Chris Rock versus Will Smith

[Revoltingest]

Comedy is context, and therefore subjective. Woe to the comedians unable to adapt.

Good comedy is an art; it takes a balancing act that has to tremendously factor in the audience.

I almost always use this quote when this issue comes up, but I agree with Terry Pratchett: "Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying." Satire is its own beast, but the sentiment is the same. Comedy that purposely hurts is no better than bullying.

Here's hoping that comics don't "adapt"
in a manner that neuters humor.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think most agree that Will's reaction was inappropriate. However, "just words" doesn't mean Chris Rock wasn't in the wrong as well, albeit to a lesser extent than Will, who took things to a physical level.

No, Chris Rock definitely wasn't "right" in picking on someone's baldness due to some physical condition that can't be helped. But I would be hard-pressed saying that it was definitively "wrong" to have made the joke either. Again - I believe that he should be able to say those words... and be subject to any non-physical consequences that come along with them. Anyone who also had some choice words to say to him, or even wanted to make fun of some aspect of his person, or ask him to leave, etc. Any of that could have been the response, and I would have completely and totally accepted it... and literally ANY words someone else wanted to lay on Chris Rock. But taking it to a physical response is tacit admittance that you don't have the ability to respond on a mental/intellectual level. That was likely literally all Will Smith had in that moment. Which is super duper sad for him.

A couple of years in grade school also teach most people that making fun of someone's appearance or medical conditions is a line you don't cross unless you know they would be okay with the joke.

Agreed. And we can chastise Chris Rock all we want for the words he said, and try to make him see the error of his ways. But none of our feelings about that excuses anything Will Smith decided to do. So yes, both men can be chastised in the end, but the key difference is that I fully support Chris Rock's right to speak the words that make up that "joke," but I DO NOT support any bit of what Will Smith did in response to those words. There is no societally granted "right" that covers slapping a fellow citizen in the face - nor should there be.

Also, I don't think legal limits or anything of the sort should be imposed on a joke like Chris Rock's: by "shouldn't be able to say whatever they want without second thought," I mean that they should think their words and audience through instead of blurting out whatever comes to mind and expecting not to face any (non-physical) backlash for it.

We are in agreement here.

And I'm not convinced that free speech applies to non-governmental entities either. When you're speaking at a privately hosted ceremony, no, you don't have the same level of free speech as someone who speaks in public or at a governmental facility.

The academy is certainly free to ask Chris Rock to leave, or not ask him back, etc. But if that had been enacted, then there would have had to have been at least the same requests made to Will Smith for perpetrating a far worse offense.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Here's hoping that comics don't "adapt"
in a manner that neuters humor.

I wouldn't worry. There's plenty of adept jokesters capable of edgy humor that can read a room.

Note: I am not unconvinced that this incident was somehow contrived or an set up in some way.

 

[Watchmen]

Food for thought. Did Chris Rock even WRITE the joke??? The Oscars has writers that write most of the material.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Note: I am not unconvinced that this incident was somehow contrived or an set up in some way.

If I had to give it a percentage, after watching the footage a few times, I would say I am 99% confident that this was NOT a setup. It can easily be seen that Will Smith was laughing at the joke himself, before he caught sight of his wife taking it poorly. Just after that, the camera is off of them for a few moments, and then Will Smith is walking up, strikes Chris Rock, who, by all appearances, seems shaken - the rocky transition into trying to make light of it, Will Smith screaming at him to keep his wife's name out of Rock's mouth, and Chris Rock telling him somewhat tumultuously that he's going to. And then Smith's ridiculous words at acceptance of his award... pining for sympathy with tears, all the while talking about the character he played being a "fierce defender of family." No apology to Chris Rock forthcoming, of course. The lack of any response by the establishment to remove Will Smith, etc. It all seems entirely too plausible - and who on Earth would be foolish enough to tarnish (or even give the HONEST impression that they had tarnished) the achievement of an award they had obviously been seeking? Why would Smith do this? Why wouldn't it be more obvious that it was a stunt? Do we think that Smith is "standing by" waiting for the right moment to inform us that it was all some social statement or experiment? Again... the plain witness of what went on as being the reality is simply too plausible.

And even if Smith did come forward, and stated that it was all a stunt, you'd likely be the type to then claim that their statement that it was a stunt or their reasons for claiming to have pulled the stunt, was a lie. Tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If I had to give it a percentage, after watching the footage a few times, I would say I am 99% confident that this was NOT a setup. It can easily be seen that Will Smith was laughing at the joke himself, before he caught sight of his wife taking it poorly. Just after that, the camera is off of them for a few moments, and then Will Smith is walking up, strikes Chris Rock, who, by all appearances, seems shaken - the rocky transition into trying to make light of it, Will Smith screaming at him to keep his wife's name out of Rock's mouth, and Chris Rock telling him somewhat tumultuously that he's going to. And then Smith's ridiculous words at acceptance of his award... pining for sympathy with tears, all the while talking about the character he played being a "fierce defender of family." No apology forthcoming, of course. The lack of any response by the establishment to remove Will Smith, etc. It all seems entirely too plausible - and who on Earth would be foolish enough to tarnish (or even give the HONEST impression that they had tarnished) the achievement of an award they had obviously been seeking? Why would Smith do this? Why wouldn't it be more obvious that it was a stunt? Do we think that Smith is "standing by" waiting for the right moment to inform us that it was all some social statement or experiment? Again... the plain witness of what went on as being the reality is simply too plausible.

And even if Smith did come forward, and stated that it was all a stunt, you'd likely be the type to then claim that their statement that it was a stunt or their reasons for claiming to have pulled the stunt, was a lie. Tell me I'm wrong.

You're wrong...mostly. I am not apt to believe in conspiracy theories without evidence. Simultaneously, that doesn't mean I wouldn't be wholly convinced otherwise. This is a Hollywood event with skilled actors, and guess what everyone is talking about?

But you're correct, it could be exactly what it was.

So let me reciprocate. Given your suspicion of Smith's statements, would accept it if any of them came out and claimed it as a setup?

 

[Watchmen]

It’s not a setup, folks. Why would the Oscars overshadow what included a ton of diverse winners with a black on black slap to the face?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You're wrong...mostly. I am not apt to believe in conspiracy theories without evidence. Simultaneously, that doesn't mean I wouldn't be wholly convinced otherwise. This is a Hollywood event with skilled actors, and guess what everyone is talking about?

But you're correct, it could be exactly what it was.

So let me reciprocate. Given your suspicion of Smith's statements, would accept it if any of them came out and claimed it as a setup?

If they both/all (Smith(s), Rock, the Academy) came, simultaneously, and stories corroborated then I would be more apt to believe it, surely. Any hold outs, and no, I wouldn't believe it.

And believe me when I say that this is one instance in which I am glad to hear that I was wrong.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If they both/all (Smith(s), Rock, the Academy) came, simultaneously, and stories corroborated then I would be more apt to believe it, surely. Any hold outs, and no, I wouldn't believe it.

And believe me when I say that this is one instance in which I am glad to hear that I was wrong.

Fair enough!

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It’s not a setup, folks. Why would the Oscars overshadow what included a ton of diverse winners with a black on black slap to the face?

What's everyone talking about now?

 

[Suave]

So who is excusing whom in this fight?

And the obvious questions:
If one of the participants had been white, if the other one had been, if one had been female etc...

Cancer survivors should not be mocked, cancer is nothing to joke about. I hope Will and his wife are doing fine and I wish them a speedy recovery

 

[Revoltingest]

Cancer survivors should not be mocked, cancer is nothing to joke about. I hope Will and his wife are doing fine and I wish them a speedy recovery

Who says she has cancer?

 

[Suave]

Who says she has cancer?

My bad, I thought her hair loss was from chemotherapy.

 

[Watchmen]

What's everyone talking about now?

They’re talking about Will Smith and Chris Rock—not the diversity of winners. I think that was obvious in my post.

 

[Watchmen]

Cancer survivors should not be mocked, cancer is nothing to joke about. I hope Will and his wife are doing fine and I wish them a speedy recovery

Tig Notaro disagrees.

 

[Revoltingest]

My bad, I thought her hair loss was from chemotherapy.

No worries.
Info does tend to change.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Here's hoping that comics don't "adapt"
in a manner that neuters humor.

Aye, there's the rub!

Chris Rock was doing what Chris Rock does -- and gets paid for. Watch the vid -- Will Smith laughed, then changed his mind when Jada rolled her eyes.

At the end of the day, I remember the verse I learned by heart by the time I was 5: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." And therefore, I've never felt it necessary (even when I was called ugly, ugly things in the 1960s) to hit anybody.

And certainly, never on a live program being broadcast to millions.

And the perceived "insult?" Wasn't that bad! G.I. Jane rocks, after all. And Demi Moore (as I understand it, being a non-consumer) was hot.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Will should've gotten kicked out of the ceremony for that, as well as his vulgar language. It was pathetic and trashy and furthers the decline of the Oscars, which used to be a prestigious and very formal event (i.e. it used to be classy, like most award shows, even the VMAs!). His acceptance speech was very bizarre, too. I somewhat wonder if the whole thing was staged for the ratings and attention. People on Twitter mentioned tuning in after hearing about it in their feed, so I would not be surprised. I give it a couple years before they have someone like Cardi B twerking in a thong during it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Will should've gotten kicked out of the ceremony for that, as well as his vulgar language. It was pathetic and trashy and furthers the decline of the Oscars, which used to be a prestigious and very formal event (i.e. it used to be classy, like most award shows, even the VMAs!). His acceptance speech was very bizarre, too. I somewhat wonder if the whole thing was staged for the ratings and attention. People on Twitter mentioned tuning in after hearing about it in their feed, so I would not be surprised. I give it a couple years before they have someone like Cardi B twerking in a thong during it.

Aye, kick him out immediately.
Then mail him his Oscar....with postage due.
It was not staged.

BTW, if Smith got this angry over a hair joke,
I wonder what he did to the guy she was banging
during their marriage.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It’s not a setup, folks. Why would the Oscars overshadow what included a ton of diverse winners with a black on black slap to the face?

For publicity? Ratings? You think that they really care about anything else?