Children and how to talk with them about matters of belief

[Thief]

and heaven forbid......a grown adult makes a promise....
only to break it

 

[Dawnofhope]

That is nice.

I take it that they generally do not (and did not) make a big deal out of divergence of creeds among the people they interact with?

I felt it important to both expose my children to Bible study classes and explain some of the differences between Christianity and the Baha’i Faith. My oldest son asked some good questions. The full differences and diversity within religious traditions would be best covered at a University, rather than at a primary school. In New Zealand, like Brazil, religion is avoided as a topic of general discussion.

 

[pearl]

As part of their catechism classes students often attend other religious services especially Jewish and compare what is held in common. Ultimately the case is made for God, Jesus and the Church. The important thing, if one is to reject any religion, that it is to rejected with a correct understanding of that religion.

 

[Nakosis]

Anyone here with specific ideas and willing to share?

I don't see diversity as a necessarily good thing. Diversity creates an opportunity for division.

One thing about religion is it brings a community together under a common set of ideas. In order to get folks to work together for common goals, you need a catalyst like religion.

I think it would be hard to encourage children to believe/accept whatever the family belief was if we told children that it was ok for others to believe something different. I'd suspect they'd start to question why then do they need to accept their families belief.

I didn't push any religion on my kids. They are very family/friend centric. They are not community orientated. Religion provides a way to extend one's concern out into the community. Religious diversity attacks religion. Ok, fine, I'm not a big fan of religion, but replace it with what to encourage an outreach into some form of community?

The more diversity the less community. It's not a problem now. People support family and friends, obey the laws. However I suspect when we need a community to come together on a much larger scale, there won't be a community.

I don't think there is a right answer. Because of that, I don't feel I should get involved in how parents go about instructing their children about belief. I don't think you can promote unity and diversity at the same time. Whether you want unity or diversity, the world will go on. I don't know what's better. Either way there are benefits and problems.

 

[metis]

I may have been unclear.

It was my response that was unclear because I meant that the information you provided was "disturbing" and not that you in any way took a "disturbing" position.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't see diversity as a necessarily good thing. Diversity creates an opportunity for division.

While that is certainly true, I don't know that there is a valid way of avoiding that risk. Other, of course, than attempting to convince people.

One thing about religion is it brings a community together under a common set of ideas. In order to get folks to work together for common goals, you need a catalyst like religion.

I think it would be hard to encourage children to believe/accept whatever the family belief was if we told children that it was ok for others to believe something different. I'd suspect they'd start to question why then do they need to accept their families belief.

Which can only be a good thing IMO... except to the extent that the family itself may be unable to deal with those questions.

I didn't push any religion on my kids. They are very family/friend centric. They are not community orientated. Religion provides a way to extend one's concern out into the community. Religious diversity attacks religion. Ok, fine, I'm not a big fan of religion, but replace it with what to encourage an outreach into some form of community?

The more diversity the less community. It's not a problem now. People support family and friends, obey the laws. However I suspect when we need a community to come together on a much larger scale, there won't be a community.

I don't think there is a right answer. Because of that, I don't feel I should get involved in how parents go about instructing their children about belief. I don't think you can promote unity and diversity at the same time. Whether you want unity or diversity, the world will go on. I don't know what's better. Either way there are benefits and problems.

It sure looks like a permanent dilemma to me.

 

[LuisDantas]

THAT part......they do not know

like the first time you ask them......would you like a peanut nutter and jelly sandwich?
and they have yet to have one made for them

how would they KNOW.?....what they want

ask a child....would you like to believe in God?

you are likely to here a question in return.....WHAT is god?

or if the child is altogether trusting..... a quick nod of the head
not really knowing what is about to happen

Do you really see that as a matter worth worrying about?

I definitely do not. Anyone who has a true need or vocation to believe in some version of the Abrahamic God will have no hardship whatsoever finding the opportunity to materialize that need.

and of course....the Easter Bunny
Santa Claus
the tooth fairy

and then later when THOSE ideas are broken
so too the ability to reason toward a Deity

If deity-beliefs are anywhere near that fragile, I don't think that they are worth protecting at all.

and heaven forbid......a grown adult makes a promise....
only to break it

The promise being...?

 

[sealchan]

I happen to live in a society that, to my continuous frustration, generally discourages open discussion of matters of religious belief, to the point of actually advising people not to make their own beliefs clear without specific invitation.

At the same time, it is also a largely Christian community, and one where it is not at all unusual to raise children from an early age into either Catholicism, Protestantism or a soft syncretism based on either. Those same parents very often expect or even encourage the school teachers to make their children aware of the diversity of creeds.

I wonder how exactly that works in practice. Given how difficult it is for so many adults (including myself) to quite wrap our heads around that diversity, I just don't know what is usual, expected or hoped for children to conclude when faced with what, to me, appear to be a direct conflict of claims. On the one hand, I don't expect or even want a Priest or Catholic Father to ask who among the presents are not believers before inviting the people present at a marriage to participate on the prayers.

Still, is treating the people present as "believers until otherwise evidenced" the best possible behavior? I would think not. I see no upside in encouraging children to expect a homogeneity of belief that they will eventually see challenged by other sources, hopefully soon. Adults are not supposed to hold serious malice towards each other simply for having diverging beliefs, and it seems to me that children may and should be taught that lesson from very early ages as well.

It is probably a fair bit easier when there is a healthy extended family available, as with so many other subject matters. There is a burden of consistence and harmony ever hanging over the parent's shoulders, and diversity of opinions (not only in matters of belief) tend therefore to be better introduced by slightly more distant relatives and loved ones. I happen to think that such is a necessary and important role, and I wonder how many people agree or disagree, and to which extent.

Anyone here with specific ideas and willing to share?

Religions are like biomes and languages...you grow up with primarily one. Once a child starts to realize that there are other biomes, other languages, other cultures then wonderful new worlds open up. That's where the next level journey begins where one can compare and contrast ones home culture to those of others and attempt to creatively integrate or crossover to something new.

It's a bit like operating systems...if a community settles into one then a whole host of compatibility issues are resolved. Still we need an open platform where any religion, as software, can run in a society as OS. But that is all part of the beauty and challenge of growing up into a big world and hopefully out of ones myopic beginnings.

 

[sealchan]

Like @Altfish religion is only discussed when the kids bring it up so it's not talked about much but when we do we have always encouraged them to make up their own minds.

A few years ago our son started going to sunday school and church. I think primarily because his friends were there. After about a year he began asking questions that his teacher was unable to answer to his satisfaction so, dissatisfied with religion he left. He now considers himself agnostic, a word we had to teach him when he said he doesn't know if god is real or not.

Both daughters have never had an need for relogion

Recently we have had a couple of catholic friends die. Attending the funerals was both sad and an education for them instigating a few chats on christian ritual.

What did you do regarding Xmas and Halloween?

 

[ChristineM]

What did you do regarding Xmas and Halloween?

We have tried various mid winter celebrations over the years, for the last 3 years we have observed saturnalia because the kids prefer it. Its really quite mercenary, they get more presents.

In france Halloween is not a big thing, an american family stared dressing up and trick or treating around 8 years ago. My kids have joined them for the last 3 years. There are now 4 or 5 groups of kids who do the rounds. Could grow to be a tradition here in time.

 

[metis]

In france Halloween is not a big thing, an american family stared dressing up and trick or treating around 8 years ago. My kids have joined them for the last 3 years.

Where abouts in France do you live? My French relatives on my mother's side came over from Honfleur on the Normandy coast. My father's side is also mostly French but we can't trace them back because they were here we believe sometime in the 1600's or even earlier.

 

[ChristineM]

Where abouts in France do you live? My French relatives on my mother's side came over from Honfleur on the Normandy coast. My father's side is also mostly French but we can't trace them back because they were here we believe sometime in the 1600's or even earlier.

Normandy is way up north.

The government has recently redrawn the regional maps so we are in what is now called the Nouvelle Aquitain.

People still call this area the Dordogne or more local the Perigord Noir.


Its south west, weve not been here that long, only 3 1/2 years.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

THAT part......they do not know

like the first time you ask them......would you like a peanut nutter and jelly sandwich?
and they have yet to have one made for them

how would they KNOW.?....what they want

ask a child....would you like to believe in God?

you are likely to here a question in return.....WHAT is god?

Me too! It's a great question.

 

[sealchan]

We have tried various mid winter celebrations over the years, for the last 3 years we have observed saturnalia because the kids prefer it. Its really quite mercenary, they get more presents.

In france Halloween is not a big thing, an american family stared dressing up and trick or treating around 8 years ago. My kids have joined them for the last 3 years. There are now 4 or 5 groups of kids who do the rounds. Could grow to be a tradition here in time.

This thread makes me think of my grandson. Halloween slightly beats out Christmas as a holiday for him.

He always is asking if such things are real. I find that the funnest answers involve encouraging his imagination and exploring what interests him. We have built leprechaun traps and other fantasy holiday related things.

He has a good mind for stories. So the exploration of spiritual stuff through fantasy, science fiction and other cultural practices is something I encourage rather than dismiss.

He, like many kids these days, seems to like the villains as much or more so than the heroes. I wonder to what extent simplistic attitudes towards good vs evil alienate the coming generations from religion.

Given that he is something of a fan of bigfoot I took him to a local community presentation by a popular bigfoot chaser. I think he enjoyed it (he is ten) although that format (a slideshow presentation) was aimed at an older crowd.

 

[ChristineM]

This thread makes me think of my grandson. Halloween slightly beats out Christmas as a holiday for him.

He always is asking if such things are real. I find that the funnest answers involve encouraging his imagination and exploring what interests him. We have built leprechaun traps and other fantasy holiday related things.

He has a good mind for stories. So the exploration of spiritual stuff through fantasy, science fiction and other cultural practices is something I encourage rather than dismiss.

He, like many kids these days, seems to like the villains as much or more so than the heroes. I wonder to what extent simplistic attitudes towards good vs evil alienate the coming generations from religion.

Given that he is something of a fan of bigfoot I took him to a local community presentation by a popular bigfoot chaser. I think he enjoyed it (he is ten) although that format (a slideshow presentation) was aimed at an older crowd.

Younger kids make these celebrations so enjoyable. It is sad for me that my eldest two are getting ot the stage of realising its not real. The youngest is still in awe.

 

[Jim]

@LuisDantas I've been thinking about this ever since I first saw it a day or two ago, and I finally have an idea. Build close friendships with people across the widest ideological divides, let your children see that, and talk to them about it.

 

[Jim]

Meanwhile, if you aren't already in close friendships with people across some of the widest ideological divides, you can start telling children stories, or giving them stories to read, about friendships like that. There might even be children's stories like that, about close friendships between atheists, followers of Dharma, and followers of religions, across the widest ideological divides between them, including across liberal/conservative divides within each major division. Maybe, especially across liberal/conservative divides.

 

[Jim]

Our daughter's best childhood friend was someone whose parents were admired members of a church where every sermon ending in painting everyone who doesn't believe in a Saturday sabbath as agents or dupes of satan.

 

[LuisDantas]

Meanwhile, if you aren't already in close friendships with people across some of the widest ideological divides, you can start telling children stories, or giving them stories to read, about friendships like that. There might even be children's stories like that, about close friendships between atheists, followers of Dharma, and followers of religions, across the widest ideological divides between them, including across liberal/conservative divides within each major division. Maybe, especially across liberal/conservative divides.

That is something of a permanent goal for anyone who values peace, IMO.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I happen to live in a society that, to my continuous frustration, generally discourages open discussion of matters of religious belief, to the point of actually advising people not to make their own beliefs clear without specific invitation.

It doesn't sound bad. Also I think you should not be expected to answer questions from strangers about your income, level of education, position, your marriage status, number of children and other personal items. In some places it is common to ask these things and more polite to lie than to refuse. I prefer rather than lying to not be asked by strangers.

At the same time, it is also a largely Christian community, and one where it is not at all unusual to raise children from an early age into either Catholicism, Protestantism or a soft syncretism based on either. Those same parents very often expect or even encourage the school teachers to make their children aware of the diversity of creeds.

I wonder how exactly that works in practice. Given how difficult it is for so many adults (including myself) to quite wrap our heads around that diversity, I just don't know what is usual, expected or hoped for children to conclude when faced with what, to me, appear to be a direct conflict of claims. On the one hand, I don't expect or even want a Priest or Catholic Father to ask who among the presents are not believers before inviting the people present at a marriage to participate on the prayers.

Do you feel that is hypocrisy? Its possible, but it could be that in order to avoid conflict people have stopped talking about it. It reminds me of how people tend to clump into tribes that don't talk to each other. Go to a diverse university campus, and you will see this clumping. You will see many individuals walking alone speaking with no one, and you will see small groups talking together. What you will not see are random strangers constantly talking to everyone they can.

Still, is treating the people present as "believers until otherwise evidenced" the best possible behavior? I would think not. I see no upside in encouraging children to expect a homogeneity of belief that they will eventually see challenged by other sources, hopefully soon. Adults are not supposed to hold serious malice towards each other simply for having diverging beliefs, and it seems to me that children may and should be taught that lesson from very early ages as well.

It is probably a fair bit easier when there is a healthy extended family available, as with so many other subject matters. There is a burden of consistence and harmony ever hanging over the parent's shoulders, and diversity of opinions (not only in matters of belief) tend therefore to be better introduced by slightly more distant relatives and loved ones. I happen to think that such is a necessary and important role, and I wonder how many people agree or disagree, and to which extent.

Anyone here with specific ideas and willing to share?

My extended family is separated by long distances. I barely know any cousins but have many. My approach has been to try to be honest with siblings, but I don't speak to them frequently about religion and not with cousins at all. I have not tried to educate their kids about my own opinions, either. Its not my place to interfere in the rearing of children that I barely have any responsibility for.