Christian: The Need for a Fresh Word from God

[lunamoth]

I think that there are prophets today and that, with the voice of the Holy Spirit, they are speaking acting and moving all the time. But, like God in the OT, we only recognize them in hindsight. Prophets don't predict the future, they tell us what is true.

The Holy Spirit is at work in the world and though it is a messy process, I believe we continue to move overall toward living out the will of God. I've used the analogy of a sailboat before, but I think it is a good one. The Holy Spirit is the Wind of God; if we choose to we can set our sail and try to use that Wind to move toward God. But, we don't go straight there, we tack left, we tack right, we get our ropes in a bunch and end up off course, but if we remain intentional we eventually move in the right direction.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

I haven't figured out yet how an omnipresent, invisible essense can move. Move to where?

I like the question. It shows you are thinking.

Omnipresence implies unity, but it does not imply immobility. Here again I come to the analogy of the Father being the light on the other side of the cosmic prism. That light includes will, which acts as sort of a prism. (Mormons have the Book of Mormon and I have The URANTIA Book. Although its status is questionable, the UB has given me some valuable insights and I know you respect that.)

Total, infinite reality is existential in seven phases and as seven co-ordinate Absolutes:
1. The First Source and Center.
2. The Second Source and Center.
3. The Third Source and Center.
4. The Isle of Paradise.
5. The Deity Absolute.
6. The Universal Absolute.
7. The Unqualified Absolute.
UB, P. 7

 

[blackout]

I haven't figured out yet how an omnipresent, invisible essense can move. Move to where?

As I see it...
God moves within "himself"...
as all things exist IN HIM.
We live and move and breathe together.
He is the Living "Sea" I swim in ...
and the "atmosphere" of impossible possibility...
that reveals the "ever newness"...
the "glory unto glory"...
the ever changing and unfolding reality...
that WE create together.

As such...
God literally "moves things around" in my life all the time!
It's an awesomeness to behold!
"He" is the greatest master of timing and humor!
The Supernatural re-arranger of "matter"& "circumstance".
Do you not find this so as well?

When things in your reality move
in mindbending syncronicity...
and "impossible probability"....

"who" (as a christian) do you suppose it it...
doing all the "heavy" "lifting"?!

 

[!Fluffy!]

Or God could be dead.

or maybe, dear a_e, you are wondering if YOU are dead. :sad4: Your posts sort of shocked me because I was under the impression you were a pastor? Before you react, please read the following post. if you are truly and honestly pursuing this line of reasoning, ask yourself if you really believe god exists and confront all the possibilities honestly. your own salvation depends on the answer doesn't it... is that not what you have (at least in the past) preached from the pulpit? if so how could you do it without feeling as though you were indulging in the worst kind of hypocrisy?

The woman at the well... the lame and sick who were miraculously healed... Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus... those who witnessed Lazarus rising from the tomb... I am sure all of these people thought they knew themselves and understood the world around them until they had personal first hand encounters with Jesus. It was usually AFTER a miraculous touch, word, look, or experience that they were consumed with a desire to know him.

it was the same way with me. ask a converted drug addict, crack whore, convicted felon or any one of the millions of us yanked from death's grasp who call Him Lord and Savior which came first, understanding or belief? Most of us will tell you there is no way a logical adult with an average IQ could accept the miracles of the NT or the Gospel without having first been SAVED PERSONALLY and infused with the kind of insight we can only thank the holy spirit for.

just my 2c,
!Fluffy!

if your personal relationship with Christ isn't REAL, you need to confront that and demand answers from God especially if you are representing yourself to the world as Christ's ambassador. He is the only one who can answer you with any authority. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[Diogenes]

Of course we would all like to hear something new breathed into Christianity. But as for prophecy the question is: Do we reallly want to hear it? Usually we prefer what is already pleasant to what is confrontational. Another question remains here: Are we truly enlightened? Perhaps we have simply delved deeper into darkness and have mistaken it for light. The wars and atrocities of the last century certainly stand as witnesses against our modern enlightenment.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

or maybe, dear a_e, you are wondering if YOU are dead. :sad4: Your posts sort of shocked me because I was under the impression you were a pastor? Before you react, please read the following post. if you are truly and honestly pursuing this line of reasoning, ask yourself if you really believe god exists and confront all the possibilities honestly. your own salvation depends on the answer doesn't it... is that not what you have (at least in the past) preached from the pulpit? if so how could you do it without feeling as though you were indulging in the worst kind of hypocrisy?

The reasoning is simply thus:

If God were not speaking, acting, and moving, then it is possible that God is dead.

I have not argued that God does not speak, but merely that if God didn't then it would be possible that God were not alive.

 

[rojse]

I'm currently in the third year of a phd program in New Testament, and my 11th year of study. The more I review and study the New Testament, the more I believe that it is completely and utterly insane to apply it with authority to the church today.

The New Testament is set firmly and completely in a social context that is misogynic, ethnocentric, and philosophically backward. I don't mean to argue that the present popular philosophy Western life - that there is no need for God due to existentialist realivism - is superior, but philosophy and social changes from the Enlightenment are significant progress from the blantant stupidity of Aristotle and Plato that birthed and nurished Christian theology.

I'm quite sure that if Arisotle and Plato had known about the scientific progresses made in the Enlightenment that Christianity would be much more friendly to women and homosexuals, and possibly Christianity would have had the forsight to condemn slavery and pederasty as early as the writing of the New Testament.

Anyway, the New Testament profoundly loses its worth when the presuppositions of Greek philosophy are removed, and indeed the later Christian theologies which wholesale reproduced Greek ideals are outdated and mute to contemporary issues.

It is time for a new word from God, and Christians should beg God to send modern prophets to speak fresh words of redemption and grace.

Contrasting two thousand year old thought and philosophy to today's thought is quite unfair. We are standing on the shoulders of great thinkers and philosophers, and we are able to review and learn from all of their work. What did Aristotle and Plato have to work with? What philosophers of merit were there before them that they could study and learn from?

If a person claimed to be a prophet spreading the word of God, would you believe him, particularly if it varied quite a lot from traditional Church doctrine/dogma? What about if much of your church distanced themselves from this person, considering the ingrained idea that revelation does not occur any more? What if this person belonged to a completely different religious branch? Or was from another religion altogether, such as Islamic, or Hindu, or so forth?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Contrasting two thousand year old thought and philosophy to today's thought is quite unfair.

It most certainly is! Particularly so when wackos are trying to force the Bible - an ancient text that is the product of "two thousand year old thought and philosophy" to today.

We are standing on the shoulders of great thinkers and philosophers, and we are able to review and learn from all of their work. What did Aristotle and Plato have to work with? What philosophers of merit were there before them that they could study and learn from?

Not much... as I read the Socratics and pre-Socratics, I am astonished by both their knowledge as well as by their stupidity. Aristotle - thankfully - revised much of Plato, but unfortunately it never caught on. The pre-Socratics are mostly only available to us in fragments, and although I've read all of them, I'm not one to reconstruct everything off the cuff. It's not much, though... but it's in poetry and its exquisite.

If a person claimed to be a prophet spreading the word of God, would you believe him, particularly if it varied quite a lot from traditional Church doctrine/dogma? What about if much of your church distanced themselves from this person, considering the ingrained idea that revelation does not occur any more? What if this person belonged to a completely different religious branch? Or was from another religion altogether, such as Islamic, or Hindu, or so forth?

I dunno. That's the fun part.

On that note, this is a Christian only forum... if you don't consider yourself a Christian, you're only allowed to read here.

 

[!Fluffy!]

The reasoning is simply thus:

If God were not speaking, acting, and moving, then it is possible that God is dead.

I have not argued that God does not speak, but merely that if God didn't then it would be possible that God were not alive.

Okay.

Does God speak?

Is God alive?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I'm currently in the third year of a phd program in New Testament, and my 11th year of study. The more I review and study the New Testament, the more I believe that it is completely and utterly insane to apply it with authority to the church today.

The New Testament is set firmly and completely in a social context that is misogynic, ethnocentric, and philosophically backward. I don't mean to argue that the present popular philosophy Western life - that there is no need for God due to existentialist realivism - is superior, but philosophy and social changes from the Enlightenment are significant progress from the blantant stupidity of Aristotle and Plato that birthed and nurished Christian theology.

I'm quite sure that if Arisotle and Plato had known about the scientific progresses made in the Enlightenment that Christianity would be much more friendly to women and homosexuals, and possibly Christianity would have had the forsight to condemn slavery and pederasty as early as the writing of the New Testament.

Anyway, the New Testament profoundly loses its worth when the presuppositions of Greek philosophy are removed, and indeed the later Christian theologies which wholesale reproduced Greek ideals are outdated and mute to contemporary issues.

It is time for a new word from God, and Christians should beg God to send modern prophets to speak fresh words of redemption and grace.

You seem to view that the Bible is devoid of any inspiration from God. Ergo, I am not surprised that you would hold the view the worldly influence calls for a revision of God's word.

 

[Scuba Pete]

It most certainly is! Particularly so when wackos are trying to force the Bible - an ancient text that is the product of "two thousand year old thought and philosophy" to today.

Loving your neighbor is simply timeless. You can "force" that on anyone, at any time and under any circumstance.

Unfortunately, hate and intolerance are touted by many and support is vainly sought under the scriptures.

I would LOVE to see this commercial;

World Trade Center: 2,996
Afghan War: 102,345
Iraqui War: 1,085,134
Forgiving your enemies: Priceless

This is why an eye for an eye can never work: Too many Shrubs in this world who merely use religion to justify the horror. If you do the math, we are way over 300 Iraqi eyes and teeth for every American one. The idiocy of all this, is that Iraq had NOTHING to do with the 9/11 attack. We could NEVER claim to be a Christian nation, until the hypocrites learn to turn the other cheek.

 

[Bathsheba]

I'm sure there is a nice smiley cult out there that will suit your demands.

Ew, ew, ew...I want to be the high priestess of that cult.

:drool:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

You seem to view that the Bible is devoid of any inspiration from God. Ergo, I am not surprised that you would hold the view the worldly influence calls for a revision of God's word.

No, actually I do have a theory of inspiration that for the time being I call incarnational. That is, like person of Christ who is fully God and fully human, I believe that the inspiritation of Scripture is fully divine and fully human. This unity continues today.

 

[Lazarus]

i totally disagree with the pretext of this thread- as a prophet of Christianity- if you study this religion you will not receive anything- but to uus who are of the kingdom of heaven - the world has already-
As for Greek philosophy- remember there is wisdom and there is the "little wisdom which is called the wisdom of death- be wise and do not presumptiously deem Christian thought backward without considering the things which are above- I will have more to say on this later-

 

[Mister Emu]

In my twisted thought world, I think that there is some room in Christian orthodoxy for this. In both the East and West, Holy Tradition supplements Scripture, allowing for prophesy to continue.

I would just like to note, from what I know, that there is no room for modern public revelation within the Roman Catholic system...

What tradition are you talking about, and what is it needed for?

Sacred Tradition and the fullness of the truth...

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I would just like to note, from what I know, that there is no room for modern public revelation within the Roman Catholic system...

I disagree. It depends on where the public revelation comes from. The Roman Catholic system is extremely open to the idea of God offering a fresh word to the people through the established system (eg., through the Pope) and recognizes when God speaks outside of the system.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

***MOD POST***​

Thread re-opened for debate. Several off-topic posts have been deleted. Please continue with the spirit of civility and respect. Thank you.​

Peace,
Mystic​

 

[Katzpur]

I disagree. It depends on where the public revelation comes from. The Roman Catholic system is extremely open to the idea of God offering a fresh word to the people through the established system (eg., through the Pope) and recognizes when God speaks outside of the system.

Surely you're not saying that the Pope could announce that God has spoken to him and revealed some new doctrine.

 

[Lunarscribe]

Surely you're not saying that the Pope could announce that God has spoken to him and revealed some new doctrine.

No the Pope can only make infallable doctrine or dogma when speaking ex-cathedra or from the seat of Peter. To do that he would have to wite an encyclical have the cardnals agree with him, the encyclical has to adhear to the bible and the holy traditions of the Church, then it comes into effect for a "trial period" basicly its a suggestion of the Pope at that time. If the Layity believe the suggestion has the truth of the Holy Spirit to it, and most Catholics are in agreement with the suggestion, the Pope may then speak ex-cathedra. However if the Pope simply wants to suggest that Catholics look at something closer or pray harder on a specific day without putting it in an encyclical, most Catholics will generaly comply; but to change core beliefs and dogma thats a bit harder.

 

[longshanks]

in my own time i will not be recognised, or revered or listened to.
i will be ridiculed and my words cast aside by all except a few, this is the reality of the modern prophet.