Chiristianity can be harmful to children.

[Shadow Wolf]

I guess I was fortunate to receive the love of Jesus as it is taught by Him. If any person acts contrary to Jesus law of love they are not Christian no matter they claim to be for a Christian will be known by how he reflects the teachings of Jesus in his deeds.

Are you going to take it upon yourself to judge them as non-Christian when Jesus himself forgave and gave his own Apostles another chance after another chance when they failed him?

 

[shmogie]

You certainly don't act like it.

You don´t know me, so your superfluous and doltish comments are totally irrelevant. Did uggy bulla inspire this nonsense ?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don´t know me, so your superfluous and doltish comments are totally irrelevant. Did uggy bulla inspire this nonsense ?

We know how you are on here, and here you don't emphasis the same love and compassion that Jesus did.

 

[icehorse]

1.the "Golden Rule".

2.charity for those in need.

3.limitations on war.

4.no human sacrifices.

5.to love one another.

Now it's your turn, so give us five "good moral teachings" that have no basis whatsoever in any religion and are in their entirety secular.

Well to some degree you've strawmanned me, and you've also changed the subject, AND I suspect these were conscious decisions on your part. So I'm sad that it seems you're no longer debating in good faith. That said:

1 - None of your top 5 originated with Christianity.
2 - Some of your top 5 are promoted in the bible!

More to the point, here are some bad moral teachings in the bible that apologists have to sidestep:

1 - Don't use the brain god gave you
2 - the creator of the universe is egocentric, petty, and cruel
3 - it's okay to be misogynistic
4 - it's okay to be homophobic
5 - it's okay to be racist
6 - it's okay to have slaves
7 - it's okay to scape goat
8 - it's sometimes okay to make human sacrifices
9 - freedom of religion is not good

That's just off the top of my head.

 

[shmogie]

We know how you are on here, and here you don't emphasis the same love and compassion that Jesus did.

No, love and compassion aren´t a keyboard on line operation.

Here, it is about concepts, like morality defined by the Bible, right and wrong, and defense of the faith.

I have stated many times that God is a God of love, who wants to save people from their sin, not in their sin.

Because I will not abandon the Christian standards, that seems to some to be an anti love, anti compassionate position.

Yet these people want to choose the standards that they reject, for their own personal reasons, and if I don´t agree with them, I am being ¨mean¨.

I have never once, and I never will judge a personś relationship with God, or the status of their soul. That is exclusively and totally between they and God. Flat out none of my business.

I will defend the standards and the Faith from all comers in the cyber world however.

Directness isn´t discompassionate, it gets right to the heart of an issue

 

[shmogie]

Well to some degree you've strawmanned me, and you've also changed the subject, AND I suspect these were conscious decisions on your part. So I'm sad that it seems you're no longer debating in good faith. That said:

1 - None of your top 5 originated with Christianity.
2 - Some of your top 5 are promoted in the bible!

More to the point, here are some bad moral teachings in the bible that apologists have to sidestep:

1 - Don't use the brain god gave you
2 - the creator of the universe is egocentric, petty, and cruel
3 - it's okay to be misogynistic
4 - it's okay to be homophobic
5 - it's okay to be racist
6 - it's okay to have slaves
7 - it's okay to scape goat
8 - it's sometimes okay to make human sacrifices
9 - freedom of religion is not good

That's just off the top of my head.

Horse, respectfully, you haven´t a clue as to what you are talking about. Every one of your 9 points is abysmally wrong.

Trite little refrains that those who know no better parrot around.

I am an apologist and I side step nothing, bring it

 

[Apologes]

Atheism implies that we are all meaningless byproducts of blind natural processes sitting on a mountain of lies we constructed for ourselves to make some sense of our absurd existence and are all doomed for extinction like most other species that ever came to be on our irrelevant little speck of dust in a tiny corner of a massive cold, dark and empty universe that will itself either boil or freeze to death leaving nothing but corpses of stars and chunks of barren rocks.

If you wanna traumatize a little kid, atheism is where you should go, not a religion that gives hope for eternal joy and provides meaning and morals with an actual basis beyond useful lies. Needless to say, the cross never did anything to me or anyone I know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, love and compassion aren´t a keyboard on line operation.

Actually they can be.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Atheism implies that we are all meaningless byproducts of blind natural processes sitting on a mountain of lies we constructed for ourselves to make some sense of our absurd existence and are all doomed for extinction like most other species that ever came to be on our irrelevant little speck of dust in a tiny corner of a massive cold, dark and empty universe that will itself either boil or freeze to death leaving nothing but corpses of stars and chunks of barren rocks.

What you described is specifically nihilism, not atheism. I can't say I've known many atheists who would say this is an absurd existence. And, of course, many religions point out that everything dies, everything ends. In fact, I've known many atheists who do not have the pessimistic doom-and-gloom world view you featured. Of course they acknowledge those things, that humans will one day extinct and that one day the universe too will end. But even the Bible teaches everyone will die and the world will end, and it adds in bits of most people being eternally tormented, gruesome wars and disasters to accompany the end, lots of death and bloodshed, and giving up so much of what life has to offer.

 

[shmogie]

Actually they can be.

I don´t see it that way. If people want to discuss, then we discuss. There have been folk in despair, when that is present, they aren´t interested in discussions, they need support, reassurance with no condemnation.

I have come across these folk in this forum over the years, and I do my best to encourage and strengthen them.

It happened a few days ago, but you probably didn´t see that exchange.

 

[metis]

Well to some degree you've strawmanned me, and you've also changed the subject, AND I suspect these were conscious decisions on your part. So I'm sad that it seems you're no longer debating in good faith

Well, if I did so I certainly didn't do it intentionally. As far as the rest of your post is concerned, it's pretty much intellectually nonsensical largely because at least some of those items you mention were also secular in many societies. And, just to be clear, no religion is a static entity.

Well, since you believe I somehow "strawmanned" you, I guess there's no where to go with this. Plus, I really have no desire to "debate" you anyway as I much prefer serious discussions.

 

[shmogie]

What you described is specifically nihilism, not atheism. I can't say I've known many atheists who would say this is an absurd existence. And, of course, many religions point out that everything dies, everything ends. In fact, I've known many atheists who do not have the pessimistic doom-and-gloom world view you featured. Of course they acknowledge those things, that humans will one day extinct and that one day the universe too will end. But even the Bible teaches everyone will die and the world will end, and it adds in bits of most people being eternally tormented, gruesome wars and disasters to accompany the end, lots of death and bloodshed, and giving up so much of what life has to offer.

The Bible does not teach that anyone will be tortured forever, that is just a confused interpretation.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Are you going to take it upon yourself to judge them as non-Christian when Jesus himself forgave and gave his own Apostles another chance after another chance when they failed him?

It depends on one’s definition of belief.

This is what I believe God’s definition of belief is according to God Himself yet I acknowledge that it is only for God to judge not us. But according to God’s Manifestation, belief without obedience means it is not true belief and of course I fully agree that only lip service is not true belief.

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.”

The Kitab-i-Aqdas
Bahá'u'lláh

 

[Apologes]

What you described is specifically nihilism, not atheism. I can't say I've known many atheists who would say this is an absurd existence.

Until your many atheists provide a sound framework in which atheism avoids these negative implications their opinions simply hold no weight.

But even the Bible teaches everyone will die and the world will end

Except death is just a gateway to eternity, not a termination of our existence and all that makes us who we are. As for the world, it will be "made new" as in better than before. Perfect to be exact. Not dead, empty and futile as atheism implies.

, and it adds in bits of most people being eternally tormented

Most evil people*

, gruesome wars and disasters to accompany the end, lots of death and bloodshed,

Nothing we haven't had our history riddled with (and our present as well) and certainly nothing that is better under atheism. Let's be real, humanity will die out if atheism is true and given how humans are, the end is almost certainly not going to be a graceful surrender wherein everyone hugs each other and braces for the incoming end. There'll be blood and brutality of the sort unseen. "If we're all gonna die tomorrow, we might as well do as we please."

A totally expected attitude and not at all unreasonable under an atheistic world.

and giving up so much of what life has to offer.

More like giving up minor goods (or rather appearances of good that are actually serious evils) for the true goodness that is God. You gotta make sacrifices if you want to achieve something truly worthwhile. Ask any champion in anything. The road to great goals is filled with sacrifices. Make them or give up the truly good things life can offer.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

How about explaining to them why they supposedly require saving in the first place?
Doesn't it bother you to have to tell your innocent cute children that they are actually rotten and broken and require "fixing" and that this "fixing" has been done by nailing a jew to the cross some 2000 years ago when ancient Rome was still a thing?

It would bother me immensly. I'm thankfull that I don't have to defend / explain such ridiculous things.

That approach won't work with Prestor, nor with any other LDS member here, because they don't believe in Original Sin. They're one of the few sizeable Christian denominations that don't.

 

[icehorse]

Well, if I did so I certainly didn't do it intentionally. As far as the rest of your post is concerned, it's pretty much intellectually nonsensical largely because at least some of those items you mention were also secular in many societies. And, just to be clear, no religion is a static entity.

Well, since you believe I somehow "strawmanned" you, I guess there's no where to go with this. Plus, I really have no desire to "debate" you anyway as I much prefer serious discussions.

If you prefer serious discussions, then stop strawmanning.

 

[MJFlores]

One thing ministers have to skip or spin is the idea that Christianity promotes scape-goating (in the form of sacrificing jesus). Scape-goating, when separated from Christianity, is usually viewed as morally reprehensible.

Maybe you are right.

But Christ was promised from the very beginning:
From the time of Adam Genesis 3:15
During the time of Moses Deuteronomy 18:15, [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+18:18&version=NIV']Deuteronomy 18:18[/URL]
During the time of Abraham Galatians 3:16;

Christ as a escape goat? Hebrews 9:15

But then again, Christ died according to the scriptures 1 Corinthians 15:3

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don´t see it that way.

Funny, because not even you actually believe that:

they need support, reassurance with no condemnation.

I do my best to encourage and strengthen them.

So, you say love and compassion aren't online functions, but then point out your actions that suggests otherwise.

The Bible does not teach that anyone will be tortured forever, that is just a confused interpretation.

According to Jesus, there is being tossed into a furnace, darkness and wailing of teeth, and eternal fire and punishment.

I acknowledge that it is only for God to judge not us.

Are you quite so sure of that:

belief without obedience means it is not true belief and of course I fully agree that only lip service is not true belief.

It seems to me you have given yourself wiggle room to judge, and you have shown yourself to utilize this wiggle room to judge others. Is it all futile anyways since it's widely acknowledged and accepted throughout Christianity that being Christian doesn't make one "sin proof?" After all, even the most firm believers continue to sin and disobey.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Until your many atheists provide a sound framework in which atheism avoids these negative implications their opinions simply hold no weight.

They tend to be pretty big into existentialism (or guided by existentialist principles) and find meaning and purpose in life.
Instead of assuming things about them why not ask them to find out how they themselves believe and feel?

Except death is just a gateway to eternity, not a termination of our existence and all that makes us who we are. As for the world, it will be "made new" as in better than before. Perfect to be exact. Not dead, empty and futile as atheism implies.

That is absolutely horrifying. To give up a life up fulfillment, meaning, and purpose all for hopes and wishes of what might come next. Why bother improving what we have now when it's dirt compared to what comes next? Why savor and enjoy this life to the fullest when the next one is better and lasts forever (a horribly dreadful thought of itself when you really think about it).
Instead of assuming things about them why not ask them to find out how they themselves believe and feel?

Most evil people*

No, it's clear that it will be most people, as most people have and will continue to die without having accepted Jesus as their savior.

Let's be real, humanity will die out if atheism is true

I doubt it. We have yet to see any wars or major conflicts in the name of atheism.

There'll be blood and brutality of the sort unseen. "If we're all gonna die tomorrow, we might as well do as we please."

That's a baseless assumption founded in ignorance. If you really need religion or an ancient book to tell you not to kill, steal, rape, and so on, you have a very seriously messed up and extremely damaged moral compass. All that argument does is reflect a possible lack of moral character of those who would think it. Bonobos, elephants, and dolphins don't even need them to function peacefully and cohesively as social groups (it goes for pretty much every social animal). If we are really better than the other animals, as if often claimed even among Christians, it is an utter insult to think we need such a crutch for good morality when "lesser creatures" themselves do not.

More like giving up minor goods (or rather appearances of good that are actually serious evils) for the true goodness that is God. You gotta make sacrifices if you want to achieve s
omething truly worthwhile. Ask any champion in anything. The road to great goals is filled with sacrifices. Make them or give up the truly good things life can offer.

Funny how those sacrifices you mention as an example are of worldly pleasures, self betterment, glory of self and group, and getting caught up in the worldly things that Jesus said you aren't supposed to be caught up in. And for the same reason a Hindu follows their religion, or a Muslim theirs, a Pagan their own, and so on and so forth. Y'all can't be right, and none of ya have anymore proof than the other.
It's also not good for kids to teach them it's correct just because, even when all evidence does not support such a conclusion, because it's a serious detriment to critical thinking skills.

 

[nPeace]

I've lived next to two sets of JW families for over 40 years now, and even though they're generally nice people, I have no interest whatsoever if buying into the cult they've belong to. Matter of fact, a few years ago one of them left the JW's because of scandal.

Cult? That's how you see them - a cult? What makes them a cult, in your view?

And over these years I had discussed various issues with the one couple, especially since the husband was an elder at their kingdom hall. If it's all fine & dandy for you to be with them, fine, but it ain't for me as I well know much of what their teach that's simply erroneous. On top of that, I simply cannot stand their "my way or the highway" approach whereas there's an institutional arrogance matched with quite a bit of dishonesty in how they tend to portray other denominations.

Okay. So you hate their teachings, and what they stand for.
Curious. Would you mind telling me what you like about them, that you think is lacking in mainstream "Christian" religion... if anything at all?

One of the JW's here, for example, repeatedly has said that Catholics worship the sun, and yet I showed here through multiple Catholic sources that this simply in not at all true and is actually forbidden under Catholic theology, and yet she kept coming back and repeating it over and over again.

Oh, you must mean, my sister Deeje. Did she explain why she said that?
From what I have seen, she did (here, and here.
However, I don't see where you explained anythi... Wait! What? Oh my. Well I do understand that you might not like that people say things you don't like, but that's some serious fuming there dude.

Spoiler

Um... Forgive me. Please, I can't hel...

So evidently, we all say things people don't like. We have had our share of insults. I mean, being called a cult, isn't like being called a comfort.

Saying something isn't true, without showing that it isn't, means nothing really, to someone giving evidence that it is true. Isn't that so?
So can you show that the images Deeje put up, and what she said, does not show that what she said about Catholic sun worship is true?
You haven't commented on those images she put up.

I am interested to hear your explanation though.
How do you explain these?

What is that all about?