Christian pacifism.

[CEMB]

If the only way I could put out a fire was with petrol then I would use petrol.
To extend the point, our society regards petrol as the best way to extinguish fires. This misguided belief has been shown time and again to be flawed yet people cling to it. We could you fire extinguishers but people don't trust them.
Non-violence is effective. For a full account of why this is so Kurlansky is well worth a look.

I agree non-violent resistance is effective. But not in all situations.

 

[Sleeppy]

I agree that most people have a conscience and feel guilt for their wrong deeds, and eventually listen to their conscience or suffer if they refuse to heed it. We are bound by our morality. The conscience is the voice of the soul. But not all people are like this. Psychopaths feel no guilt for committing wrong and have no conscience. They are damaged. They have no physical response to witnessing the suffering of others. Their hearts don't miss a beat. Gandhi believed non-violent resistance would have even stopped Hitler and the Nazis. Maybe, but how many million Jews, Gypsies, Slavs etc. would have had to die before the killing stopped. God has placed a moral responsibility upon each of us to protect those who cannot protect themselves. If we refuse to do this then we will feel guilt and our conscience will make us see the truth, whether we want to see it or not. And then as you say we will be 'dead men [and women] walking around'.

The healthy have an obligation to provide examples of healthy habits, and to medicate those who are ill, including the mentally diseased. It serves the healthy to spread health, so that health is maintained; if the healthy were to allow, or ignore the spread of disease, health itself becomes endangered exponentially. Warring against Hitler was not the only option, or even the best option; preventing Hitler was the very first and most effective option. Hitler amassed power through wordplay and propaganda. He manipulated the ignorant. Education and example are the very best methods of preventing and defeating leaders like Hitler. Billions or even trillions spent on weaponry (could have been and) can be spent on humanitarian infrastructure, which is prevention, and defense. Instead of dropping bombs and shooting rifles and tank artillery, drop incentives and shoot alternatives. Cure the root of the problem, or wait for the root to recreate the problem. Not only has the root not been taken care of, but Hitler's example has spread all over the world. In reality Hitler is still winning, and people like the Jews, Gypsies, and Slavs exist worldwide, even in the US and in Israel.

 

[Estro Felino]

It only applies when invoked ex cathedra. Look it up.

o my God...and I bet you will say that when it happens, the Holy Ghost automatically descends and enlightens the Pope, right?

 

[Glaurung]

o my God...and I bet you will say that when it happens, the Holy Ghost automatically descends and enlightens the Pope, right?

It is not the man himself who is infallible, but the office of the Roman Pontiff which by the guarantee of the Holy Spirit cannot fall into error when the conditions of ex cathedra are met. This has only happened a handful of times in the entire church history, with the most recognised instances of infallibility being the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary.

In no instance was anything new arbitrarily added to the deposit of faith. (The Pope has no such authority) but already accepted beliefs of the Church officially defined. All the Pope can do infallibly, is to more readily define what has already been revealed to the Church.

 

[JayJayDee]

The healthy have an obligation to provide examples of healthy habits, and to medicate those who are ill, including the mentally diseased. It serves the healthy to spread health, so that health is maintained; if the healthy were to allow, or ignore the spread of disease, health itself becomes endangered exponentially. Warring against Hitler was not the only option, or even the best option; preventing Hitler was the very first and most effective option. Hitler amassed power through wordplay and propaganda. He manipulated the ignorant. Education and example are the very best methods of preventing and defeating leaders like Hitler. Billions or even trillions spent on weaponry (could have been and) can be spent on humanitarian infrastructure, which is prevention, and defense. Instead of dropping bombs and shooting rifles and tank artillery, drop incentives and shoot alternatives. Cure the root of the problem, or wait for the root to recreate the problem. Not only has the root not been taken care of, but Hitler's example has spread all over the world. In reality Hitler is still winning, and people like the Jews, Gypsies, and Slavs exist worldwide, even in the US and in Israel.

Excellent post Sleepy. :clap
Why is it that most people never see the wisdom in this approach? Prevention is so much better than trying to find a cure. But there is no profit in prevention so those greedy for power and wealth continue to milk the ignorant masses and foment war.

The general population have been manipulated through ignorance and clever propaganda for centuries. But we are living in an age of knowledge, where there is no longer an excuse for ignorance. The powers that be still depend on the same old tactics that have worked down through the centuries and it appears that humanity in general never learns from the lessons of history and are thus doomed to repeat them.

Isn't it time to wake up? :yes: If all the money spent on war was dedicated to saving lives instead of taking them, imagine what the world could be like? There would be no starvation, no refugees, no shortage of medical supplies or doctors or hospitals because they would not be filled with the war wounded.

Hatred is fuelled because it makes money for those who supply arms. People's hatred and emotions are milked to make others rich whilst the disadvantaged do not know if they will get their next meal. If all those who enjoy their wealth contributed their excess to supporting the disadvantaged by educating them from childhood, much of the poverty we see could be extinguished.

Education is the key. If you want to see why, watch the documentary "Waiting for Superman". It will open your eyes to what can be done, but isn't.

Waiting for Superman | Documentary Film online - Cosmos Documentaries | Watch Documentary Films Online

Then you have to ask why man will never bring about the needed changes. If man won't, then God must.

 

[CEMB]

Excellent post Sleepy. :clap
Why is it that most people never see the wisdom in this approach? Prevention is so much better than trying to find a cure. But there is no profit in prevention so those greedy for power and wealth continue to milk the ignorant masses and foment war.

The general population have been manipulated through ignorance and clever propaganda for centuries. But we are living in an age of knowledge, where there is no longer an excuse for ignorance. The powers that be still depend on the same old tactics that have worked down through the centuries and it appears that humanity in general never learns from the lessons of history and are thus doomed to repeat them.

Isn't it time to wake up? :yes: If all the money spent on war was dedicated to saving lives instead of taking them, imagine what the world could be like? There would be no starvation, no refugees, no shortage of medical supplies or doctors or hospitals because they would not be filled with the war wounded.

Hatred is fuelled because it makes money for those who supply arms. People's hatred and emotions are milked to make others rich whilst the disadvantaged do not know if they will get their next meal. If all those who enjoy their wealth contributed their excess to supporting the disadvantaged by educating them from childhood, much of the poverty we see could be extinguished.

Education is the key. If you want to see why, watch the documentary "Waiting for Superman". It will open your eyes to what can be done, but isn't.

Waiting for Superman | Documentary Film online - Cosmos Documentaries | Watch Documentary Films Online

Then you have to ask why man will never bring about the needed changes. If man won't, then God must.

I think we should be careful about believing education automatically leads to peace. Educated people start most wars.

A question I have, however, is how would you, personally, change things to improve society and humanity? What practical steps do you believe an individual can take?

 

[Sleeppy]

I think we should be careful about believing education automatically leads to peace. Educated people start most wars.

A question I have, however, is how would you, personally, change things to improve society and humanity? What practical steps do you believe an individual can take?

Education is only part of the solution.. Giving comfort and health would be an even more important piece to the puzzle. So all we can do individually is educate people on the importance of treating each other as equals, promote equal opportunity in the job markets, proper compensation for work, and be charitable above all. When people don't feel hopeless and threatened, they'll be peaceful and generous.

 

[adi2d]

The notion "Christian pacifism" is meaningless.
Because all Christianity is implicitly pacifist. I don't know any Christian denomination which is not pacifist.

The song "sky pilot" ran through my mind when I read your post



Even Billy Jack would fight for the right cause

 

[CEMB]

Education is only part of the solution.. Giving comfort and health would be an even more important piece to the puzzle. So all we can do individually is educate people on the importance of treating each other as equals, promote equal opportunity in the job markets, proper compensation for work, and be charitable above all. When people don't feel hopeless and threatened, they'll be peaceful and generous.

I agree with much of what you say here, particularly treating others as equals and charity. However, I believe people yearn for meaning, for a purpose, but for most people work does not provide this purpose. Work/labour can be satisfying, yes, but not provide the sense of purpose they need. And thus when people hope to find this sense of purpose in their work and don't then they lose hope. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Tarheeler]

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