Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[Deeje]

They don't confirm that, but thanks for your consideration.

No worries....feel free to ignore the very scriptures that confirm the fact that you are mistaken...heaven forbid that you could make such an admission....

Paul didn't think it was separate. He forbade Judaizers to circumcise gentiles

Again, you are showing how little you know of scripture. All Gentiles who wanted to come into a relationship with Israel's God had to be circumcised. For that reason, Paul did not forbid the circumcision of Gentiles per se...what the Christian elders in Jerusalem affirmed was that there was no need to circumcise Gentiles who became Christians, since they were not converting to Judaism. (Acts 15:5, 6, 28, 29) Circumcision was for Jews only. Paul circumcised Timothy before taking him on a preaching tour. Timothy was not circumcised because his Father was Greek, not Jewish. Paul performed the circumcision so as not to stumble the Jews to whom they preached. (Acts 16:3)

Paul never clarified any spiritual dimension to it.

Again, I believe that you are in error.

The apostle Paul, in arguing that the Jews were mistaken in their pride of fleshly descent and in relying on the works of the Law to find favor with God, said: “For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.” (Romans 2:28, 29)

Are you yet going to ignore the evidence? In your ignorance, you keep shooting yourself in the foot. Why profess to be so knowledgeable about the Bible, when it is clear that you knowledge is completely lacking.

Hopefully you are a better Buddhist than you were a Christian.....

Are these your own ideas or have you borrowed them from someone else?

 

[Deeje]

I have the Revelation of Baha'u'llah so I do not need the Bible. The Bible has been relegated to history.

You just removed any and all reasons why any Christian should want to have dialogue with you. You pretend that the Bible is important and then say something like that......now we see the true colors.

Let's see what good your prophet can do for those of you who follow his teachings.....we will all know soon enough.

 

[Trailblazer]

You just removed any and all reasons why any Christian should want to have dialogue with you. You pretend that the Bible is important and then say something like that......now we see the true colors.

I am just being honest about my beliefs. The Bible is the testimony of God so in that context it is important; as Baha'u'llah wrote while addressing the Muslims:

“We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also?” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 89

However, the Bible is not what God wants us to be following in this new age, since God has spoken again through a new Manifestation, Baha'u'llah. When I said relegated to history, that is the context of what I said. Baha'u'llah explains one reason why we should turn towards His Revelation.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings, pp. 171-172

The other reason is that we now have a new message, and new social teachings and laws that pertain to this age in history. This all makes logical sense.

Let's see what good your prophet can do for those of you who follow his teachings.....we will all know soon enough.

We won't know very soon but we will know in God's time, when the appointed hour is come:

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, there are no mixed messages in the Bible....only mixed conclusions from those who have not done their homework thoroughly enough. All questions are answerable if you know what the Bible actually says as a whole, rather than relying on bits and pieces that are unconnected...or on trusting the conclusions reached by others without thoroughly checking things out for yourself.

Baha'u'llah asks us to do a search for our own selves. He has asked us to look at what He has provided.

Revelation 2:7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’

Revelation 2:29 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Now the connection with the Father;

Revelation 3:21"To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Christ is Baha'u'llah, returned in the station of the Father. No one knows or has seen our One God, not even Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You just removed any and all reasons why any Christian should want to have dialogue with you. You pretend that the Bible is important and then say something like that......now we see the true colors.

Let's see what good your prophet can do for those of you who follow his teachings.....we will all know soon enough.

Deeje, we need to see how important the Bible is in our lives and will always be;

This is the Inscription in the Old Bible Written by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in Persian;

THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá Abbás.

Each is on a journey in the Love of God, each has a different way of seeing things and explaining that vision.

Thank you for your comments on this post, please know that Christ can never be made obsolete, it is eternal.

I would put it more like it is a New Testament. Thus just as the Bible we have the Old and the New, this is the Message of Baha'u'llah, it builds on the past understandings. I see it all as one book, a progression of understanding with laws applicable to the age the Message was given.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Number 2-- every eye will see him at his coming.Revelation 1:7.

These passages viewed in a literal way to gain a vision of our Spiritual Christ, may find that other passages become applicable, such as;

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 25:10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Thus it appears it may be that all the eyes that will see and ears that will hear and the knees that will bend are those that are ready. It does not mean that everyone has eyes that will see, ears to hear or have willing knees to bend.

The first appearance of out Lord Jesus the Christ, also fulfilled this Prophecy, as it was foretold in Isaiah.



Again this happens in the Spirit on the acceptance of the returned Christ, it is not a material unfolding. One minute we live this life chasing the material benefits and pleasures, we may even think we do this and are righteous in Faith, But in the next minute we discover Christ has returned and the world is no more. We are born again into the Spirit while still in the flesh.

This was also applicable at Christs first appearance, it is applicable in all of Christs appearances. remember Christ is the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the end, all this in a world where a body dies and does not last.



Baha'u'llah has given us a vision of these spiritual walls that will crumble and fall down;

"..Thus it is that certain invalid souls have confined the lands of knowledge within the wall of self and passion, and clouded them with ignorance and blindness, and have been veiled from the light of the mystic sun and the mysteries of the Eternal Beloved; they have strayed afar from the jewelled wisdom of the lucid Faith of the Lord of Messengers, have been shut out of the sanctuary of the All-Beauteous One, and banished from the Ka'bih [1] of splendor. Such is the worth of the people of this age!.." Baha'u'llah : The Seven Valleys

We have to look beyond the material, beyond our self made thoughts and bring down those walls and vanish the clouds that obscure our vision.

Just as the Disciples did at the First appearance of Christ and all of Christs appearances.

Regards Tony[/QUOTE]What is the Baha'i answer to Christ and the Mt of Olives? I don't remember any connection between Baha'u'llah and Jerusalem.

 

[Deeje]

However, the Bible is not what God wants us to be following in this new age, since God has spoken again through a new Manifestation, Baha'u'llah. When I said relegated to history, that is the context of what I said. Baha'u'llah explains one reason why we should turn towards His Revelation.

Only 'you' (Bahai's) believe this to be true. Who else accepts your prophet? No one.
It seems as if there are a few faiths in the world who accept Jesus as a prophet, even if they do not recognize him as the son of God.

Very few have not heard of Jesus Christ....but who has heard of the man whose name no one can even pronounce? Seriously? You put a lot of trust in someone who was famous to no one but the ones who believed him. Did he perform miracles like Jesus did? Could he raise the dead? Heal every sick person brought to him? Did he manifest himself to his disciples after his death? Why would you believe that someone who claimed to be Jesus returned, who could do nothing like he did the first time he came?

I have seen Baha'u'llah's elaborate tomb.....but can you show me where Jesus is buried?
You believe that Jesus died twice? If you do then you have no idea why he died the first time! He was not to return as a man but as a mighty spirit King with an angelic army to judge the world, separate the "sheep" from the "goats", and fix everything that is broken in this world.....what did your prophet do? None of the above.

The other reason is that we now have a new message, and new social teachings and laws that pertain to this age in history. This all makes logical sense.

It makes logical sense only to those indoctrinated to believe it. Its gobbledygook to me.The Bible is the only message from God.....or should we believe Joseph Smith and a host of other 'prophets' who were given messages for mankind? If they conflict with the Bible...they are not from God. There is nothing new.

We won't know very soon but we will know in God's time, when the appointed hour is come:

Indeed God will act in his own time, but the sign given by Jesus shows us that the world is sinking further and further into a moral morass......country after country are demonstrating that they are fed up with corrupt and inadequate rulership....and man's selfishly negative impact on this planet is taking us to the point of no return.....and you think its a long way off?......I don't.

 

[Deeje]

Baha'u'llah asks us to do a search for our own selves. He has asked us to look at what He has provided.

Revelation 2:7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’

Revelation 2:29 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

If you are going to use Christian scripture, then at least acknowledge that these messages are to Christian Churches....not to Baha'i believers who stem from Islam....not even Judaism.

Calling your prophet the 'returned Christ' with absolutely no proof of his credentials, is pure gullibility....but you can believe it if you wish.....its your choice.

Now the connection with the Father;

Revelation 3:21"To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Christ is Baha'u'llah, returned in the station of the Father. No one knows or has seen our One God, not even Christ.

Again you alone believe this applies to you. This message is addressed to Christians, not Muslims, not Hindus, not Buddhists and not Baha'i's. If you are going to steal Christian scripture, spoken by Jesus Christ himself, then at least acknowledge to whom it was written. Your prophet pretending to be Jesus in his second coming, does not ring true in any way. It fails to fulfill scripture in any way.

Jesus said that salvation originates with the Jews...not with a breakaway from Islam. You haven't even got a foot in the door IMV. Sorry.

I used to view Baha'i as a rather innocuous faith, but now I view it with suspicion. Like Islam, does it secretly want to take over the world?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What is the Baha'i answer to Christ and the Mt of Olives? I don't remember any connection between Baha'u'llah and Jerusalem.

I will give my thoughts on this.

Jerusalem means 'Abode of Peace' or 'City of Peace'. Christ talks about the new Jerusalem.

Zion is the 'City of God'

The Mount of Olives was the place of significant events on the time of Christ.

The New Jerusalem can now be seen as Haifa, the Law now goes out from Zion which is the World Center on Mt Carmel. Mt Carmel as per Old Testament Prophecy has sèen the "Glory of God."

There is quite a few passages about a New Jerusalem, people also expect a 3rd Temple, which we now know is the Temple of Baha'u'llah.

Revelation.21:2"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jesus said that salvation originates with the Jews...not with a breakaway from Islam. You haven't even got a foot in the door IMV. Sorry.

I used to view Baha'i as a rather innocuous faith, but now I view it with suspicion. Like Islam, does it secretly want to take over the world?

Having your view is what life is about, free will to make your choice.

God doeth as He Willeth, our part is to see what is of God and what is of our own selves.

As the future unfolds, yes much more will be made clear, Christ has said the first will be last and the last first. It is not surprising then that many Christains have not seen who Baha'u'llah is.

The Jews Faith was and now is again centered in the Holy Land, as is Christianity and as did the Muslim Faith have this as a major branch. Thus It is of no coincidence that the Message of Baha'u'llah is now centred in the Holy Land. The New Jerusalem.

"Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."

Now is the time of the Baha'i Fast that God has commanded in this day (Mar 2nd to 20th), it is applicable the passage after the Lords prayer is;

"Proper Fasting

16Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 17But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly."

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Calling your prophet the 'returned Christ' with absolutely no proof of his credentials, is pure gullibility....but you can believe it if you wish.....its your choice.

I have done my research and made my choice as the Bible has advised me to do so.

I would ask have you fulfilled scriptural obligations of a just judgment, that allow you to make such a comment based on a presentable proof?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Only 'you' (Bahai's) believe this to be true. Who else accepts your prophet? No one.
It seems as if there are a few faiths in the world who accept Jesus as a prophet, even if they do not recognize him as the son of God.

Very few have not heard of Jesus Christ....but who has heard of the man whose name no one can even pronounce? Seriously?

How many people in the world do you think had heard of Jesus 165 years after He came to earth? How many people do you think were Christians?

“Most scholars of Christian origins tend to exaggerate the size and importance of the early Christian church. This is understandable in the light of the discipline’s intense concentration on the New Testament texts. By confining ourselves in particular to the letters of Paul, the Gospels and Acts, it is all too easy to create a limited and false impression of the ancient world and the place of the Christians within it. Yet the reality is that for all of the first century the Christians were a tiny and insignificant socio-religious movement within the Graeco-Roman world (Hopkins 1998:195-196). Christianity did of course grow considerably in later centuries and it eventually became the religion of the Roman empire, but we should take care not to retroject its later size and importance into the initial decades of its existence.

Just how small was the Christian movement in the first century is clear from the calculations of the sociologist R Stark (1996:5-7; so too Hopkins 1998:192-193). Stark begins his analysis with a rough estimation of six million Christians in the Roman Empire (or about ten percent of the total population) at the start of the fourth century... There were 1,000 Christians in the year 40, 1 400 Christians in 50, 1 960 Christians in 60, 2 744 Christians in 70, 3 842 Christians in 80, 5 378 Christians in 90 and 7 530 Christians at the end of the first century.

These figures are very suggestive, and reinforce the point that in its initial decades the Christian movement represented a tiny fraction of the ancient world.” How many Jews became Christians in the first century?

How many people believe a religion has nothing to do with whether it is actually the Truth from God or not. It is the evidence that helps us determine that is as follows: Who Baha’u’llah was as a Person (His character); what He did during His 30 years mission on earth; the history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward; the scriptures that He wrote; what His authorized interpreters wrote; what others have written about the Baha’i Faith; the Bible prophecies that He fulfilled, as well as prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled; predictions He made that have come to pass; the religion that He established (followers) all over the world and what they have done and are doing now.

You put a lot of trust in someone who was famous to no one but the ones who believed him. Did he perform miracles like Jesus did? Could he raise the dead? Heal every sick person brought to him? Did he manifest himself to his disciples after his death? Why would you believe that someone who claimed to be Jesus returned, who could do nothing like he did the first time he came?

I have seen Baha'u'llah's elaborate tomb.....but can you show me where Jesus is buried?
You believe that Jesus died twice? If you do then you have no idea why he died the first time! He was not to return as a man but as a mighty spirit King with an angelic army to judge the world, separate the "sheep" from the "goats", and fix everything that is broken in this world.....what did your prophet do? None of the above.

What does being famous have to do with anything at all? Many men were famous, but they were not Manifestations of God. As usual, Christians make this a competition between Jesus and Baha’u’llah. Eye roll There is no competition because they both came from the same God and they both carried the same Spirit of God to humanity.

Prophets are the same in the sense that they all “manifest” the same Spirit of God (which is why they are called Manifestations of God). Baha’u’llah called this essential oneness “the Unity of God.”

“These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory. Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur’án, revealed: “I am all the Prophets.” Likewise, He saith: “I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus.” Gleanings, pp. 50-51

However, all the Manifestations of God are different in the sense that they all have an individual soul and a different physical body and a different mission on earth.

“The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. Even as He saith: “Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit.” Gleanings, p. 52

There is absolutely no reason to think that Baha’u’llah would do what Jesus did because he had a different mission, designated by God. Moreover, Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world (John 17:4, John 17:11). Jesus laid the groundwork for what would happen in the future when the Spirit of truth would come. Baha’u’llah was the Spirit of truth.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Baha’u’llah came to pick up where Jesus left off and to fulfill what Jesus said He (the Comforter and Spirit of truth) would do: Teach you all things, Call to remembrance what Jesus said, Testify of Jesus, Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you, Guide you into all truth, Speak what He hears and shew you things to come, Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.

You said: “He was not to return as a man but as a mighty spirit King with an angelic army to judge the world, separate the "sheep" from the "goats", and fix everything that is broken in this world.....”

Do you have scriptures to back that up?

It makes logical sense only to those indoctrinated to believe it. Its gobbledygook to me.The Bible is the only message from God.....or should we believe Joseph Smith and a host of other 'prophets' who were given messages for mankind? If they conflict with the Bible...they are not from God. There is nothing new.

I never said that you should believe anyone who says they are a Prophet. Jesus gave the criteria for testing the Prophets: Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

As I have been telling my Christian friend on another forum for 3 ½ years, what Baha’u’llah wrote does not conflict with the Bible; it only conflicts with the Christian interpretation of the Bible. I have probably written that at least 100 times and counting, but for some reason he still doesn’t get it. He is also from Australia, Melbourne as I recall.

As I said to someone on this forum not long ago: “I believe in Jesus but I am not a Christian. As an outsider looking in, I cannot understand how it is possible to parse out which Christians have the true beliefs and which ones have the false beliefs. They are all reading from the same Bible so it is all a matter of interpretation, isn't it? What else can it possibly be?”

Baha’is are not indoctrinated because there is nobody to indoctrinate us, since we have no clergy. We are enjoined to independently investigate the truth for ourselves.

Indeed God will act in his own time, but the sign given by Jesus shows us that the world is sinking further and further into a moral morass......country after country are demonstrating that they are fed up with corrupt and inadequate rulership....and man's selfishly negative impact on this planet is taking us to the point of no return.....and you think its a long way off?......I don't.

We are already in the process of the old world order crumbling and a new World Order will rise in its stead.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 7

The processes of tearing down and building up are going on concurrently, but the New World Order will not be built overnight because it will be built by the people and people do not move that quickly. So what I meant is that we won’t know for a long time how everything is going to pan out. The Golden Age is a long way off:

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it......” The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

 

[Trailblazer]

Calling your prophet the 'returned Christ' with absolutely no proof of his credentials, is pure gullibility....but you can believe it if you wish.....its your choice.

Who said we have no proof? We have more proof of the credentials of Baha'u'llah than you have of the credentials of Jesus' since we have His Original Writings penned in His own Hand and we have a recent history of His Mission on earth which is verifiable. What you have is what other people said that Jesus said to someone else.

Some people do not even believe that Jesus existed but I am not worried because I know Jesus existed and I know quite a bit from what Baha'u'llah wrote about Jesus, which is verified by the NT scriptures.

“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

 

[oldbadger]

How stupid do you think I am? I just came from another forum where I had been for four years and their favorite thing to do was rank on Baha’is day and night, and especially they ranked on the UHJ and were suspicious of their motives... I was the only Baha’i there defending the Faith... Oh, I know about all the anti-Baha’i propaganda. Sure, they know more about the Baha’i Faith than the Baha’is on this forum and people like me who have been Baha’is for 40 or 50 years.

Oh, and just one small thing... Since they are obviously anti-Baha’i given they were formerly Baha’is who dropped out or they just never liked the Baha’i Faith, they have all kinds of motives to misrepresent Baha’i beliefs...

This is logic 101 stuff and psych 101 stuff.

Let's just focus upon your rant, just above.
I'm not interested in where you have been before RF.
I have gained nearly all of my info from one RF thread.

From what you say, above, it would appear that there are web sites crammed full with 'either' one-time Bahais who stopped believing in it 'or' existing Bahais but excommunicated.

Now, calm down and just imagine that Bahais like you had huge power and authority in a Bahai World. Let us imagine how that pent-up aggression against any Bahai opposition would be manifested............... huh? And the frightening thing is that you would believe that you would be doing holy things in any subjection imposed upon detractors. Just read your own writing....................

We are safe, so long as Bahai just remains small.

To believe these people would be like a Christian going to Caiphas for “accurate information” about Jesus. ROTFL

Some of us believe that Cephas's memoirs are the only true ones, written to set a distorted record straight.
But you already knew that, I'm guessing, or you would not have written the above.

 

[oldbadger]

Theocracy, separation of church and state by / on behalf of Universal House of Justice 1995-04-27

Theocracy, separation of church and state

With that back to topic.

Regards Tony

Oh dear.......... That hude doc, if actually read through with care, shows that Bahai will COMBINE church, state, civil insts, everything...... in one.

Let me show you:-
Firstly, it declares that Christianity and all else had MAN-MADE social structures, but Bahai is DIVINE. >>>>>>>
.............. the Catholic Church and the Caliphate, which are not divinely given as systems, but man- made .......
.....................The Bahá'í theocracy, on the contrary, is both divinely ordained as a system and, of course, based on the teachings of the Prophet Himself.
and then, later, the ultimate claim: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
......................the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh, likewise renewing man's spiritual life, will gradually produce the institutions of an ordered society, fulfilling not merely the function of the churches of the past but also the function of the civil state.

See? Bahai, in a Bahai Woprld, would control it all.

The great worry about Bahai is that it can take a writing and turn it right around to mean the opposite......... DOUBLE-THINK.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let's just focus upon your rant, just above.
I'm not interested in where you have been before RF.
I have gained nearly all of my info from one RF thread.

That was not a rant. I just like to nip things in the bud and set the record straight before things get out of hand. I do not mince words like some other Baha’is. What you call a rant is just a little venting about what I went through as it is recent in my memory. No such behavior is allowed in this forum so you have not seen the likes of these kinds of angry atheists. When one person owns a forum he sets the rules; it is not a democracy. It is pertinent to this conversation because I am in no mood to relive what I went through there. Everyone there thought I was a masochist to tolerate it because they knew it was abusive.... and now I am done.

If you have gained all your info from one RF thread that is not what I would call “individual investigation of truth.” We are told to do our own research, not to believe what others say, pro or con. For another thing, a few Baha’is do not represent the whole Baha’i Faith, that is just their spin on it and there is no way you could learn everything about a religion on one thread.

From what you say, above, it would appear that there are web sites crammed full with 'either' one-time Bahais who stopped believing in it 'or' existing Bahais but excommunicated.

Now, calm down and just imagine that Bahais like you had huge power and authority in a Bahai World. Let us imagine how that pent-up aggression against any Bahai opposition would be manifested............... huh? And the frightening thing is that you would believe that you would be doing holy things in any subjection imposed upon detractors. Just read your own writing....................

We are safe, so long as Bahai just remains small.

Yes indeed, there are websites like that, all over the place. Then there are also the Christians and some Muslim websites that speak out against us. The reason they step on us like a bunch of ants on the ground is because we are still rather small so they can get away with it and nobody is there to stand up for us but us; and we have to defend our Faith when attacked because Baha’u’llah said so.

Here is the salient problem with what you say. The Baha’i Faith does not want to have any power over anyone, it is a religion of peace and harmony and working together with people for the good of the whole of humanity, not wielding power over anyone:

“.........the followers of the Bahá’í Faith, nevertheless, viewing mankind as one entity, and profoundly attached to its vital interests, will not hesitate to subordinate every particular interest, be it personal, regional or national, to the over-riding interests of the generality of mankind, knowing full well that in a world of interdependent peoples and nations the advantage of the part is best to be reached by the advantage of the whole, and that no lasting result can be achieved by any of the component parts if the general interests of the entity itself are neglected….” The Promised Day Is Come, vi - vii

These anti-Baha’i websites have turned the Faith into something it is not in order to turn people away from it. They misrepresent our motives hoping nobody will find out... After all, the web is out there for everyone to read from.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Well this has been fun @Deeje, but I won't continue dialogue with those that imply I'm ignorant and unlearned

Peace

 

[loverofhumanity]

Only Revelation makes no mention of the accounts being metaphor, so this is - at best - Baha'i re-writing (or attempting to) another religion's scripture and acting like their interpretation is the truth of it.


No, they're actually not. While mob mentality might hold some level of social sway, it's not actually illegal to be a racist.


As ever, there is no "birth of a new age". There's just a new coat of paint slapped over the old. Do you really think we're any better than, say, Roman times?


Foolishly optimistic. I don't think world tensions have been as high since the Cuban Missile Crisis. And we're not moving towards true equality, it's "equality unless you disagree with the status quo." As ever.

I think we are highly manipulated to think the worst and be negative. It’s the side effects of materialism but if one has a spiritual outlook and sees the potential for good in everyone then it’s easy to see we have not only progressed but are in a good place.

People now are more conscious of things like human rights and women’s equality and are more against war than ever.

It also depends on your surroundings and environment. I’m surrounded by people who care and are working to make a difference to society and who all have heaps of hope in humanity’s future and I envisage a glorious golden age for humanity.

People who’ve lost all hope speak like you do. You think it’s the end and there’s nothing we can do. Negative spin is just that, negative spin which is just about all the media put out nowadays. But it’s not the reality. I see a lot of very positive processes started up by wonderful people such as human rights causes, education for girls, the status of women, the fight against racism, interfaith and a heap of new causes that are working towards a better world.

If you only pay attention to all the negative spin then that’s all you’ll see. Beyond the clouds the sun still shines brightly.

People are so stricken by hopelessness and despair merely because of a lot of negative spin. For the first time in human history we are a global village. World unity is within our reach technologically and is advancing. Don’t just see the negative because there’s heaps and heaps of positive things happening.

Try and see this despair that has set in as just spin. We have a plan, and we are implementing it and changing the world and making it a better one.

Without Baha’u’llah of course there is so much despair as everything looks so hopeless. But those who have the vision He has given are filled with hope and supremely confident in humanity’s future.

 

[Deeje]

Well this has been fun @Deeje, but I won't continue dialogue with those that imply I'm ignorant and unlearned

LOL.... was that a hasty retreat?

If you are not ignorant or unlearned then I assume you could have backed up your arguments....with scripture...? All I heard were empty protestations and the misapplication of what you appear to remember from some time ago.

Disappointing really.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

LOL.... was that a hasty retreat?

If you are not ignorant or unleaded then I assume you could have backed up your arguments....with scripture...? All I heard were empty protestations and the misapplication of what you appear to remember from some time ago.

Disappointing really.

If Baha'u'llah's Message is the One you await, then much you now consider truth, will be a cause for much reflection in the future.

We have not even started exploring a small part of Prophecy fulfilled by Baha'u'llah, Christ come in His New Name, in the Glory of God, the Father guiding us unto all Truth.

Regards Tony