painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I'd be very intrested to know the Lakota view on this.
They are very protective (and rightfully so) of thier faith.
wa:do
They are very protective (and rightfully so) of thier faith.
wa:do
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Cherokee Prophecy
- Thread starter EnhancedSpirit
- Start date
So when the Quran says also, we will sit on couches and have honey, ginger with cannabis tea...
what are the smoke lodges for?....
i thought it was like a beard white man (white dear also) will show and we all have a peace party?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
smoke lodges? Beard white man? Peace party?
First off no one says "Peace party" and no group has a white man (with or without a beard) saving them. You may be mistaking the story of the White Buffalo, which is often misused as a "messiah" story. (White Buffalo Woman said she would return to the people, but she is a Native American and a Woman.)
Do you mean sweat lodge? I've never heard of a "smoke lodge". Sweat lodges are used for purification by many nations.
Smoke (ie smudge, tobacco) is used to carry prayers to creator and for purification.
wa:do
First off no one says "Peace party" and no group has a white man (with or without a beard) saving them. You may be mistaking the story of the White Buffalo, which is often misused as a "messiah" story. (White Buffalo Woman said she would return to the people, but she is a Native American and a Woman.)
Do you mean sweat lodge? I've never heard of a "smoke lodge". Sweat lodges are used for purification by many nations.
Smoke (ie smudge, tobacco) is used to carry prayers to creator and for purification.
wa:do
Darkwater
Well-Known Member
A deep dark numbered vault in a Swiss Bank?
Nice concept.
Seeing as the vast part of Africa has been drought ridden for years,it is difficult to imagine their having special knowledge of water....nie tea from Kenya,mind you.
The Hopi sound really cool,there is no word,phrase or direct reference to *time* in their language,which maybe makes them unique?
"Culture is another variable contributing to the perception of time. Anthropologist Benjamin Lee Whorf reported after studying the Hopi cultures that: " the Hopi language is seen to contain no words, grammatical forms, construction or expressions or that refer directly to what we call time, or to past, present, or future "[53]
An interesting fact is that in Hindi (official language of India), there is only one word kal for both yesterday and tomorrow, the meaning determined by the context."
Wheels are pretty Universal too.
[edit] Linear and cyclical time
See also: Time Cycles and Wheel of time In general, the Judaeo-Christian concept, based on the Bible, is that time is linear, with a beginning, the act of creation by God. The Christian view assumes also an end, the eschaton, expected to happen when Christ returns to earth in the Second Coming to judge the living and the dead. This will be the consummation of the world and time. St Augustine's City of God was the first developed application of this concept to world history. The Christian view is that God is uncreated and eternal so that He and the supernatural world are outside time and exist in eternity. Christian Science defines time as "error" or illusion.
Ancient cultures such as Incan, Mayan, Hopi, and other Native American Tribes, plus the Babylonian, Ancient Greek, Hindu, Buddhist, Jainist, and others have a concept of a wheel of time, that regards time as cyclical and quantic consisting of repeating ages that happen to every being of the Universe between birth and extinction.
from this link Time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I am a big fan of Chief Sitting Bull,his ghost dance shirt made a great impression upon me when it was on display at Glasgow Art Galleries.
Water is fascinating & has many *unique* properties.
Nice concept.
Seeing as the vast part of Africa has been drought ridden for years,it is difficult to imagine their having special knowledge of water....nie tea from Kenya,mind you.
The Hopi sound really cool,there is no word,phrase or direct reference to *time* in their language,which maybe makes them unique?
"Culture is another variable contributing to the perception of time. Anthropologist Benjamin Lee Whorf reported after studying the Hopi cultures that: " the Hopi language is seen to contain no words, grammatical forms, construction or expressions or that refer directly to what we call time, or to past, present, or future "[53]
An interesting fact is that in Hindi (official language of India), there is only one word kal for both yesterday and tomorrow, the meaning determined by the context."
Wheels are pretty Universal too.
[edit] Linear and cyclical time
See also: Time Cycles and Wheel of time In general, the Judaeo-Christian concept, based on the Bible, is that time is linear, with a beginning, the act of creation by God. The Christian view assumes also an end, the eschaton, expected to happen when Christ returns to earth in the Second Coming to judge the living and the dead. This will be the consummation of the world and time. St Augustine's City of God was the first developed application of this concept to world history. The Christian view is that God is uncreated and eternal so that He and the supernatural world are outside time and exist in eternity. Christian Science defines time as "error" or illusion.
Ancient cultures such as Incan, Mayan, Hopi, and other Native American Tribes, plus the Babylonian, Ancient Greek, Hindu, Buddhist, Jainist, and others have a concept of a wheel of time, that regards time as cyclical and quantic consisting of repeating ages that happen to every being of the Universe between birth and extinction.
from this link Time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I am a big fan of Chief Sitting Bull,his ghost dance shirt made a great impression upon me when it was on display at Glasgow Art Galleries.
Water is fascinating & has many *unique* properties.
Last edited:
Heneni
Miss Independent
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
*sigh*
The Hopi do infact have time concepts in their language. They have past tense and future tense and years and so on. Whorf was a typical 50's man with an idea to sell.
some examples from: Setting the Record Straight: Are Native American Languages Primitive?
There are whole books on the subject:
Hopi Time: A Linguistic Analysis of ... - Google Book Search
Its time to stop spreading nonsense about First Nations peoples.
wa:do
The Hopi do infact have time concepts in their language. They have past tense and future tense and years and so on. Whorf was a typical 50's man with an idea to sell.
some examples from: Setting the Record Straight: Are Native American Languages Primitive?
There are whole books on the subject:
Hopi Time: A Linguistic Analysis of ... - Google Book Search
Its time to stop spreading nonsense about First Nations peoples.
wa:do
Darkwater
Well-Known Member
A: Sure. The three languages that seem to suffer from this myth the most are Algonquin (because a New Age guru claimed that the Algonquins have no word for time), Hopi (because a linguist in the 1950's claimed that the Hopis had no words for the passing of time), and Lakota Sioux (because a missionary in the 19th century claimed that the Lakotas couldn't conceptualize time passing).
The moral here is that New Age authors, missionaries, and even linguists don't necessarily know how to have a basic conversation in a language before they start talking about it.
You expect me to agree with this?
Hopi aasu!
What is Hopi for "see you in the pub at 5.30 pm"?
The moral here is that New Age authors, missionaries, and even linguists don't necessarily know how to have a basic conversation in a language before they start talking about it.
You expect me to agree with this?
Hopi aasu!
What is Hopi for "see you in the pub at 5.30 pm"?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
No I don't expect you to believe it... I know you will probably ignore it.
And I'm not a Hopi speaker... but I trust them to let me know that they understand time.
wa:do
And I'm not a Hopi speaker... but I trust them to let me know that they understand time.
wa:do
Darkwater
Well-Known Member
Of course I believe you.....If I were a native I would probably want nothing to do with incomer's either,so avoid meeting them.Painted Wolf I know that you act with good intentions & with the best will in the world & that you are a straight arrow,very credible.
Anyway,to master the 4 tablet you must master the 5th element,which is not mentioned by the cherokee,for some reason.
Namaste
Andy
Anyway,to master the 4 tablet you must master the 5th element,which is not mentioned by the cherokee,for some reason.
Namaste
Andy
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
5th element? Good movie.
There are no tablets. This is a New Age myth that is trying to take advantage of the crazy ideas that people have about the First Nations.
wa:do
There are no tablets. This is a New Age myth that is trying to take advantage of the crazy ideas that people have about the First Nations.
wa:do
Darkwater
Well-Known Member
You are contadicting yourself here.....there are over 200 sperate American Indian Tribes,the Sioux(who have previously exhibited great magick) tell you nothing & you don't trust the Shawnee either........
Trust No-one!
1st rule of the street I grew up on.with some colourful expletive variations of the same message.
Trust No-one!
1st rule of the street I grew up on.with some colourful expletive variations of the same message.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Great "magick"? We don't do "magick".
New Age woo again.
wa:do
New Age woo again.
wa:do
Darkwater
Well-Known Member
Have you ever seen Chief Sitting Bull's Ghostdance shirt?As a Scot I maybe have more in common with Siuox than you,Glasgow is well up on the Sioux Nation popularity chart.
Scot's also took the trail of tears(Cherokee) during the Highland clearances,these things stick with you for generations.
I am aware of how difficult it was for Tecumseh to unite the tribes,even 168 years after his prophecy kicked in.
You ever use a sweat lodge or ghostdance,do anything to be as one with your line.....seek them out,as it were?
I would hate for labels to stick in the way or cause confusion or barriers.
I've taken the tailfeather's out of a few hawks in my time.
Tecumseh is new age?Sitting Bull?Charlie twolegs?
Scot's also took the trail of tears(Cherokee) during the Highland clearances,these things stick with you for generations.
I am aware of how difficult it was for Tecumseh to unite the tribes,even 168 years after his prophecy kicked in.
You ever use a sweat lodge or ghostdance,do anything to be as one with your line.....seek them out,as it were?
I would hate for labels to stick in the way or cause confusion or barriers.
I've taken the tailfeather's out of a few hawks in my time.
Tecumseh is new age?Sitting Bull?Charlie twolegs?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Yes I've seen it. Didn't stop any bullets did it?
That was the purpose of a Ghost Dance Shirt you know. Making the user impervious to bullets and allowing them to kill all the white people.
The Ghost Dance Religion was based on killing all the white people and returning the Americas to the pre-Euro state.
I for one won't Ghost Dance... I don't want to see that sort of pointless slaughter. I may if I am invited Sun Dance and give my flesh for the people, but that is an invite only situation. Unless you go to one of the tourist trap mockeries.
As for Sweating... Cherokee tend to go to water for purification. Again, Sweat Lodges are by invite only and I would only enter into one with someone I trusted.
Again, unless you count the "Pay to pray" travisties that pass themselves off as genuine.
wa:do
That was the purpose of a Ghost Dance Shirt you know. Making the user impervious to bullets and allowing them to kill all the white people.
The Ghost Dance Religion was based on killing all the white people and returning the Americas to the pre-Euro state.
I for one won't Ghost Dance... I don't want to see that sort of pointless slaughter. I may if I am invited Sun Dance and give my flesh for the people, but that is an invite only situation. Unless you go to one of the tourist trap mockeries.
As for Sweating... Cherokee tend to go to water for purification. Again, Sweat Lodges are by invite only and I would only enter into one with someone I trusted.
Again, unless you count the "Pay to pray" travisties that pass themselves off as genuine.
wa:do