Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[Neb]

That is what has happened.

NO! If it did then we, who are left behind are doomed to destruction as 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 is saying.

 

[Muffled]

This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return.

From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

As many await this event, both Christians and Muslims, how did we miss the greatest moment in History to date, would be the over-riding question to consider with this OP.

View attachment 20526

But lets go for a further three options;

What should have we looked for?
What are you still waiting for?
Why are you sitting with popcorn?

I believe the question should be: How can the Bahai's so badly misinterpret scripture?


Mat 24:26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

I believe I wait for Jesus not some man with a different name.

I believe I am working on this site.

 

[Muffled]

It is great to chat to you wizanda, your opinion most welcome. That is what this is about, my hope is that we can explore those opinions with a quote to consider;



Do you expect them to be all Material happenings, or do you think there could also be a spiritual aspect to them as well?

This is what Baha'u'llah has said on some of this; I will be using the Kitab-i-quan for most explanations.

"This is the purpose underlying the symbolic words of the Manifestations of God. Consequently, the application of the terms “sun” and “moon” to the things already mentioned hath been demonstrated and justified by the text of the sacred verses and the recorded traditions. Hence, it is clear and manifest that by the words “the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven” is intended the waywardness of the divines, and the annulment of laws firmly established by divine Revelation, all of which, in symbolic language, have been foreshadowed by the Manifestation of God........It is unquestionable that in every succeeding Revelation the “sun” and “moon” of the teachings, laws, commandments, and prohibitions which have been established in the preceding Dispensation, and which have overshadowed the people of that age, become darkened, that is, are exhausted, and cease to exert their influence....."




What do you see this age will include?



Yes all Gods Faiths await the time when the Most Great Peace is promised. Baha'u'llah is the one they all await. Shoghi Effendi has given this thought;

"To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the “Everlasting Father,” the “Lord of Hosts” come down “with ten thousands of saints”; to Christendom Christ returned “in the glory of the Father,” to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha." Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

This is not my opinion - This is what I believe, it is all written and I just share

Regards Tony

I believe I would qualify that as nonsense. He undoubtedly was talking off the top of his head.

 

[Muffled]

I read his Seven Valleys and Four Valleys many years ago and have nothing but respect for him, he was truly a saint, no doubt about it. He reminds me of Ramana Maharshi in this respect. Both of these men brought valuable teachings into the world but it's up to the capacity of the individual to comprehend their teachings. Most will fall short and only get as far as worshiping, rather than internalising.

I believe he might have had some good ideas along the way but there is too much drivel to wade through to get to it. I find that true of yogis as well.

 

[wizanda]

According to Tanakh, the Christ had to appear at the Second (now gone) Temple. Who is the Christ, then?

Oh I agree Yeshua fulfilled the prophecies before the 2nd temple destruction, and the diaspora was because of his rejection (Luke 19:41-44)....

What i was saying is what came after is false (Christianity John, Paul, Simon), and then Baha'i copied the false bits, rather than the real bits; which proves they don't know what is going on.

In my opinion.

 

[Fool]

I believe the question should be: How can the Bahai's so badly misinterpret scripture?


Mat 24:26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

I believe I wait for Jesus not some man with a different name.

I believe I am working on this site.

you wouldn't see it coming, nor going. it would happen in a flash.

so how are you going to experience someone as an electrical charge that lasts............ roughly 30 microseconds?

When the two connect, an electrical current flows as negative charges fly down the channel towards earth and a visible flash of lightning streaks upward at some 200,000,000 mph (300,000,000 kph), transferring electricity as lightning in the process.


don't blink, you might miss it?

 

[wandering peacefully]

One of the main disagreements I have with the Baha'i Faith is precisely this concept of a religion possessing the blueprint for society on earth: that is, the governing body of one religion actually legislating as part of the juridical regime of a future global commonwealth or polity. As Baha'u'llah contends in one of his tablets:

"All matters of State should be referred to the House of Justice, but acts of worship must be observed according to that which God hath revealed in His Book."

(Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh)​

The Universal House of Justice is the executive body of the Baha'i religion and Shoghi Effendi further explained that it will become the: “supreme legislative body of the future Bahá'í Commonwealth” (Shoghi Effendi, Messages to the Bahá'í World, p. 149). Bahá'u'lláh's statement that: "All matters of State should be referred to the House of Justice ... " is now printed with the Aqdas, in Other Sections, page 91. Its position in the Kitab-i Aqdas, "the Charter of the future world civilization", "this Most Holy Book, whose provisions must remain inviolate for no less than a thousand years, and whose system will embrace the entire planet" is somewhat disconcerting to me.

'Abdu'l-Bahá expanded further upon Bahá'u'lláh's establishment of the Universal House of Justice:

“He [Bahá'u'lláh] has ordained and established the House of Justice, which is endowed with a political as well as a religious function, the consummate union and blending of church and state. . . . Its rulings shall be in accordance with the commands and teachings of Bahá'u'lláh, and that which the Universal House of Justice ordains shall be obeyed by all mankind. This international House of Justice shall be appointed and organized from the Houses of Justice of the whole world"
​

'Abdu'l-Bahá explained that the “Universal House of Justice, likewise, wardeth off all differences and whatever it prescribeth must be accepted and he who transgresseth is rejected.” Shoghi Effendi likewise concurs by arguing that when "the majority of the peoples of a number of the Sovereign States of the world" accept the Baha'i Revelation, "the Universal House of Justice will attain the plenitude of its power, and exercise, as the supreme organ of the Bahá'í Commonwealth, [with] all the rights, the duties, and responsibilities incumbent upon the world's future super-state.”

This is not in keeping, I should think, with liberal secularism here in the West. We have long advanced beyond the stage of allowing religious dignitaries, authorities and legal codes to dictate secular life and politics.

A vast, all-powerful religious government (that only men and not women can be elected to, I should add) covering the entire planet and passing authoritative legal judgements based upon a scriptural text written in 19th century Iran, that are binding on every country and the conscience of all people is not an inviting prospect; nor one which is likely to enlist the enthusiastic support of a substantial number of modern, educated people IMHO.

As Denis MacEoin, a scholar of Islamic and Middle Eastern studies, stated the Bahá'í Faith has a "long-term aim of establishing theocratic rule in Iran and throughout the world".(See his 'The Shi'i establishment in Modern Iran', in Denis MacEoin and Ahmed Al-Shah (eds), Islam in the Modern World, London etc. Croom Helm, 1983)

It is a most unfortunate and antiquated doctrine for an otherwise progressive religion to espouse, in my humble assessment, if this understanding of mine represents an accurate analysis.

This is something that has always made me curious about followers of Bahai. Whenever any of them are questioned about the actual verbage in the grand plan of the charter or the actual practices they are to follow in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, they don't seem to want to respond in any manner which address the questions directly.

 

[Fool]

Oh I agree Yeshua fulfilled the prophecies before the 2nd temple destruction, and the diaspora was because of his rejection (Luke 19:41-44)....

What i was saying is what came after is false (Christianity John, Paul, Simon), and then Baha'i copied the false bits, rather than the real bits; which proves they don't know what is going on.

In my opinion.

The Qumran Community and the Gospel of John

 

[wizanda]

The Qumran Community and the Gospel of John

Thanks for the link...

The problem with that is, it hasn't established that John is detrimentally misrepresenting Yeshua's character in numerous occasions, compared with the Synoptic Gospels...

Thus equating light and dark ideologies as a reason to think John was Essene, is something we find in almost any religion around the world, thus it isn't a logical premise to build from....

It is like asking is the Gospel of John Gnostic for the same reasons.

John to me is written by the Sanhedrin, as it is detailed in that area; knowing private conversations between them, and hearsay evidence of what the Sanhedrin thought about Yeshua.

In my opinion.

 

[Fool]

Thanks for the link...

The problem with that is, it hasn't established that John is detrimentally misrepresenting Yeshua's character in numerous occasions, compared with the Synoptic Gospels...

Thus equating light and dark ideologies as a reason to think John was Essene, is something we find in almost any religion around the world, thus it isn't a logical premise to build from....

It is like asking is the Gospel of John Gnostic for the same reasons.

John to me is written by the Sanhedrin, as it is detailed in that area; knowing private conversations between them, and hearsay evidence of what the Sanhedrin thought about Yeshua.

In my opinion.

the naassene were gnostic and essene. jesus was an essene. he is never shown offering any sacrifice except the breaking of the bread and the offering of the wine.

ESSENES - JewishEncyclopedia.com

as are the syrian malabar nasrani

http://www.anglicanfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Saint-Thomas-Paper.pdf

 

[wizanda]

jesus was an Essene.

Yeshua and John the Baptist both taught concepts we find from the Essenes, the idea of God providing everything, Baptism, and that we are Children of Light.

When Yeshua said be aware of the Leaven of the Pharisees & Sadducees; Essene bread has no leaven.

Including an arch angel in a religion isn't viable, as their knowledge is beyond that of only a partial aspect of the religious comprehension...

Angels don't fit in boxes.

In my opinion.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

The signs are all there in the Bible that He has returned.

Except for, you know, the world being destroyed by censer-wielding angels.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A very good question, one that is vital that we understand!

Thank you for your thoughts. It is great you are looking into this issue. I can only suggest you read what Baha'u'llah has to say.

I wish you well and happy.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If the only aspect is Baha'i teaching that Martyrism is equivalent to sainthood, this is also faulty like the Catholic church teaches, due to many blunders in translation, and exegesis.

In my opinion.

You have many thoughts that are your own, as we all do. The key in life is to find out which thoughts are inspired by God and which are from our own selves.

I wish you well on that journey we all face.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't said all Hadithes are fake,but it's verified that the Hadithes about return of Jesus(pbuh) and anti-Christ are just copy/paste from Bible.

It is an important subject, one we need to study with Justice and in earnest.

There are posts on RF that quote all the Hadith

I wish you always well, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

i have no idea what you're attempting to convey in this post, except the particular article. I gave it a summary glance and gave up.

would you like to offer a short synopsis of the work?

Many await the building of a 3rd Temple as a sign of the end of the ages. God has build that temple in that of a Human, it was Baha'u'llah and this has filled those Prophecies.

"...Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Follow ye His bidding, and praise ye God, your Lord, for that which He hath bestowed upon you. He, verily, is the Truth. No God is there but He. He revealeth what He pleaseth, through His words "Be and it is". This can be found in the Summons of the Lord of Hosts - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 96-138

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You need to remember that this Babi group was a revolutionary, insurrectionist group of apostates dedicated to the overthrow of the existing government, a potentially violent group who carried weapons, with proven murderous intent against even heads of state.

Pure and utter Rubbish.

You need to read the intent of those that accepted this Message, you need to read their explanations as to what happened. I can not do that for you.

Regards Tony

 

[wizanda]

You have many thoughts that are your own, as we all do. The key in life is to find out which thoughts are inspired by God and which are from our own selves.

We have objectively verifiable facts that we can all check; then we have subjective ideas...

The religious texts which came before Baha'i, can be checked to see what should be prophetically.

As for me hearing God, and intermingling that with textual analysis, this is what God said last time:

'Knowledge is found at the end of your nose, wisdom is found at the bottom of your toes; seek too much of man's knowledge, and you won't see your toes, as your nose grows.'

In my opinion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I view the Bahai's as a force for good, and as Jesus is quoted in the gospels "He who is not against me is for me." I await Christ's return, however I am not a traditional Christian and am more of a facsimile, a sort of mutt with a combination background from multiple Christian factions. I have no apostolic line, no ordination, no real accomplishments, nothing at all to show except for myself. I do not await the return of a man flying down from the sky but the revitalization and renewal of Jesus hopes and the answer to his prayers. This is the return of Christ according to my best attempts to grasp it.

Good on you, I love your heart and share this quote with you;

"O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting." Baha'u'llah Hidden Words - The Hidden Words

Many await a man, and that is a tragedy I think. There is no use pointing fingers about who has caused this confusion. It has been caused by us, by our own nature casting a shadow in the light. I am not speaking of the light here in the sense like in John in the Christian Bible and not in the Quaker sense but in the sense its referred to in James in the Christian Bible. The former talks about and uses light to represent something (Logos) that comes and dwells among us, but the latter which I am referring to talks about and uses light to refer to wisdom and life like it is a pure fountain or like the continual shining of the sun which gives us birth we who must be shined through rather than out of. In this light we have cast a shadow, and so there is no one to blame about all of the misunderstandings about Christ's return. In the sense of the former, our inner light has been somewhat covered, dimmed, controlled. Like fire it has been smoldering to run out of control, just looking for an opening.

They are sound thoughts to have on this topic. The Light will always guide us the more we give our worldly self to the service of all Humanity. We are told it is within us and this is what is good and evil. We choose to live the virtues of light or we darken them with self and greed.

This is another topic in itself and I wish you well searching for the source of this Light within.

Personally I do not think Christ has returned just yet, and I sometimes wonder if Christ will. Christ will, however. Nothing will stop Abraham's vision. If the lampstands be removed that is still not the end, just a realization.

This is something only you can find, it is never an event that will produce mass conversion, it is an event for each heart to make a choice. With that I share a 2nd quote that is important;

"O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes". Hidden Words Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

NO! If it did then we, who are left behind are doomed to destruction as 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 is saying.

The answer to that is in acceptance of the event or the rejection of the event. Rejection means we are still here.

Regards Tony