Christian democratic

[BenTheBeliever]

You don't hear those two words often with each other. But as a Christian I strongly believe in The Democratic party. I also strongly believe in equal rights. Christ was never about forcing his ideas on people so I strongly feel the same way. I believe free will means just that. Free will. The right to decided our life. The right to decided if you believe or not in God.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

You don't hear those two words often with each other. But as a Christian I strongly believe in The Democratic party. I also strongly believe in equal rights. Christ was never about forcing his ideas on people so I strongly feel the same way. I believe free will means just that. Free will. The right to decided our life. The right to decided if you believe or not in God.

Move to Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Democratic_Union_of_Germany

More seriously, there are major strands within the Republican party, like libertarians, that are strict constitutionalists and very keen on liberty as a fundamental right of American citizens, or the Libertarian Party itself for that matter. What makes you think the Democrats are better at ensuring freedom than these other groups?

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Move to Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Democratic_Union_of_Germany

More seriously, there are major strands within the Republican party, like libertarians, that are strict constitutionalists and very keen on liberty as a fundamental right of American citizens, or the Libertarian Party itself for that matter. What makes you think the Democrats are better at ensuring freedom than these other groups?

Cause all Republicans want to do is take away people's rights. I know a lot and I mean a lot of Republicans and they are all the same. They force their ideas on people. They don't want to give gays rights or women rights to decided if they want to have an abortion or not. They want to take away the freedom that each American should have.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Cause all Republicans want to do is take away people's rights. I know a lot and I mean a lot of Republicans and they are all the same. They force their ideas on people. They don't want to give gays rights or women rights to decided if they want to have an abortion or not. They want to take away the freedom that each American should have.

Constitutionalists, even like Ted Cruz, would leave issues like gay marriage to the states to decide. On the issue of abortion, that would depend on whether the unborn is a person, in which case he or she would have their own rights to bear, I don't think any Republicans are out to get women, but sincerely believe the unborn are real persons who have their own freedoms and their own right to life and liberty.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Constitutionalists, even like Ted Cruz, would leave issues like gay marriage to the states to decide. On the issue of abortion, that would depend on whether the unborn is a person, in which case he or she would have their own rights to bear, I don't think any Republicans are out to get women, but sincerely believe the unborn are real persons who have their own freedoms and their own right to life and liberty.

When it comes to the issue of abortion I believe it is the woman's right. If a woman is rapid or a young teenage girl is rapid they should have the right to decided to keep it or not. Yet so many people would rather give baby more rights then the mother. As a fellow human being even before I became a born again I could not stand behind the idea of forcing someone to do something they would not want to do. But if people like Trump win we can kiss our daily rights goodbye.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

When it comes to the issue of abortion I believe it is the woman's right. If a woman is rapid or a young teenage girl is rapid they should have the right to decided to keep it or not. Yet so many people would rather give baby more rights then the mother.

How about equal rights as the mother, and what does that look like? Should one human have more rights than another because they are more developed, more intelligent, more able?

As a fellow human being even before I became a born again I could not stand behind the idea of forcing someone to do something they would not want to do. But if people like Trump win we can kiss our daily rights goodbye.

Democrats force people to pay taxes, and many would want to increase those taxes.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

How about equal rights as the mother, and what does that look like? Should one human have more rights than another because they are more developed, more intelligent, more able?


Democrats force people to pay taxes, and many would want to increase those taxes.

Proof that Democrats want to do that? So you would be okay with forcing a young teenager to have the baby if the teen was raped? you would make them go through that?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Proof that Democrats want to do that? So you would be okay with forcing a young teenager to have the baby if the teen was raped? you would make them go through that?

Rapes make up a very small percentage of abortions. Are you saying you're opposed to non-rape abortions? (And many Republicans, including Trump, support abortions in cases of rape)

And on Democrats raising taxes, both Bernie and Hillary would raise taxes one way or another:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/03/pf/taxes/hillary-clinton-taxes/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...hillary-clinton-on-middle-class-tax-increases

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Rapes make up a very small percentage of abortions. Are you saying you're opposed to non-rape abortions? (And many Republicans, including Trump, support abortions in cases of rape)

And on Democrats raising taxes, both Bernie and Hillary would raise taxes one way or another:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/03/pf/taxes/hillary-clinton-taxes/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...hillary-clinton-on-middle-class-tax-increases

Taxes get raised no matter what. I am for the woman's right to decided no matter what. If she choses to have an abortion it is no one else business.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Taxes get raised no matter what. I am for the woman's right to decided no matter what. If she choses to have an abortion it is no one else business.

Okay, so that goes back to my earlier question. Is the baby's rights equal to the mother's? If not, does another human have more rights because they are more intelligent, developed, or able?

 

[bobhikes]

You don't hear those two words often with each other. But as a Christian I strongly believe in The Democratic party. I also strongly believe in equal rights. Christ was never about forcing his ideas on people so I strongly feel the same way. I believe free will means just that. Free will. The right to decided our life. The right to decided if you believe or not in God.

I consider myself an American Christian my politics fluctuates but I believe in complete separation of Religion and Government and that Christ expects his disciples to teach and practice his teachings not enforce them.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

How about equal rights as the mother, and what does that look like? Should one human have more rights than another because they are more developed, more intelligent, more able?


Democrats force people to pay taxes, and many would want to increase those taxes.

My reasoning on abortion was , is it fair to bring another child into a world that doesn't really want it . I think its something only the mother can decide , if she doesn't want it ,is a problem .Unless is adoptive parents on a waiting list to care for the newborn , incarceration and force her through the pregnancy , is only so much we can do.
Should never happen in theory and most mums that abort probably face a lifetime of trauma as circumstances change .
Has be the mums choice imho she could force natural miscarriage but I think is "better" is handled proffesionaly .
In bigger picture stuff dieing all the time , not like it would tip the balance or anything .
If I had never been born would I miss it ?
Don't think I would ,lol .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Constitutionalists, even like Ted Cruz, would leave issues like gay marriage to the states to decide.

IOW, he outsources the denial of rights to others.

On the issue of abortion, that would depend on whether the unborn is a person, in which case he or she would have their own rights to bear, I don't think any Republicans are out to get women, but sincerely believe the unborn are real persons who have their own freedoms and their own right to life and liberty.

You aren't the first person to say this, but I don't believe it because it doesn't mesh with the facts. There are any number of policies that would reduce abortions that, if the Republicans supported them, could easily pass, but they apparently don't care to support them.

The Republican position on abortion is bizarre if we assume it's based on protecting "the unborn", but reconciles perfectly with it being about punishing women for having sex that they disapprove of.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay, so that goes back to my earlier question. Is the baby's rights equal to the mother's? If not, does another human have more rights because they are more intelligent, developed, or able?

If we granted equal rights to the woman and fetus, the woman would still have every right to end the pregnancy at any time, just as a bone marrow donor has the right to say "stop - no more" halfway through the course of bone marrow donations, even if the recipient will surely die as a result.

Bodily security is a right we even grant to corpses: if you say "no" to organ donation and then die, your organs will be buried with you regardless of how many lives your decision costs.

I've yet to hear an argument for why we should give pregnant women fewer rights than corpses, or why fetuses are magical beings that deserve far greater rights than normal humans, but you need to make at least one of those cases to deny a woman the right to an abortion based on the rights of the fetus.

 

[David1967]

Cause all Republicans want to do is take away people's rights. I know a lot and I mean a lot of Republicans and they are all the same. They force their ideas on people. They don't want to give gays rights or women rights to decided if they want to have an abortion or not. They want to take away the freedom that each American should have.

I was with you on your first post but now you are unfairly generalizing a very diverse political party. There are pro choice republicans, libertarian republicans, conservative republicans and even gay (log cabin) republicans. On the same note I know many democrats that are very conservative. Both parties are made up of people that have many diverse opinions.

 

[Sunstone]

If we granted equal rights to the woman and fetus, the woman would still have every right to end the pregnancy at any time, just as a bone marrow donor has the right to say "stop - no more" halfway through the course of bone marrow donations, even if the recipient will surely die as a result.

Bodily security is a right we even grant to corpses: if you say "no" to organ donation and then die, your organs will be buried with you regardless of how many lives your decision costs.

I've yet to hear an argument for why we should give pregnant women fewer rights than corpses, or why fetuses are magical beings that deserve far greater rights than normal humans, but you need to make at least one of those cases to deny a woman the right to an abortion based on the rights of the fetus.

^This.

 

[Mister Emu]

As a Christian, I can't in good faith be a true supporter of any American party that I know of. Both major parties celebrate death on all levels from physical to intellectual to spiritual.

Cause all Republicans want to do is take away people's rights.

Oh honey, no.

Republicans(or rather legal libertarians) believe that the only proper human authority of law arises from the people. When the judges declared rights for privacy(and thus abortion) and homosexual marriage, they correct in outcome or not, usurped the proper power of the people to do so. Those judgements are illegitimate attacks against every citizen of the country. Homosexuals and abortionists included.

If a woman is rapid or a young teenage girl is rapid they should have the right to decided to keep it or not. Yet so many people would rather give baby more rights then the mother.

Very few people do not believe that there should be legal consideration to rape. Also, it is a minuscule portion of abortions that are performed for rape and medical reasons(~6% for both combined last I checked).

You aren't the first person to say this, but I don't believe it

It must be nice to live in a fantasy world where the people who disagree with you are all really liars who are hiding dastardly motives, and not just people who believe different things about what is right.

 

[Sunstone]

It must be nice to live in a fantasy world where the people who disagree with you are all really liars who are hiding dastardly motives, and not just people who believe different things about what is right.

I notice you have chosen not to address his argument, but merely to characterize him as living in a fantasy world, etc. Is this sort of illogical attack something you respect in others if and when they do it to you? Is it how you yourself prefer to be treated?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It must be nice to live in a fantasy world where the people who disagree with you are all really liars who are hiding dastardly motives, and not just people who believe different things about what is right.

It doesn't take any fantasizing to think about the actual outcomes of Republican policy and recognize that they can't be reconciled with their purported goals.

Of course, I don't think that all Republicans are "dastardly"; I'm open to the possibility that some (many? most?) have simply bought into the rhetoric and not thought too deeply about the consequences of the policies they support.

I also recognize that there are some Republicans who realize the abortion-encouraging consequences of the Republican platform and either are okay with them or vote Republican despite these consequences because they consider other aspects of the party platform to be more important.

But it's still the case that if we sat down with a blank piece of paper and asked ourselves "what policies should we support to decrease the number of abortions as much as possible?", we would end up with something that's nothing like the current Republican platform.

 

[Mister Emu]

I notice you have chosen not to address his argument, but merely to characterize him as living in a fantasy world, etc. Is this sort of illogical attack something you respect in others if and when they do it to you? Is it how you yourself prefer to be treated?

The next time I burrow into the muck and call those who disagree with me liars hiding nefarious purposes instead of engaging them I will deserve exactly what I've given here.

Sad that you would defend that and attack me.

It doesn't take any fantasizing to think about the actual outcomes of Republican policy and recognize that they can't be reconciled with their purported goals.

But it does take your pretendo-land super powers or unchecked arrogance to assume you know the real motivation.

Of course, I don't think that all Republicans are "dastardly"; I'm open to the possibility that some (many? most?) have simply bought into the rhetoric and not thought too deeply about the consequences of the policies they support.

So are you backing off your BS that any significant percentage is against abortion to punish women for sex?