Choices

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm sorry but that is errant nonsense, you can speak for yourself, but you don't get to tell others who see through the vapid nature of faith, that it leads to despair?

That last platitude is an utterly meaningless deepity.

There is literally nothing one cannot believe using the vapid bias of faith, it is therefore objectively useless in determining the validity of a belief.

That is again a toxic reply, why do you choose to approach the subject in that manner?

Faith is a valid choice we face in life and I fully understand why many now choose to have no faith, that is also a valid choice.

Regards Tony

 

[Altfish]

I see that is the true baptism, that of choice.

Regards Tony

Do you have choice at the age of 12?
I'd say no, you are too young.

 

[Sheldon]

That is not what this OP is about, I would appreciate that you do not choose to reply to this OP if that is all you can offer.

This a is a public debate forum, if all you want is an echo chamber to proselytise in, then maybe start a blog, or use one the forums meant for that?

Participation in a religion is a choice.

Belief isn't a choice, but it's influenced by our choices (e.g. what we choose to read or who we choose to associate with).

Indeed, and of course it is influenced by what criteria or standard we decide to set for belief. If this is a different standard for one or some beliefs than others then one is choosing to adopt a bias. Though of course submitting deeply held beliefs one has an emotional investment in to critical scrutiny is not an easy choice to make.

 

[Sheldon]

That is again a toxic reply, why do you choose to approach the subject in that manner?

You will have to be specific sorry, I was responding to a post that claimed my lack of faith could only lead to despair, I'd say that was toxic, as well being errant nonsense of course.

Faith is a valid choice we face in life

I disagree, since it seems there is literally nothing one could not believe using faith alone.

 

[Sheldon]

Do you have choice at the age of 12?
I'd say no, you are too young.

If only religions left it until children were 12, sadly that is not the case.

 

[ChristineM]

In most cases your faith is imposed on you at a very early age by your parents, family, friends even the country you live in.

The choice comes later when your you fan choise to change your faith, leave it behind or in most cases keep the status quo

 

[RestlessSoul]

There would be no faith without doubt, so it follows that we can choose to put doubt aside and have faith in something. For some of us, a life without faith, or transcendent belief, would be hollow and meaningless, a life half lived. So yes, many of us choose faith in a power greater than ourselves, over the notion that life has no purpose beyond the satisfaction of material desires which only leave us empty any way.

 

[Trailblazer]

This a is a public debate forum, if all you want is an echo chamber to proselytise in, then maybe start a blog, or use one the forums meant for that?

This a is a public debate forum, if all you want is an echo chamber to proselytise for atheism, then maybe start a blog, or use one the forums meant for that?

 

[Trailblazer]

If only religions left it until children were 12, sadly that is not the case.

It is not the case with most religions but it is the case with the Baha'i Faith, as one cannot choose to join the religion until the age of reason, which is considered to be age 15.

 

[idea]

Is a faith and all we do in that faith based in choices we have made?

Losing faith, seeing reality, was not a choice for me.

Once you know Santa is not real, you cannot go back.

 

[Nakosis]

From a Faitg perspective, it is said our highest capacity and the apex of knowledge is the recognition of God and Submission to God.

By whom? Seems a very limiting position on human capability. I understand that at this moment, we may not have all the answers you want but that doesn't mean we will never find them.

I suppose my faith, if you want to call it that, lies in seeing where we are and where we've come from. Pretty amazing, if you take the time to consider it. Faith in the future of humanity, since I don't have knowledge of the future.

So see the quandary, what you have offered about Faith becomes applicable to the Athiest stance.

So how do we find the balance so we do not have endless debate over how we build a united world?

Can people of faith and those with no faith agree on the virtues we need to implement as one people on one planet, is that possible?

Regards Tony

The quandary to me is, what's God got to do with it?

People want to place their faith in God. Ok, just don't see much need for it. You want balance but it is man who has to make all of the choices, do all of the work. God can sit this one out and I think we will still do fine. I suspect you and and can come to an agreement on what is good and beneficial to us, to the world at large.

IOW, I don't see your faith in a God or my lack of one as any kind of impediment. Do feel a faith in God is necessary for this? If so, I suspect this maybe the greater impediment.

 

[idea]

... it is man who has to make all of the choices, do all of the work..

Amen. Life has become much better for me now that I have become self-reliant rather than God-reliant. I found God does not answer prayers, that God does not reward those who attend church, that God does not protect loved ones, God does not do anything, and those who "will pray for you" are no help at all for anything.

Better to buck up, not count on any heavenly assistance, and put effort where it will actually do something. Now that I have left religious groups I am debt free, kids are doing well (safe, no longer being molested), I have more time to do what needs to be done, have advanced in my career and so have less stress.

Empowered = being self-reliant, and not leaning on heavenly arms that are of no support whatsoever.

Faith in yourself is much better than faith in God.

I now see those who have faith in God as those who are insecure about their own ability to handle things. I agree, there are things we do not handle well - but for me "God" does not help in those situations, and I am better off with the belief that if anything is going to change, it is all up to me ← motivation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

By whom? Seems a very limiting position on human capability. I understand that at this moment, we may not have all the answers you want but that doesn't mean we will never find them.

I suppose my faith, if you want to call it that, lies in seeing where we are and where we've come from. Pretty amazing, if you take the time to consider it. Faith in the future of humanity, since I don't have knowledge of the future.

I do not think I need to quote sources, but to quote part of what you offered re my faith and I can say;

My Faith lies in seeing where we are and where we've come from. Pretty amazing, if you take the time to consider it. Faith in the future of humanity, since we also have been given knowledge of the future.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Losing faith, seeing reality, was not a choice for me.

Once you know Santa is not real, you cannot go back.

I assume you are referring to God?
How did you find out that God is not real?.... just curious.

 

[Vinayaka]

In theory the choice of faith is your own choice. BUT so much depends on where you are born and which faith your parents practice.

If you are born in India you are most likely to be a Hindu, born in Indonesia a Muslim, born in USA a Christian

'Most likely' being the operative phrase. Lots of exceptions.

 

[SomeRandom]

.

I wonder if the many branches of Hindus have that ceremony where a child is accepted into the faith?

Regards Tony

Not that I’m aware of. Most Hindu kids usually just adopt the practices of their parents. Maybe some will go into another path. Like if their parents are Vaishnavs they might go Shakti. Basically adopt their own sect of choice. But there’s not like a religious rite of initiation.
That I know of, anyway

 

[Vinayaka]

Not that I’m aware of. Most Hindu kids usually just adopt the practices of their parents. Maybe some will go into another path. Like if their parents are Vaishnavs they might go Shakti. Basically adopt their own sect of choice. But there’s not like a religious rite of initiation.
That I know of, anyway

There is the namakarana samskara which is name-giving. There are also many dikshas, like initiation into a particular sampradaya, or a mantra. But you're right, this may not be part of village Hinduism. I think the namakarana is though, for most.

As to the OP's thought, I voted yes and no because it respects the views of both sides, that for some it wasn't a choice, and for others it was. Attempts to project your personal ideas onto humanity generally fail miserably. It's folly to believe all men think alike.

 

[Sheldon]

I assume you are referring to God?
How did you find out that God is not real?.... just curious.

Well if the god claim is being premised as an unfalsifiable concept, then I can't by definition falsify the idea. However like Santa Claus I'd need a valid reason to believe a deity existed, and since no one can offer a shred of objective evidence for that claim, I disbelieve it, same as I disbelieve Santa Claus is real.

 

[Nimos]

The purpose of this OP is to explore our Choice of Faith, is it a choice, is it not?

I have read in other OP's on RF where people say it was not a choice, that their Faith was a natural process that required no choices.

To an extent I agree, as I see God has created us all in the same image, with the same potential of Spirtual Virtue.

On the other hand I see we need education to find that potential and that if we go it alone thinking we do not have a choice, then it may be we miss many choices that are available. My guess is, as I am yet to do so, is that if I searched all the Holy Books, we would find the advice, that to embrace faith, one must make a choice between what was offered by God, over preference to ones own ways. I do know the Bible offers that as a choice to be 'Born Again' from the flesh to the spirit.

As a Baha'i there is clear guidance as to how God offers it is a choice, this is one such passage.

"O My servants! Through the might of God and His power, and out of the treasury of His knowledge and wisdom, I have brought forth and revealed unto you the pearls that lay concealed in the depths of His everlasting ocean. I have summoned the Maids of Heaven to emerge from behind the veil of concealment, and have clothed them with these words of Mine -- words of consummate power and wisdom. I have, moreover, with the hand of divine power, unsealed the choice wine of My Revelation, and have wafted its holy, its hidden, and musk-laden fragrance upon all created things. Who else but yourselves is to be blamed if ye choose to remain unendowed with so great an outpouring of God's transcendent and all-encompassing grace, with so bright a revelation of His resplendent mercy?"

Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 327-328

Does your Faith have such guidance?

Is a faith and all we do in that faith based in choices we have made?

And/Or

Can we have a faith without making choices?

So all the best and it will be interesting to ponder the replies people offer.

Regards Tony

Based on how you use the word faith here.

I would say no. The reason being that we don't choose what to believe in and not, something either convince us or it doesn't. If it does we will believe and have faith in it.

You can't simply choose to not believe something because you feel like it, you can spend time and effort examining something you might believe in and it could convince you that something else is true. In that sense we all live in our own little bubble of convictions about what we believe to be true. It is only by putting our beliefs to the test what we can "change" them, but we still don't really choose them, because such test might not lead to what we thought it would. But in my opinion that is closes one can get to controlling ones beliefs.

 

[Sheldon]

You can't simply choose to not believe something because you feel like it,

Have you spent much time talking to creationists?