Why would he ask God for a reason? If he asks God then he doubts God and the whole game's a bogey. Abraham does not doubt God therefore he has no reason to ask him. With respect, your friends are not gods. If you have complete faith in a god then there is no reason to suppose that any request, however incomprehensible, would not be for the greater good and as such should be carried out. If you did not want to carry it out, fine, but then your faith would be lacking and your future path would not be following that god. I assume that suicide bombers see it the same way.
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Child Sacrafice
- Thread starter openyourmind
- Start date
Why would he ask God for a reason? If he asks God then he doubts God and the whole game's a bogey. Abraham does not doubt God therefore he has no reason to ask him. With respect, your friends are not gods. If you have complete faith in a god then there is no reason to suppose that any request, however incomprehensible, would not be for the greater good and as such should be carried out. If you did not want to carry it out, fine, but then your faith would be lacking and your future path would not be following that god. I assume that suicide bombers see it the same way.
Nadia Faiazova
Member
Hi! There is no way for God to ask someone to do what you mentioned here. His attitude toward child sacrifice is clear: "And they have built the high places of To′pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin′nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart."(Jeremiah 7:31).
blue8
Member
Please, let me cite Mark S. Smiths book "The Early History of God", page 171.
Jeremiah 7:31; 19:5, and 32:35 deny that mlk sacrifice was offered in Yahweh´s name; these denials may suggest that offering this sacrifice in Yahweh´s name occurred (cf. Lev. 18:21; 20:3; Genesis 22). Ezekiel 20:25-26 provides a theological rationale for Yahweh causing child sacrifice:
Moreover I gave them statues that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horryify them; I did that they might know that I am the Lord.
These passages indicate that in the seventh century child sacrifice was a Judean practice performed in the name of Yahweh. Isaiah 30:27-33 appears as the best evidence for the early practice of child sacrifice in Israel."
I´d like to hear your opinion and other comments about that.
Dezzie
Well-Known Member
No offense to the people of the land around me but... no. I would not kill my first born child. Actually, come to think about it... if God cursed me and the land I walk on, why don't I just live in seclusion until I die? Keep people away from me... there is always a way around harming others!
Play the system!
Koldo
Outstanding Member
No. Why would i obey an entity that appeared out of nowhere to ask me for such an absurd act?
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Heck no
Oneatatime
Huh?
Anyone who hears a voice in their head instructing them to kill their first child in order to avoid future reproductive successs and a curse on their land has mental health problems. If a person was going to act on those instruction and only stopped because the voice told them to then that person not only has mental health problems but poses a real risk to themselves and those around around them. In the UK this person would need to be sectioned under the mental health act and the child put into care.
The comparisons with war don't really work in my opinion because there are few instance where parents can be said to have offered their children up as sacrifices. The child soldiers in places like Africa are taken from their parents, conscription does not require the parents permission, and in the UK where a person needs their parents permission to join the armed forces before they are 18 the choice to join has been made by the person rather than their parent.
Jacksnyte
Reverend
Well, I presume you meant sacrifice. I would tell any entity that told me to sacrifice my child to go get forked!
not yet now
Member
one of the main things biblically
that the chosen race was to combat
was the children sacrifices
that was common to many religions of the time
and especially in the area that was the promised land
but indeed today in africa
there are religions that do children sacrifices....
as to abraham
my thinking is that
it was in some ways 2 fold
part of it was god showing that just because he didnt sacrifice children
like many other religions did
did not mean that he was not as devoted to god or gods as others were....
but also on a perhaps hidden level too
it was about that god the father
would offer his son as a sacrifice for the sins of humanity
so that humanity could follow his teaching
that there can be divine calling
when one is called to suffer and sacrifice for the sake of others
and in a way that is free from all false matyr ego complexes baggage....
so in this case one's child is one's creative self expression of devotion and compassion for all
does it ever mean that the world will persecute one
for teaching the truth it needs
but will only later recognize after the fact
in a way
somewhat related to how the apostles would only fully understand jesus and his calling
thru his being crucified and enabling thus the holy spirit
that then could teach all things
to those who are convicted of their sins and repent and accept the holy spirit
that the chosen race was to combat
was the children sacrifices
that was common to many religions of the time
and especially in the area that was the promised land
but indeed today in africa
there are religions that do children sacrifices....
as to abraham
my thinking is that
it was in some ways 2 fold
part of it was god showing that just because he didnt sacrifice children
like many other religions did
did not mean that he was not as devoted to god or gods as others were....
but also on a perhaps hidden level too
it was about that god the father
would offer his son as a sacrifice for the sins of humanity
so that humanity could follow his teaching
that there can be divine calling
when one is called to suffer and sacrifice for the sake of others
and in a way that is free from all false matyr ego complexes baggage....
so in this case one's child is one's creative self expression of devotion and compassion for all
does it ever mean that the world will persecute one
for teaching the truth it needs
but will only later recognize after the fact
in a way
somewhat related to how the apostles would only fully understand jesus and his calling
thru his being crucified and enabling thus the holy spirit
that then could teach all things
to those who are convicted of their sins and repent and accept the holy spirit
Jacksnyte
Reverend
Just curious, as I am involved in a couple of African based religious practices: what African religions practice child sacrifice? I know a large number of them practice kid sacrifice(as in a young goat), or the sacrifice of other animals.
not yet now
Member
this wouldnt post
coz i see it says this
The following errors occurred with your submission:
one religion involves a river goddess of the niger river...
might google up some on that
also an increase by witch doctor types
mainly as a way claimed to gain wealth
usually children bought on the black market
but sometimes one's own child
and this as i recall is not just west african regions
but i think ..into southern african countries too
coz i see it says this
The following errors occurred with your submission:
- You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 15 posts or more.
one religion involves a river goddess of the niger river...
might google up some on that
also an increase by witch doctor types
mainly as a way claimed to gain wealth
usually children bought on the black market
but sometimes one's own child
and this as i recall is not just west african regions
but i think ..into southern african countries too
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I just read this story as making a point in a very shocking way. It is an attention getter.
Jacksnyte
Reverend
this wouldnt post
coz i see it says this
The following errors occurred with your submission:SO I DELETED SOME THINGSAND MAYBE NOW IT WILL POST
- You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 15 posts or more.
one religion involves a river goddess of the niger river...
might google up some on that
also an increase by witch doctor types
mainly as a way claimed to gain wealth
usually children bought on the black market
but sometimes one's own child
and this as i recall is not just west african regions
but i think ..into southern african countries too
What is the source of this information? The use of the term "witchdoctor" leads me to think it might be a less than accurate, or at least extremely biased account.
No. The act is irrational and violent, with nothing linking the two events. Such a god would be unworthy of listening to.
More importantly, it would be strong evidence of insanity. It's important not to listen to violent voices in your head.
Mom who said she killed on God's orders acquitted - CNN
As a matter of fact, different people can comprehend the same situation very differently and very religiously (especially when you choose to hate God).
When all the surrounding races are practising child sacrifice in the middle east, God tested Abraham to see if he has enough faith or not. Abraham thinks that if all other races are faithful enough to sacrifce their own sons for the false gods, why can't he do the same to a true God he knows.
So he choose to sacrfice his son. Yet God stopped him to tell him that his purpose is to 1) test Abraham's faith, 2) to show him that God doesn't like child/human sacrifice (the Bible said so), 3) as a prophecy to show that God will choose to sacrifice His own Son for humans.
Last edited:
Evandr
Stripling Warrior
Abraham was willing to offer up Isaac yet Abraham is revered as a great prophet. You use the term "Murder" as if keeping a direct commandment to do something with one of God's children, which you do not understand the reasons for, is doing something wrong. Your question is designed in a wicked fashion because you do not want to learn anything and your question has no intrinsic value to any possible answer- you only want to try to make a believer in God feel guilty thinking you have offered up a question worth contemplating, comparing the omnipotence and wisdom of God with the concepts of life and death as it is understood by the weak mind of man.
All kinds of questions can be concocted to try to make one think of having to choose between the morals of man and the commandments of God. If God commands it then you would be wise to do it knowing that in the end the wisdom of God will prevail and keeping His commandments is now and always will be the best course of action.
Evandr
Stripling Warrior
Hey, while you're at it why not ask an even more horrific question designed to villainize God and make a follower a fool?
Here's one:
What if God told you to kidnap a bunch of pre-schoolers and then take them to your basement and skinned one alive while the others watched and then you could impale one on a red hot railroad spike, and then, hey, maybe he would ask you to do electric shock torcher to some of them - Would you do it? Huh? Come on, would ya?
Some questions are just too mindlessly stupid to be asked.
Jacksnyte
Reverend
I think the point was missed by this poster...
(by the way, it's torture, not "torcher")
averageJOE
zombie
Sooo...your answer to the question in the OP is "yes"?
Evandr
Stripling Warrior
Not so, the question shifted its focus in an attempt to vilify the faithful. In it Jacksnyte asked "If commanded" and then queried "would you murder". Murder does not fit, Abraham was not going to murder Isaac because the Lord would have had a hand in the whole event, there would have been no unrighteousness as the word "murder" implies.
Thank you for checking my spelling, slips do occure