Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[oldbadger]

There is also no official translation of the Bayan, so please yourself oldbadger. This is the official statement to what you mention;

Shoghi Effendi's secretary wrote on his behalf:

"...The severe laws and injunctions revealed by the Báb can be properly appreciated and understood only when interpreted in the light of His own statements regarding the nature, purpose and character of His own Dispensation. As these statements clearly reveal, the Bábí Dispensation was essentially in the nature of a religious and indeed social revolution, and its duration had therefore to be short, but full of tragic events, of sweeping and drastic reforms. These drastic measures enforced by the Báb and His followers were taken with the view of undermining the very foundations of Shí'ah orthodoxy, and thus paving the way for the coming of Bahá'u'lláh. To assert the independence of the new Dispensation, and to prepare also the ground for the approaching Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh the Báb had therefore to reveal very severe laws, even though most of them, were never enforced. But the mere fact that He revealed them was in itself a proof of the independent character of His Dispensation and was sufficient to create such widespread agitation, and excite such opposition on the part of the clergy that led them to cause His eventual martyrdom. (from a letter dated February 17, 1939 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, quoted on p 214 of the Most Holy Book)

The Laws in the Bayan were never initiated, as they were subject to the approval of the One Whom God would make Manifest, which was Baha'u'llah. They served their purpose. The old age was terminated with the Bayan and a new Age prepared, it had to be this way as prophecy shows us;

Zephaniah 1:14 “That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes— a day of bitter tears, a day when even strong men will cry out.15 It will be a day when the LORD ’s anger is poured out— a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness,16 a day of trumpet calls and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and the strongest battlements!17 “Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you grope around like the blind. Your blood will be poured into the dust, and your bodies will lie rotting on the ground.”18 Your silver and gold will not save you on that day of the LORD ’s anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth.

More about the day of the Lord - BibleGateway.com -

It was Baha'u'llah that set the Law and Standards for the Day of God, those laws that now beat the swords into plowshares.

This is An Analytical Survey by Muhammad Afnan on the Báb's Bayan. The Báb's Bayan

Stay happy Regards Tony

You see?
Baha'i just won't translate the parts that it doesn't want the people to see, and writes long winded deceptions to avoid facts.
I'll offer some more translations when I get the time.

 

[wizanda]

I understand, but I would want proof of that, how it is that billions of people have been taken in for centuries by false writings, how such is God's will, and how it is that I find that the apostles' doctrine is solely Tanakh based and found in Jesus Christ.

What is God's will? According to many eschatologies, it is to remove the ravenous ungodly, for a time of Godliness on earth.

So preemptively to all of this, according to Isaiah 8 the Lord (Immanuel) will come, and be a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense to everyone in someway, as it will present a riddle as Isaiah 29:9-14 says.

Thus tho many think they're wise, as they follow their leaders, and scholars approach to exegesis; what if the whole direction was wrong to begin, and they haven't understood some of the basics properly.

Why would God allow it? As it tests who is true, by those who naturally face the right direction, and refuse the hypocrisy.

It is true Simon, and Paul sound very much similar, badly quoting odd lines out of context like a Pharisee; with John adding Hellenized Gnosticism into the Sanhedrin's impressions of Yeshua.

In my opinion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

but since we are still here [not doomed, but still alive], then Christ's 2nd has not occurred yet, right?

Christ answered that with, "Let the dead bury the dead."

This life is death if we do not accept the returned Christ. If you have been shown it has happened and again rejected Christ, the same pasage is applicable.

We must be born again.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Rejection means doomed to destruction immediately [based on 2nd Thessalonians 2], i.e., after all Christians “be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air”. -1Thessalonians 4:17, but since we are still here [not doomed, but still alive], then Christ's 2nd has not occurred yet, right? So your OP is suggesting that Christ’s 2nd coming “has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord")” is false.
You can’t mix Bible verses with your philosophy because it will only create confusion because of contradictions.

I do not mix anything. Baha'u'llah is the fulfillment.

Material learning and material eyes is always deceptive. In this matter we must give our heart to God and put all our trust in God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You see?
Baha'i just won't translate the parts that it doesn't want the people to see, and writes long winded deceptions to avoid facts.
I'll offer some more translations when I get the time.

What I see oldbadger is that you have a mindset you wish to pursue.

That mindset was not that of the Bab or Baha'u'llah, their aim was the Peace and Security of all Humanity under our One God.

God always gives his message amongst those that will reject and persecute the Mesengers, why? Because it shows the power of Gods Word to triumph over the ungodly.

To that point, you now know why America was chosen as the main point in the West to receive the Message.

Both Persia and America have amazing spiritual futures, they will be shining lights, but they also have the most to loose, both still have populations with mindsets clinging to National temporal power and many steeped in religious dogma.

Stay safe and happy, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I understand, but I would want proof of that, how it is that billions of people have been taken in for centuries by false writings, how such is God's will, and how it is that I find that the apostles' doctrine is solely Tanakh based and found in Jesus Christ.

Baha'u'llah answered that for us;

"...Whatever in days gone by hath been the cause of the denial and opposition of those people hath now led to the perversity of the people of this age. To maintain that the testimony of Providence was incomplete, that it hath therefore been the cause of the denial of the people, is but open blasphemy. How far from the grace of the All-Bountiful and from His loving providence and tender mercies it is to single out a soul from amongst all men for the guidance of His creatures, and, on one hand, to withhold from Him the full measure of His divine testimony, and, on the other, inflict severe retribution on His people for having turned away from His chosen One! Nay, the manifold bounties of the Lord of all beings have, at all times, through the Manifestations of His divine Essence, encompassed the earth and all that dwell therein. Not for a moment hath His grace been withheld, nor have the showers of His loving-kindness ceased to rain upon mankind. Consequently, such behaviour can be attributed to naught save the petty-mindedness of such souls as tread the valley of arrogance and pride, are lost in the wilds of remoteness, walk in the ways of their idle fancy, and follow the dictates of the leaders of their faith. Their chief concern is mere opposition; their sole desire is to ignore the truth....."

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

You see?
Baha'i just won't translate the parts that it doesn't want the people to see, and writes long winded deceptions to avoid facts.
I'll offer some more translations when I get the time.

As you and I both know from past experience all too well, this entire thread isn't a debate at all, but about using the Debate section as an excuse to proselytize Bahai beliefs. With that, I'm out. Been there, done that, someone else have a go at it.

 

[oldbadger]

What I see oldbadger is that you have a mindset you wish to pursue.

It might be better if you answer the post rather than make suggestions about the poster.
I could have said the same about you.

That mindset was not that of the Bab or Baha'u'llah, their aim was the Peace and Security of all Humanity under our One God.

I was quoting the Bab!

God always gives his message amongst those that will reject and persecute the Mesengers, why? Because it shows the power of Gods Word to triumph over the ungodly.

Do Bahais often focus upon more receptive groups and countries?

Both Persia and America have amazing spiritual futures, they will be shining lights, but they also have the most to loose, both still have populations with mindsets clinging to National temporal power and many steeped in religious dogma.

Stay safe and happy, Regards Tony

Please name one country or people that is not steeped either/or in religious dogma or national temporal power?

Bahai is steeped in both religious dogma AND a wish for UNIVERSAL POWER, through its theocracy.

 

[Neb]

Christ answered that with, "Let the dead bury the dead."

This life is death if we do not accept the returned Christ. If you have been shown it has happened and again rejected Christ, the same pasage is applicable.

We must be born again.

Regards Tony

Don't change the subject. We are still talking about the 2nd coming of Christ.

Please read these verses again from the Bible.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;" -1Thessalonians 4:16
"then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -1Thessalonians 4:17

It's very clear that on Christ 2nd coming, Christians will be “be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” -1Thessalonians 4:17

It did not specifically say that it was Baha’u’llah who would come for the 2nd time.

Rejection means doomed to destruction immediately [based on 2nd Thessalonians 2], i.e., after all Christians “be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air”. -1Thessalonians 4:17, but since we are still here [not doomed, but still alive], then Christ's 2nd has not occurred yet, right? So your OP is suggesting that Christ’s 2nd coming “has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord") is FALSE

This is about the promise of Christ Return.

From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

 

[oldbadger]

As you and I both know from past experience all too well, this entire thread isn't a debate at all, but about using the Debate section as an excuse to proselytize Bahai beliefs. With that, I'm out. Been there, done that, someone else have a go at it.

Hello again......... I left the Great Beings thread weeks ago and never returned.
This is a similar thread, looks like a Bahai sell. 'Christ Has returned' stuff.... that must give members the right to challenge, but, sure, I get bored with it all....

 

[Neb]

I do not mix anything. Baha'u'llah is the fulfillment.

Material learning and material eyes is always deceptive. In this matter we must give our heart to God and put all our trust in God.

Regards Tony

NO! baha'u'llah is not in the Bible. Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí, aka, Baha’u’llah, a Persian Shi'ite, came from Ishmael and NOT from Isaac.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As you and I both know from past experience all too well, this entire thread isn't a debate at all, but about using the Debate section as an excuse to proselytize Bahai beliefs. With that, I'm out. Been there, done that, someone else have a go at it.

Yes this thread is about Baha'ullah, is who He claims to be or Not.

Of course that will cause debte, but what better position can one have, than to have all the Answers provided by Christ as promissed.

Good to see you by the way

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Bahai is steeped in both religious dogma AND a wish for UNIVERSAL

The Baha'i have no desire for any power but that of a unified Humanity working together for the common good.

Yoi already know man will still rule. Baha'u'llah has left the affairs of mankind to themselves.

Baha'u'llah has aked only for our hearts to live in peace and justice.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;" -1Thessalonians 4:16

That was Baha'u'llah. I was dead in Christ, I now love Christ with all my heart and Soul.

All that accept Baha'u'llah accept all Messengers as One.

Fulfilled.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

NO! baha'u'llah is not in the Bible. Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí, aka, Baha’u’llah, a Persian Shi'ite, came from Ishmael and NOT from Isaac.

Then neither is Jesus. Prove that statement false, you have made our case.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

This is a good thing, it allows us never rest but always strive to do better. Each day build on our virtues and strive to serve all humanity more and more, each in our given capacity.

In the end that is all we can do.

Regards Tony

I could not have said it better... We each do what we can do, one day at a time.

Nobody knows what we will be able to do after we die, although we do have some indications of what we won't be able to do...

40: O MY SERVANT! Free thyself from the fetters of this world, and loose thy soul from the prison of self. Seize thy chance, for it will come to thee no more. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 36

 

[Neb]

Then neither is Jesus. Prove that statement false, you have made our case.

Regards Tony

Baha'u'llah is a made-up mythical god and not in the bible. The Lord Jesus is in the Bible. Make your own book about baha'u'llah.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I could not have said it better... We each do what we can do, one day at a time.

Nobody knows what we will be able to do after we die, although we do have some indications of what we won't be able to do...

40: O MY SERVANT! Free thyself from the fetters of this world, and loose thy soul from the prison of self. Seize thy chance, for it will come to thee no more. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 36

Currently I see that it must be a Unity we are yet to understand. We may be like an atom that is part of the sun. All the colours of the virtues are seen as the source of white light, we become part of the light.

We lost our little dog at midnight last night. She had had some operations and did not come out of them well. We buried her this morning with memories that only a sweet liveable dog can give. My wife loves pets as you do.

As I know this subject is dear to your heart. I think they are a gift to teach us virtues we require in our animal condition. Each pet we care for adding to the virtues we can carry forward with. In that way they are always with us.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'u'llah is a made-up mythical god and not in the bible. The Lord Jesus is in the Bible. Make your own book about baha'u'llah.

Good thing is I have the Word of Christ and the Word of Baha'u'llah which is the Word of God freely available and can make up my mind on this matter.

With them available, the Gospel according to Neb is death and to be avoided. It is only fair I share that with you.

Have a very happy life, it is short and it ends.

I will always wish you well and strong and prosperous Faith, Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

How do Christians expect to recognise Christ as no one knows what He looks like? That’s why Christ said to ‘watch and pray’ because His coming would not be obvious unless one is spiritually minded.

You think too much like a Baha'i....
If you were a Christian you would know that it will just be obvious when Jesus comes. This is how they will recognize Jesus:

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I am not making this up, I have heard it from more than one Christian. Nothing else will do except a dramatic show in the sky. This video is very relevant to what I am saying:

Also, it has to be the same man Jesus because of what it says in Acts 1:10-11. The fact that Baha'u'llah is not the same man Jesus rules him out automatically. However, they do have trouble explaining why Jesus would have a new name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

However, since they await the literal fulfillment then He will never ever come for those Christians because Christ was speaking symbolically not literally.

Not only do they await the literal fulfillment, they expect each and every verse to unfold exactly as it is written, every detail. Obviously, this is completely illogical, because scriptures are not like an instruction manual on how to repair a car or a cookbook on how to bake a cake.