport in the world to play professionally due to the tiny number of professional teams.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Given what you just said, and all of the injured, disabled and dead American football players, that's a mighty double standard.

Football doesn't take that much talent. Kids in back yards around America and many other countries play it. They may not have the experience or training to do it as well as professional football players, but it is literally a game that is so simple and easy that even a child can do it. With things like gymnastics (which is essentially the "base" of competitive cheer leading), not everyone can do the flips, spins, cart wheels, and other feats of acrobatic prowess. Football players get injured for pretty much for the same reason that any contact sport (including pro wrestling) has, and that is the participants abuse their bodies.

It's hardly just running and catching a ball, they are generally freakish athletes as it is probably the most difficult sport in the world to play professionally due to the tiny number of professional teams.

Just because there are few professional teams doesn't make it difficult to play, but difficult to get into. And football is not nearly as difficult as pretty much any form of wrestling, such as submission or Grecko-Roman. And things such as ballet and gymnastics require far more talent than those and are far more difficult because they require speed, balance, and very strong bodies (ever notice they tend to be built like barns?).

Cirque du Soleil isn't a sport after all.

It's not, but it's an event that takes place in a different environment, for different reasons, and is an entirely different genre of entertainment.

 

[Sunstone]

I can see cheer leading as a sport.

 

[Augustus]

Football doesn't take that much talent. Kids in back yards around America and many other countries play it. They may not have the experience or training to do it as well as professional football players, but it is literally a game that is so simple and easy that even a child can do it. With things like gymnastics (which is essentially the "base" of competitive cheer leading), not everyone can do the flips, spins, cart wheels, and other feats of acrobatic prowess. Football players get injured for pretty much for the same reason that any contact sport (including pro wrestling) has, and that is the participants abuse their bodies.

Just because there are few professional teams doesn't make it difficult to play, but difficult to get into. And football is not nearly as difficult as pretty much any form of wrestling, such as submission or Grecko-Roman. And things such as ballet and gymnastics require far more talent than those and are far more difficult because they require speed, balance, and very strong bodies (ever notice they tend to be built like barns?).

We can agree to disagree on whether or not choreographed and scripted acting with a predetermined outcome counts as a sport. I consider ballet dancers phenomenal athletes also, so it isn't a disrespect to their art form when I don't consider WWE to be sport. I don't consider chess a sport either, and have utmost respect for top players. Ultimately just comes down to personal definition.

I disagree that certain sports are 'less difficult' or take less talent though. Children can do almost any sport with a few exceptions, the point is how good they are at it. Children do gymnastics, they just do more basic moves like cartwheels and forward rolls, this is simply a lower skill version of elite gymnastics. With American football they are running and catching, but it is the speed and execution that they do which is the equivalent of the fancy tumbles and poses of a gymnast. We can run when we are 2 years old, it makes no sense to consider that this means it is any less skillful to run 9.6 seconds in the 100m.

With any popular sport or activity, the skill level to compete at the top is similar. Some have a wider range of skills, others have a single skill that is done to perfection, but when x number of people practice for x number of hours, they will reach a similar level of ability in any sport they choose. The difficulty is not in the range of tasks needed to be performed, but the skill needed to perfect them to an elite level.

I think it is simply incorrect to say the elite competitors in one sport/activity are more skilled that elite competitors in another activity (although, to be fair, I know quite a few people who disagree with me on this )

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I was a cheerleader WAY back in the day. I also danced competitively and now own a dance studio that regularly competes in dance. I also played softball, soccer, and track back in the day, too, so I'm aware of what athletes train in and the mindset of competition elsewhere.

There's a lot of woeful ignorance when it comes to competitive cheer and competitive dance, and it's partially based on stereotypes that reinforce cheerleaders are more window dressing than anything. The development of cheer into a sport has been mostly the recognition of injury risk, skill execution, and follows the same metrics of scoring as figure skating and gymnastics.

I have taught dance (for example) for the purpose of artistic exploration of themes for a captive audience and also for the purpose of scoring highly for a panel of judges. I've worked as a competitive dance coach and as a judge for regional and state competitions. You know, there's ignorant babbling from the purists and from the prejudiced. I've found that there's only so much we can do with educating people because when it comes to something so wild and intense as this, everyone's got an opinion that tries to box it in something they can rationalize.

In the end, you do you, boo.

 

[Draka]

I'm more likely to lean towards competitive physical activity as defining "sport". Doing something recreational that is normally a "sport" I think may be different. Because if physical activity is the defining factor to what a "sport" is then playing the drums is a "sport", making dinner is a "sport", and so on. Is skiing a "sport" when you are doing it alone for the enjoyment of it or is it a hobby or recreational activity? Is playing the drums in a band for entertainment a "sport" or would that require a drum competition? And if there was a competition does that make drumming a "sport"? I actually find the subject interesting. What defines a "sport"?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm more likely to lean towards competitive physical activity as defining "sport". Doing something recreational that is normally a "sport" I think may be different. Because if physical activity is the defining factor to what a "sport" is then playing the drums is a "sport", making dinner is a "sport", and so on. Is skiing a "sport" when you are doing it alone for the enjoyment of it or is it a hobby or recreational activity? Is playing the drums in a band for entertainment a "sport" or would that require a drum competition? And if there was a competition does that make drumming a "sport"? I actually find the subject interesting. What defines a "sport"?

I'd say it's scoring and ranking.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm more likely to lean towards competitive physical activity as defining "sport". Doing something recreational that is normally a "sport" I think may be different. Because if physical activity is the defining factor to what a "sport" is then playing the drums is a "sport", making dinner is a "sport", and so on. Is skiing a "sport" when you are doing it alone for the enjoyment of it or is it a hobby or recreational activity? Is playing the drums in a band for entertainment a "sport" or would that require a drum competition? And if there was a competition does that make drumming a "sport"? I actually find the subject interesting. What defines a "sport"?

Drum playing.....not a sport since the primary purpose is music (despite the fact that some forms are vigorous physical work). \
Physical activity is merely incidental.

Skiing....definitely a sport, since it's vigorous recreational physical activity.
But it's still not as fun as snowboarding.
(This is not merely my opinion.....it's an objective fact!)

Competition alone doesn't make a "sport", other wise spelling bees would be considered such.

So cheerleading is a sport some times (eg, when it's more like competitive gymnastics) & not others (me in a short kilt yelling "Go Aberdeen!").

For your viewing enjoyment....

 

[Draka]

Ah, but a common theme in definitions of "sport" is that it is for entertainment purposes. Competition for entertainment purposes. If there is a drumming competition, and drumming is a physical activity, and it provides entertainment, then wouldn't it qualify as a "sport"?

On the flipside, swimming is considered an Olympic sport, it is competitive in schools as well. Am I still considered to be participating in a sport if I jumped in a lake and doggie paddle for a bit? If I'm just leisurely swimming in a pool because, hey, it's a hot day and it feels nice, am I participating in a sport or a recreational activity? No one is keeping score, no one is competing against me, so is it a sport?

If you are snowboarding to compete for scores against others then isn't that different then doing it for yourself for fun?

If you have a basketball hoop on your garage and you grab up the ball and toss it through the hoop on your way to take out the trash, did you just participate in a sport? Or were you merely having a bit of fun in passing?

 

[Draka]

I'd say it's scoring and ranking.

Yeah, I'd say many things could both be and not be "sport" at the same time. Depends on the circumstances. Dancing can be a sport when one trains and competes but it is recreational activity when just dancing around your kitchen to the radio for fun.

 

[Sunstone]

I have long staunchly maintained it's not a real sport unless there's a locker room involved with a bit of grab-***. <------- Sunstone is clueless.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ah, but a common theme in definitions of "sport" is that it is for entertainment purposes. Competition for entertainment purposes. If there is a drumming competition, and drumming is a physical activity, and it provides entertainment, then wouldn't it qualify as a "sport"?

Tis obvious to all (almost all) that there is a very nebulous line between "sport" & "non-sport".
If any activity which has competition, entertainment, & a physical activity is a "sport", then I find this overly broad because it would include.....
- Tractor pulls
- Dog shows
- Board games like go....& even chess.
With those things, the human's physical activity is a tertiary component.

On the flipside, swimming is considered an Olympic sport, it is competitive in schools as well. Am I still considered to be participating in a sport if I jumped in a lake and doggie paddle for a bit? If I'm just leisurely swimming in a pool because, hey, it's a hot day and it feels nice, am I participating in a sport or a recreational activity? No one is keeping score, no one is competing against me, so is it a sport?

The level of activity is a factor.
Some swimming is definitely a sport.
Other swimming is just cooling off on a hot day. You young whippersnappers call this "chill'n", eh?

If you are snowboarding to compete for scores against others then isn't that different then doing it for yourself for fun?

It's a sport either way.
Competition isn't a required element.

If you have a basketball hoop on your garage and you grab up the ball and toss it through the hoop on your way to take out the trash, did you just participate in a sport? Or were you merely having a bit of fun in passing?

I say the latter.

A hard & fast rule in applying an imprecise word to a myriad of activities is bound to fail.
Such is true for others too, eg, pornography, art, game.
Tis more useful to grok the intent behind the word.
By the definition you proffer (Old Scratch's advocate, I presume), if you asked my what sports I've done/do, I'd have to say....
"The only sport I play is go."
"But I do have some hobbies, eg, weightlifting, hiking, snowboarding, bicycling."

 

[Draka]

Furthermore, if someone could explain how hunting is a "sport" that would be fantastic.

 

[Revoltingest]

Furthermore, if someone could explain how hunting is a "sport" that would be fantastic.

As soon as I figure out how fishing is a sport, I'll let you know.
These are in the fringe area.

Btw, rhythmic gymnastics troubles me.
But I'll allow it to be a sport.
(I'm doing a lot of allowing today.)

 

[Draka]

Tis obvious to all (almost all) that there is a very nebulous line between "sport" & "non-sport".
If any activity which has competition, entertainment, & a physical activity is a "sport", then I find this overly broad because it would include.....
- Tractor pulls
- Dog shows
- Board games like go....& even chess.
With those things, the human's physical activity is a tertiary component.

The level of activity is a factor.
Some swimming is definitely a sport.
Other swimming is just cooling off on a hot day. You young whippersnappers call this "chill'n", eh?

It's a sport either way.
Competition isn't a required element.

I say the latter.

Hard & fast rules in applying an imprecise word to a myriad of activities are bound to fail.
Such is true for others too, eg, pornography, art.
Tis more useful to grok the intent behind the word.
By the definition you proffer (Old Scratch's advocate, I presume), if you asked my what sports I've done/do, I'd have to say....
"The only sport I play is go."
"But I do have some hobbies, eg, weightlifting, hiking, snowboarding, bicycling."

Most definitions of sport speak of physical activity and exertion. A dog show or a board game would not qualify. And if shooting hoops for fun in your driveway isn't a sport then why would snowboarding for fun be? It would fall under the category of hobby wouldn't it?

If you train as a runner and run marathons and races then running, for you, would be a sport. If you run merely because you find it fun, or even for regular exercise for health purposes then running, for you, would be a hobby.

If one dances because they simply like to dance and find it fun then dancing is a hobby or recreational activity, if one dances for competition or the entertainment of others then it is a sport to them.

I think it would depend on the competitive nature and entertainment of others as to whether something is sport.

 

[Draka]

As soon as I figure out how fishing is a sport, I'll let you know.
These are in the fringe area.

Btw, rhythmic gymnastics troubles me.
But I'll allow it to be a sport.
(I'm doing a lot of allowing today.)

Almost threw fishing in there as well but thought hunting was a big enough alone. Never have understood either being "sport".

 

[Revoltingest]

Most definitions of sport speak of physical activity and exertion. A dog show or a board game would not qualify. And if shooting hoops for fun in your driveway isn't a sport then why would snowboarding for fun be? It would fall under the category of hobby wouldn't it?

But this fails too.
Bowling comes to mind....exertion?
There's a compelling reason The Dude bowls.
(Hint: It's not for exercise.)

Even worse, I once competed in target shooting (smallbore rifle).
This involves physical skill, but is the opposite of exertion.
Major goals are to be completely relaxed, slow down one's pulse, & then shoot between heartbeats.
Even one's heart pumping is too much movement! So I used to get mine down to around 40 bpm.
I even learned to block out input from my left eye, paying attention only my dominant eye.
(Unlike in movies, one doesn't shut the other eye.....that's too fatiguing. Really!
But it's a sport.
I even lettered in it (captain of high school team).
But even I knew better than to put it on one of those silly jackets.
(Being on the rifle team was not something you want to advertise.....uber ultra hyper nerdy.)

This illustrates how common usage of the term, "sport", conflicts with the definition you advocate.

If you train as a runner and run marathons and races then running, for you, would be a sport. If you run merely because you find it fun, or even for regular exercise for health purposes then running, for you, would be a hobby.

"Hobby" seems very much less an accurate term.

If one dances because they simply like to dance and find it fun then dancing is a hobby or recreational activity, if one dances for competition or the entertainment of others then it is a sport to them.

So dancing is always a "sport", but running without competition is a "hobby".
I think you're pull'n me leg. (But hands off the kilt, toots!)

I think it would depend on the competitive nature and entertainment of others as to whether something is sport.

Those are factors.

 

[Draka]

But this fails too.
Bowling comes to mind....exertion?
There's a compelling reason The Dude bowls.
(Hint: It's not for exercise.)

Even worse, I once competed in target shooting (smallbore rifle).
This involves physical skill, but is the opposite of exertion.
Major goals are to be completely relaxed, slow down one's pulse, & then shoot between heartbeats.
Even one's heart pumping is too much movement! So I used to get mine down to around 40 bpm.
I even learned to block out input from my left eye, paying attention only my dominant eye.
(Unlike in movies, one doesn't shut the other eye.....that's too fatiguing. Really!
But it's a sport.
I even lettered in it (captain of high school team).
But even I knew better than to put it on one of those silly jackets.
(Being on the rifle team was not something you want to advertise.....uber ultra hyper nerdy.)

You don't find that kind of control to be an exertion? It is a physical skill is it not? There is competition isn't there? So I see how that could be a sport.

This illustrates how common usage of the term, "sport", conflicts with the definition you advocate.

"Hobby" seems very much less an accurate term.

Why? Why would "hobby" not be an accurate term? A recreational activity that you do on a regular basis for your personal entertainment, that is a hobby. Whether that hobby is knitting or playing catch in the backyard or snowboarding, it is still a hobby isn't it?

So dancing is always a "sport", but running without competition is a "hobby".
I think you're pull'n me leg. (But hands off the kilt, toots!)

I didn't say it was always a sport. Read again. I said if you are doing it just for fun, for the mere enjoyment of it alone, then dancing is a hobby. If one dances in competitions for the entertainment of others then it is sport. Where did you get that dancing is always a sport from that?

Those are factors.

The main defining factors.

Let me ask you, does it somehow lessen snowboarding for you for it to be considered a hobby rather than a sport for you?

 

[Revoltingest]

You don't find that kind of control to be an exertion? It is a physical skill is it not? There is competition isn't there? So I see how that could be a sport.

I'd say it's a "sport", albeit not the most athletic type.

Why? Why would "hobby" not be an accurate term?

Because that appears to be an unconventional application of the term, "hobby".
Our local track club is a tenant of mine.
I'll have to ask them whether they think running is a "sport" or a "hobby".
Wanna bet?
Winner gets a home cooked meal of muktuk & poutine from @Wirey.

A recreational activity that you do on a regular basis for your personal entertainment, that is a hobby. Whether that hobby is knitting or playing catch in the backyard or snowboarding, it is still a hobby isn't it?

Some are more of a "hobby", while others are more of a "sport".

I didn't say it was always a sport. Read again.

I misread it.

Let me ask you, does it somehow lessen snowboarding for you for it to be considered a hobby rather than a sport for you?

It doesn't lessen anything.
It just seems wrong (going by common usage of the word) to call it a "hobby".

Consider common usage.....
Go to a local "hobby shop", & you'll find model airplanes, craft tools, glue, etc.
There are no bikes, snowboards, running shoes, etc.

Go to a local Play It Again Sports, & you'll find snowboards, skis, skates, bikes, golf clubs, barbells, roller blades, hockey sticks. They're things of a kind.
They don't have dance shoes, stamp albums, knitting needles.