Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[Trailblazer]

Of course not. Who ever told you otherwise?
You don't concentrate on posts. I wrote :-
In order to test my studies in Historic Jesus

But amazingly I discovered that many of the best HJ brains seem to do this, and by reading their answers to tough questions one learns that which can not be found on friendly sites.

I see no problem with looking at all the available information, as long as you do not believe everything you read without question. We should read everything we can get our hands on.

Wrong. We can learn much background by studying the available historical records of early 1st century Galilee and Israel and the Jewish people. We can learn from available archaeological research. The Numismatic societies offer much info about coinage and trading movement. Local oral traditions from as far away as Cornwall and India need to be considered if not accepted. The writings of authors both friendly and unfriendly about Jesus need review. Even the weather, lefe-expectation, the social orders, the laws, the blooming agriculture.... can help to build a background out of which Yeshua and the Baptist emerged.

You do it your way....... I'll do it mine.

Sorry, I did not know such records were available.. history was never my best subject, my husband likes to chide me about that because he likes history.

Please point to a religion which deserves more attention. Bahai is selling itself in various threads and therefore may attract attention which it doesn't like. And it tells a distorted story, imo, and that just niggles.

It is a religion that needs more positive attention but mostly it gets negative attention... ever noticed that?

You see? This has been the nature of Bahai through several threads now. When Bahai cannot answer critical posts the direction of emphasis changes to focus upon the critic, the critic's nature, psychology, personal character. And many have jumped over into outright slanders...... on other threads.

Sorry, I am a Johnny-come-lately on the scene so I have no idea what went on before I arrived... One thing we all need to work on is not being defensive when our beliefs are called into question, but I do not think that our character should be called into question on forums such as these. If we do not have anything good to say to someone we should not say anything. Abdu'l-Baha said that fault-finding is the most hateful characteristic of man.

In a Bahai World Bahai Houses of Justice would be a very worrying crowd, I reckon. You can't be wrong..... can you!

The UHJ is suppossed to be infallible, we will see how that pans out.

Who knows, maybe a UHJ may receive Divine Guidance to enact the Bab's laws and turn non-Bahais out of their cities or their homes?

You sure have quite an imagination. I do not worry about what will happen in the future, I live in the present. Somewhere in the Writings it says this is an infant Faith and we will make mistakes as we learn, and that could even apply to the UHJ. Keep in mind when Baha'u'llah said they are infallible, He was thinking of the ideal, what He envisioned.

Oh please!
Don't do this!
Have you seen your Temples?
Have you a list of your buildings in so many countries?
I wonder how much the Bahai building in London (alone) might be worth?

You can't afford to pay a Bahai group to translate all?
That's the most pathetic proposal I have ever heard about Bahai.

I have heard this same argument on the forum I came from, over and over. As I told them, I do not make these decisions... I also told them we do not need those Writings that have not yet been translated right now, we have the most important Writings translated into English... I have proof of that if you want it, I do my research when people confront me. I never run away with my tail between my legs...

 

[Trailblazer]

Heh!
Your last post retired from conversation with me!
As you said, you've been this road before, are tired of it, did not come to RF for this, have other posts to read and respond to.....................
.........................

Keep in mind I am not retired so I only have so much time... I try to answer every post I get and that is a lot of posts. I never eat till dinner and my husband finally got tired of waiting for dinner so he made his own dinner and went back to watching politics on TV...... I go back to work next Thursday so you won't see as much of me as you have seen for the last three weeks since I have been home on vacation, some vacation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I do not believe what you are telling me. You probably just don't realise what the aim and objective of Bahai is. But I'm not trying to change your solid viewpoint, rather to show others.

If........ if Bahai had described a World where everybody's vote would count, and where true egalitarian principles would be upheld then that would have made a significant difference to many other cultures and religions, but it did not and does not.

If you can not ask a Baha'i, who whole aim is to be Trustworthy and Truthful, who will you ask?

That is the Baha'i Administrative System. Every vote counts and we vote for the best people available with both the Spiritual and Material knowledge and active in service.

No person can canvas for a vote as it is against Baha'i Law to do so in any way. It is entirely a vote for who you think will do the best job in the the elected roll.

This process happens in places like India where Class and Gender used to be an Issue. Not in Baha'i Elections.

The world can learn a lot from this process.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Deeje said: The Bible says that God's last prophet was Jesus Christ the man, and that there is no need for anyone else.

Trailblazer said: Show me where the Bible says that.

Deeje said: Hebrews 1:1-2..."Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things."

John 17:3..."This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ"

I see nothing in those verses that say “God's last prophet was Jesus Christ the man.”

One misguided mortal claiming to be the returned Jesus Christ, coming from a breakaway from Islam is actually laughable....all you have are his ramblings and little else. He obviously appeals to you on some level that I fail to understand.....He died.....was Christ to die twice? Show me where it says in scripture that Christ was to come again as a mortal man. The Bible says he will come as a mighty spirit King, accompanied by his angels.

Baha’u’llah is not a breakaway from Islam, nor was he a misguided mortal. He was a Manifestation of God on par with Jesus and Moses and Muhammad. He got a direct revelation from God through the Holy Spirit, just like Moses and Jesus and Muhammad.

The same man Jesus was never planning to come to earth again at all (John 17: 4, John 17:11).

Jesus said....
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left."

Did Baha'u'llah come in that way? Was it with glory...with all his angels with him? Has he separated the sheep from the goats? Has God's Kingdom "come" and do we see God's will being "done on earth as it is in heaven?

If not, then your prophet is a fraud.

No, if not, you interpreted the scripture incorrectly. You think you know what that means but those verses are symbolic and they all refer to Baha’u’llah and are being fulfilled by His Coming... Do you really believe there will be a physical throne and animals called sheep and goats? If those are symbolic so is the army of angels... the army of angels are the followers of Baha’u’llah. He has separated the sheep from the goats; those who followed Him vs. those who rejected Him. It has been done and it is still happening as we speak. You have picked your side, I have picked mine.

All those verses are about Baha’u’llah, not about the same man Jesus. Baha’u’llah was the return of the Son of man. Those verses were fulfilled by the coming of Baha’u’llah but it was not the literal fulfillment that Christians believe... What, do you really believe that Jesus, accompanied by an army of angels is going to appear in the sky and everyone on earth will see Jesus? That is impossible since He would only appear in one place.

Was Baha'u'llah the holy spirit? That is what Jesus was promising. The gathering in an upper room saw Christ's disciples receiving miraculous gifts in order to preach the Kingdom message to Jerusalem's foreign visitors. They could heal the sick and raise the dead......could your prophet do that? Could he empower others to do that?

Jesus was promising to send the Holy Spirit which would come when the Father sent Baha’u’llah from heaven. Though born on earth as a man, Baha’u’llah like Jesus was sent from the heaven of the will of God.

All of John 14, 15, 1nd 16 is about the Comforter/Spirit of truth, which was the Holy Spirit that would come again in the Person of Baha’u’llah, the Comforter that Jesus said He would send from the Father when He got to heaven. Jesus said He had to depart so He could go to heaven and send the Comforter, since there cannot be more than one Comforter on earth at the same time. Jesus was the first Comforter, Baha’u’llah was another Comforter.

Much of what Christians believe about the return of Christ is because they do not understand what Jesus was saying in John. Sure, we know that the Holy Spirit was sent at Pentecost, but that was a one-time occurrence, and that does not mean the Holy Spirit cannot be sent again later... What, do you think God’s hands are tied, so God can send the Holy Spirit only once?

When Jesus said those words you quoted, he was telling his disciples that all would be revealed to them after he returned to heaven. In the verses before the ones you quoted, Jesus says....

“I have said these things to you so that you may not be stumbled. 2 Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have told you these things so that when the hour for them to happen arrives, you will remember that I told them to you.

“I did not tell you these things at first, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to the One who sent me; yet not one of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have told you these things, grief has filled your hearts. 7 Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. For if I do not go away, the helper will not come to you; but if I do go, I will send him to you. 8 And when that one comes, he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 first concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; 10 then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer"

That’s right, it would be revealed, when Jesus got to heaven and the Father sent the Comforter/Spirit of truth from the heaven of His will. All the following verses refer to Baha’u’llah.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for hedwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes forth from with the Father, *he* shall bear witness concerning me;

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

At Pentecost some days later, (not some centuries later) there was an outpouring of holy spirit and the disciples did indeed receive much understanding about the things that Christ had tried to convey to them before he left the earth.

When he promised to return, it was not as a man....he said that "because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer"....he would never again be seen as a man on earth.

That is just what you believe, but you do not believe that the same body of Jesus will return again like the bulk of Christians... How is that possible that you believe something completely different from most Christians, given you are reading the same Bible?

I see you share the same beliefs about Pentecost, but what happened at Pentecost is not what those verses in John refer to. Pentecost was a separate event. Sure, we know that the Holy Spirit was sent at Pentecost, but that was a one-time occurrence, and that does not mean the Holy Spirit cannot be sent again later... What, do you think God’s hands are tied, so God can send the Holy Spirit only once?

The judge of all the earth has not yet come.....I believe that you have been deceived.

You are free to believe whatever you want but you will be waiting a long time, forever, because the judge has already come:

“Dost thou believe thou hast the power to frustrate His Will, to hinder Him from executing His judgment, or to deter Him from exercising His sovereignty? Pretendest thou that aught in the heavens or in the earth can resist His Faith? No, by Him Who is the Eternal Truth! Nothing whatsoever in the whole of creation can thwart His Purpose. Cast away, therefore, the mere conceit thou dost follow, for mere conceit can never take the place of truth. Be thou of them that have truly repented and returned to God, the God Who hath created thee, Who hath nourished thee, and made thee a minister among them that profess thy faith.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 220

 

[Deeje]

You are free to believe whatever you want but you will be waiting a long time, forever, because the judge has already come:

Let's see who ends up surprised then shall we?

 

[wizanda]

Let's see who ends up surprised then shall we?

Both of you will be surprised, as I've been sent to explain where you both are in error before the Tribulation...

Yet since both of you ignore the character of Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels to be able to be a Baha'i or a Christian, then it isn't surprising you do not hear where i'm coming from either.

In my opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let's see who ends up surprised then shall we?

Yes, lets....

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Let's see who ends up surprised then shall we?

That was the purpose of the post, many would be surprised if they also found it has happened and they missed it.

The last thing to consider is if Baha'u'llah is not the Message that all wait for, then no Message prior to Baha'u'llah can be proved either. In rejecting Baha'u'llah, the same points of rejection one has used, are the ones that were used to refute all the previous Messages.

Regards Tony

 

[wizanda]

The last thing to consider is if Baha'u'llah is not the Message that all wait for, then no Message prior to Baha'u'llah can be proved either. In rejecting Baha'u'llah, the same points of rejection one has used, are the ones that were used to refute all the previous Messages.

Each individual case should be examined on its own merit...

Baha'u'llah's case fails on numerous reasons:

• Doesn't know the prior prophecies properly, and treats it as self promotion material.
• Doesn't match the character of Yeshua portrayed in the Gospels or in the Tanakh.
• Didn't fulfill the requirements set out in the Tanakh, that need to be fulfilled by said person (Yeshua fulfilled the destruction, and diaspora prophecies to the letter).
• Baha'i quotes from fake sources (parts of the deception), and doesn't have the wisdom to know the difference.

Some of the messages prior can be shown to be correct, as their sums add up with the prophets, the Law, and global prophecy; sorry yet Baha'i just doesn't fit the maths, and thus people with limited knowledge on the subject think it adds up.

In my opinion.

 

[Neb]

I see that pasage as Prophecy of Muhammad and the 12 Imams, the Message of Islam.

Regards Tony

Let’s say this is true, the “twelve princes” were the 12 imams in islam, but can we say also that “For in Isaac shall thy seed be called." -Genesis 21:12 or "And God said, Nay, but Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his seed after him." -Genesis 17:19 and the “SEED” according to Paul is the Lord Jesus? “Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” –Galatians 3:16

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Each individual case should be examined on its own merit...

Baha'u'llah's case fails on numerous reasons:

• Doesn't know the prior prophecies properly, and treats it as self promotion material.
• Doesn't match the character of Yeshua portrayed in the Gospels or in the Tanakh.
• Didn't fulfill the requirements set out in the Tanakh, that need to be fulfilled by said person (Yeshua fulfilled the destruction, and diaspora prophecies to the letter).
• Baha'i quotes from fake sources (parts of the deception), and doesn't have the wisdom to know the difference.

Some of the messages prior can be shown to be correct, as their sums add up with the prophets, the Law, and global prophecy; sorry yet Baha'i just doesn't fit the maths, and thus people with limited knowledge on the subject think it adds up.

In my opinion.

All the accusations the Jews would use against Christ. As stated, if you try to disprove Baha'u'llah by our limited understanding of the Spiritual aspect of all Scriptures, one can only prove false the Messenger they love.

There is so much to offer, but I will let Baha'u'llah now speak to you, this is a small part from the Tablet Baha'u'llah wrote to Pope Pious ix; The Pope Baha'u'llah seized all power from for not heeding this call;

"...Say: O concourse of Christians! We have, on a previous occasion, revealed Ourself unto you, and ye recognized Me not. This is yet another occasion vouchsafed unto you. This is the Day of God; turn ye unto Him. He, verily, hath come down from heaven even as He came down the first time, and He desireth to shelter you beneath the shade of His mercy. He, verily, is the Exalted, the Mighty, the Supreme Helper. The Beloved One loveth not that ye be consumed with the fire of your desires. Were ye to be shut out as by a veil from Him, this would be for no other reason than your own waywardness and ignorance. Ye make mention of Me, and know Me not. Ye call upon Me, and are heedless of My Revelation, notwithstanding that I came unto you from the heaven of pre-existence with surpassing glory. Rend the veils asunder in My name and through the power of My sovereignty that ye may discover a path unto your Lord.

The King of Glory proclaimeth from the tabernacle of majesty and grandeur His call, saying: O people of the Gospel! They who were not in the Kingdom have now entered it, whilst We behold you, in this day, tarrying at the gate. Rend the veils asunder by the power of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bounteous, and enter, then, in My name My Kingdom. Thus biddeth you He Who desireth for you everlasting life. He, verily, is potent over all things. Blessed are those who have recognized the Light and hastened unto it. They, verily, dwell in the Kingdom, and partake of the food and drink of God’s chosen ones.

We behold you, O children of the Kingdom, in darkness. This, verily, beseemeth you not. Are ye, in the face of the Light, fearful because of your deeds? Direct yourselves towards Him. Your All-Glorious Lord hath blessed His lands with His footsteps. Thus do We make plain unto you the path of Him Whom the Spirit prophesied. I, verily, bear witness unto Him, even as He hath borne witness unto Me. Verily, He said: “Come ye after Me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.” In this day, however, We say: “Come ye after Me, that We may make you to become the quickeners of mankind.” Thus hath the decree been inscribed in this Tablet by the Pen of Revelation......"

You should read this "Summons of the Lord of Hosts", it is Baha'u'llahs proclamation to the Kings and Rulers of the earth and starts with the Tablet of the Temple.

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Let’s say this is true, the “twelve princes” were the 12 imams in islam, but can we say also that “For in Isaac shall thy seed be called." -Genesis 21:12 or "And God said, Nay, but Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his seed after him." -Genesis 17:19 and the “SEED” according to Paul is the Lord Jesus? “Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” –Galatians 3:16

You will have to reconsider your stance as Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah fulfill these Biblical Prophecies.

Of course Paul would state Christ also was of the required Seed as Christ was, I agree.

You may ask how the Geneology of Baha'u'llah is known, well the Muslim Sholars had kept the records going, so we can know it is as accurate as any other.

Here is the Geneology of Muhammad

File:Family Tree of Prophets.png - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I will now post a couple of Specific Explanations about Baha'u'llah and Prophecies that are fulfilled to spark more thought for conversation

"The Glory of God

The title "Baha'u'llah" is the Arabic for "Glory of God," and this very title is frequently used by the Hebrew prophets for the Promised One Who is to appear in the last days. Thus in the 40th chapter of Isaiah we read: --

Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord's hand double for all her sins. The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. Isa. xl, 1-5.

Like the former prophecy, this has also been partly fulfilled in the advent of Christ and His forerunner, John the Baptist; but only partly, for in the days of Christ the warfare of Jerusalem was not accomplished; many centuries of bitter trail and humiliation were yet in store for her. With the advent of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, however, the more complete fulfillment dawned for Jerusalem, and her prospects of a peaceful and glorious future seem now to be reasonably assured.

Other prophecies speak of the Redeemer of Israel, the Glory of the Lord, as coming to the Holy Land from the East, from the rising of the sun. Now Baha'u'llah appeared in Persia, which is eastward from Palestine, towards the rising of the sun, and He came to the Holy Land, where He spent the last twenty-four years of His life. Had He come there as a free man, people might have said that it was the trick of an impostor in order to conform to the prophecies; but He came as an exile and prisoner. He was sent there by the Shah of Persia and the Sultan of Turkey, who can hardly be suspected of any design to furnish arguments in favor of Baha'u'llah's claim to be the "Glory of God" Whose coming the Prophets foretold." (Baha'u'llah and the New Era

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is about the Branch

"The Branch

In the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Zechariah are several references to a man called the Branch. These have often been taken by Christians as applying to Christ, but are regarded by Bahá'ís as referring especially to Baha'u'llah.

The longest Bible prophecy about the Branch is in the 11th chapter of Isaiah: --

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. ... righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard ... with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. ... They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. ... And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. -- Isa. xi, 1-12.

Abdu'l-Baha remarks about this and other prophecies of the Branch: --

One of the great events which is to occur in the day of the manifestation of that incomparable Branch, is the hoisting of the Standard of God among all nations; meaning that all the nations and tribes will come under the shadow of this Divine Banner, which is no other than the Lordly Branch itself, and will become a single nation. The antagonism of faiths and religions, the hostility of races and peoples, and the national differences, will be eradicated from amongst them. All will become one religion, one faith, one race, and one single people, and will dwell in one native land, which is the terrestrial globe. Universal peace and concord will be realised between all the nations, and that incomparable Branch will gather together all Israel: signifying that in this cycle Israel will be gathered in the Holy Land, and that the Jewish people who are scattered to the East and West, South and North, will be assembled together.
Now see: these events did not take place in the Christian cycle, for the nations did not come under the One Standard which is the Divine Branch. But in this cycle of the Lord of Hosts all the nations and people will enter under the shadow of this Flag. In the same way, Israel, scattered all over the world, was not reassembled in the Holy Land in the Christian cycle; but in the beginning of the cycle of Baha'u'llah this divine promise, as is clearly stated in all the Books of the Prophets, has begun to be manifest. You can see that form all the parts of the world tribes of Jews are coming to the Holy Land; they live in villages and lands which they make their own, and day by day they are increasing to such an extent, that all Palestine will become their home. -- Some Answered Questions, p. 75-76. )Baha'u'llah and the New Era: Link - Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era: Chapter 13 )

This thread to date has not touched the tip of the iceberg of the Biblical Prophecies fulfilled by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[Deeje]

That was the purpose of the post, many would be surprised if they also found it has happened and they missed it.

The last thing to consider is if Baha'u'llah is not the Message that all wait for, then no Message prior to Baha'u'llah can be proved either. In rejecting Baha'u'llah, the same points of rejection one has used, are the ones that were used to refute all the previous Messages.

You don't seem to understand.....Jesus pointed to no other messenger to come after him. The only other "messenger" to come was John the Baptist and his role was to "prepare the way" for the Messiah, which he did. But he died before Jesus did.

Jesus said that when he returned, his disciples would see certain events taking place in the world that would indicate his "presence" (not his coming) and that he would direct a global witness. (Matthew 24:3-14; Matthew 28:19-20) All the nations would receive this witness (testimony) before "the end" of the age, and that when they actually "saw" him again, it would be as judge and executioner of all who have failed to heed the message about his incoming "kingdom" (government) which will completely destroy and replace all corrupt human rulership. (Daniel 2:44; Revelation 1:7)

If I was looking to go to a certain destination these days, I would use a GPS. The co-ordinates in that system use satillites and are programmed to show me where I am and how to get to my desired destination. Now suppose that a rival system was trying to take over and promote their own system as superior, but the destination they want you to go in will result in you landing in a desert with no water and no way out? Suppose that they have the ability to scramble the data of the existing system to give a false reading, making it appear as if their system is correct and the other is faulty? Suppose the CEO of that company would stop at nothing to achieve his goal....total take over of all 'customers'.

All humans on earth originally started out with the right system and their destination was assured, but a greedy rival wanted to steal them and make them subscribe to his system.....it leads to nowhere but death....but he doesn't care....he just wants to take as many 'customers' with him as he can to thumb his nose at the other company's CEO.

I see Baha'i as promoting the rival system like all the rest....just dished up on a different plate, on a different table. (1 Corinthians 10:21)
It misinterprets scripture to suit the promotion of its prophet who has no credentials whatsoever, and nothing but his own religious system to promote. It requires total faith in a man who died but yet claimed to be Christ returned (when Jesus ascended to heaven was rewarded with immortality, which means that he cannot die again) I believe that your prophet is a fraud.

Jesus taught his disciples to be "fishers of men" but the devil is a fisherman too.....he uses bait and it's very alluring to the uneducated because it taps into what 'tickles people's ears'. (2 Timothy 4:2-7) He has a whole bag full of what people want to hear....and when the bait is taken, many get dragged into something that only makes them feel good.....it doesn't lead to life. They don't know that what they are consuming is deadly poison.

The good part of the Bible's narrative is that, even though the 'dragnet' may scoop up some 'unsuitable' fish, those who are assigned to sort them out will find these, and throw them away. (Matthew 13:47-48) Only the suitable ones are retained. Humans are not the ones doing the sorting, just like the reapers of Jesus' parable are not humans either. (Matthew 13:36-39) All this is carried out by Jesus.

The devil can 'blind people's minds', but only with those who do not want to see. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) But he cannot stop people from learning the truth because it is God who opens people's eyes to see his truth. (John 6:44)

We must all choose according to knowledge and not accept what God does not teach through his word. Your prophets fulfill no Biblical prophesies because they originate from the wrong son of Abraham. You are hamstrung from the get-go. Your co-ordinates are giving you a false reading IMO. But you are free to choose them....like we all are.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You don't seem to understand.....Jesus pointed to no other messenger to come after him. The only other "messenger" to come was John the Baptist and his role was to "prepare the way" for the Messiah, which he did. But he died before Jesus did.

That is not scriptural, it is your interpretation of a few passages. Others are clear Christ will return in a New Name and guide us in the Spirit to all Truth.

Elijah always comes first, that was the Bab (Gate).

Have to go, will comment later.

Regards Tony

 

[Deeje]

That is not scriptural, it is your interpretation of a few passages. Others are clear Christ will return in a New Name and guide us in the Spirit to all Truth.

Elijah always comes first, that was the Bab (Gate).

Have to go, will comment later.

You have nothing new to add.

It's not what you accept that is the problem....it's what you choose to ignore.

Jesus was never to come again as a mortal who was to die twice.

Your origins are not from Isaac...but from Ishmael.....you have the wrong son. Jesus said that "salvation originates with the Jews"....NOT Islam.
There is no way to dispute this without contradicting Jesus.

Jesus told a Samaritan woman...."You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews."

The Samaritans had a rival system of worship and also accepted their own version of Moses' writings. Jesus said they were wrong.

I believe you too worship what you do not know. Your beliefs do not begin with the Jews.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe you too worship what you do not know. Your beliefs do not begin with the Jews.

Then I have to offer this to you;

Matthew 10:14 "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet."

Have a good life, I can tell you that according to what Baha'u'llah has now offered in the Spirit of Christ, that you have committed yourself to this material life with the veil of Names, with this stance.

Stay well and happy, it is still good to know we will share the Love of Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Both of you will be surprised, as I've been sent to explain where you both are in error before the Tribulation...

Yet since both of you ignore the character of Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels to be able to be a Baha'i or a Christian, then it isn't surprising you do not hear where i'm coming from either.

In my opinion.

If Baha'u'llah was the Messiah, then both of you are wrong... In fact all Christians who believe that Yeshua is the Messiah are wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

That was the purpose of the post, many would be surprised if they also found it has happened and they missed it.

Hardly any Christians are going to find it before they die because they insist on their interpretations of scripture. It is really that simple...

A lot of people will be surprised when they die, REALLY REALLY surprised.