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Christianity and Christian Scriptures.

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
2Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
All Scripture is useful, but it doesn't say that Scripture alone is useful for these things.

Romans 15:4 For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope
Referring to the writings of the Prophets and the history of the people of Israel and the Law, against those who would reject the Old Testament as irrelevant. St. Paul is saying that the Old Testament is still useful for our instruction, and we don't need to get rid of any of it.

2 Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place (until day dawns and a daystar rises) in your hearts.
Yes, we hold to what is written in the Scriptures, but this doesn't say to hold exclusively to what was written down and eventually canonized as the Bible.

The first century christians needed only the scriptures and teaching of the Apostles. They didnt need anything besides these.
None of the verses you quoted gives support to this idea. Yes, Scripture is useful and God-inspired, no denying that. But there is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says we should use the Bible alone. In fact, we see the Bible urging us to also hold to the traditions which were not written down in the Bible in 2 Thessalonians 2:25.

The concept of Sola Scriptura is nowhere to be found in the entire Bible--not a single verse supports it.

All these things are very good and noble, but they are not the things Christ asked christians to pursue.
Yes they are. Do you forget the parable of the sheep and the goats?

Let me just give you a little illustration. . .

Thats how i see the church... great job on the housework, but not a lot of follow through on the actually Job Jesus gave his disciples.
Did this have a point? What do you see the mission of the Church as being, if not spreading the Gospel, shepherding the flock, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, taking care of the sick, taking in the stranger, visiting those in prison, loving God, loving one another, and letting our light so shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father Who is in Heaven (Matthew 5:16)?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I always wondering if I am the only person who has noticed this. I have been pretty sure in these past 31 years since I first became a Christian that had to be others, like me, who read the Bible first and then became a Christian (I also read a good share of the Tanach (Old Testament) before I went to Church), who also read it before and noticed this kind of thing.

Is there any Christian here at the RF who has noticed this kind of thing? (I am sure their is, but...). If it is true, then what can we do about it?
I can relate, but in a different sort of sequence. I had sought out the Christian church following a deep and lasting spiritual awakening in my youth and converted to the religion to further and deepen an understanding of God. Of course, like all religions who claim they have the truth and all others are lost and deceived for the last 2000 years, I was taken in by their confidence and boasts. I devoured the scriptures, seeking for knowledge of God. But what I found being explained to me was inconsistent with my experience that awakened me to spiritual reality.

After graduating one of their Bible Colleges with a degree in theology on a path into the ministry, the theological house of cards finally collapsed, and I withdrew from seeking truth in their ranks, sending a 66 page letter to my pastor explaining the reasons behind my departure to him. In time, after distancing myself from the entire system, I came to re-open to that spiritual depth in myself without the dictates of their external system. And to your point, I now find myself amazed at how much depth there is in the scriptures, but few if any of these churches, especially those who claim to have the "correct translations", or some other such special prophet or other who revealed the truth, get what is in its universal simplicity.

The entire thing is a matter of whether one approaches Truth as some external thing dictated by an authority, or if it's something we simply awaken to and it becomes a living truth that cannot, nor should be chiseled in stone, codified in doctrines, or canonized in authorized books. All that misses the mark by infinity.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Did this have a point? What do you see the mission of the Church as being, if not spreading the Gospel, shepherding the flock, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, taking care of the sick, taking in the stranger, visiting those in prison, loving God, loving one another, and letting our light so shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father Who is in Heaven (Matthew 5:16)?

yes, the scriptures do say that a christian should do such things... but it doesnt say you can make a business out of it.

When you attend a catholic school, how much does it cost? When you attend a catholic run hospital, how much does it cost? When you need to bury your dead, how much does it cost? when you want to get married, how much does it cost?

When charity is given for a price, it can no longer be considered charity.

Is just a business which earns no merit with God.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I don't think the trouble is with scripture, but with the interpretation of scripture. 10 people can read a verse and each get something different from it. How do we know who is correct? Does anyone ever do a consensus about interpretation, I've always been under the impression that is how it was done, but now I am not too sure. Too many of we Christians want to be the one who has the "correct" interpretation and it has always been that way. That is probably why there are so many denominations of our faith.

Of course, it can also depend on which translation you read, what language you read it in, and so on.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't think the trouble is with scripture, but with the interpretation of scripture. 10 people can read a verse and each get something different from it. How do we know who is correct? Does anyone ever do a consensus about interpretation, I've always been under the impression that is how it was done, but now I am not too sure. Too many of we Christians want to be the one who has the "correct" interpretation and it has always been that way. That is probably why there are so many denominations of our faith.

Of course, it can also depend on which translation you read, what language you read it in, and so on.

Is it not possible, according to you, that someone along the line that copied scripture got something different from it than what the writer intended?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think that saying "I don't think the trouble is with scripture" and saying people who copied it had their own perspective, is contradictory. If someone copying it but who had a different perspective than what the holy spirit caused to be written and he wrote it his way, that is trouble with scripture. Isn't it?
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I think that saying "I don't think the trouble is with scripture" and saying people who copied it had their own perspective, is contradictory. If someone copying it but who had a different perspective than what the holy spirit caused to be written and he wrote it his way, that is trouble with scripture. Isn't it?

I think you might be reading a little too much into what I had said. I was trying to make a point that people will read something, ANYTHING, and get something different out of it. I wasn't speaking of mistakes during copying and/or translating, really, that would be a different point altogether.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think you might be reading a little too much into what I had said. I was trying to make a point that people will read something, ANYTHING, and get something different out of it. I wasn't speaking of mistakes during copying and/or translating, really, that would be a different point altogether.

I started a thread about it. Care to contribute? :)
 

nasheayahu

Natsariym of Yah'usha
The writings of Yahuah and Yahusha were written to the Seed of Abraham! Not Christians!

And Yahuah only speaks to His people and especially those who have returned back to the Covenant and the Turah.

No such thing called the Christian Scriptures! This is why you people are confused and come up with different ways of reading.

The original Christians were the Yahudiym from Crete:

G2912
Κρής
Krēs
krace

From G2914; a Cretan, that is, inhabitant of Crete: - Crete, Cretian

Pronouce as Christian.

Acts 2:1-11 The Scriptures 1998+ (1) And when the Day of the Festival of Weeks had come, they were all with one mind in one place.
...
..
.
(5) Now in Yerushalayim there were dwelling Yehud?im, dedicated men from every nation under the heaven. (6) And when this sound came to be, the crowd came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

(7) And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying to each other, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? (8) “And how do we hear, each one in our own language in which we were born?

(9) “Parthians and Medes and ?ylamites, and those dwelling in Aram Naharayim, both Yehud?ah and Kappadokia, Pontos and Asia, (10) both Phrygia and Pamphulia, Mitsrayim and the parts of Libya around Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Yehud?im and converts,

(11) “Cretans and Arab?s, we hear them speaking in our own tongues the great deeds of Elohim.”

v(11) Cretans!

No other such people existed in our land other then the Yahudiym! You people were born from the Reformation of the Religion of the Roman Empire not Yashra'al (Yisra'el).
 
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Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The original Christians were the Yahudiym from Crete:



Pronouce as Christian.



v(11) Cretans!
Since you quoted from Acts to prove your interesting point, here's another quote from Acts since you take it as authoritative that contradicts you:

And he left for Tarsus to look for Saul; and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. Now at this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch.…

Antioch is in Turkey, not Greece. And what's more, Christian simply means little Christ, and it was a derogatory term at first applied by detractors to those who followed Jesus as the Christ. It has zero to do with a bastardization of the word Crete.

And furthermore, the entire core of all Christian teachings is to eliminate these claims to bloodlines, which is what your argument tries to reintroduce. "There is neither Greek nor Jew but all are one in Christ".
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
When I decided to go to a Church, I was quite surprised on how much different what I read was from what I was taught in said Church. It seemed almost like a whole different faith than the one I read about in the four gospels and even in Paul's and the other's epistles.
I don't know why I didn't notice this thread until now, but it's definitely a worthwhile topic to discuss. I'm curious, though as to whether you can provide me with even a couple of examples of what you're refering to.
 

nasheayahu

Natsariym of Yah'usha
Since you quoted from Acts to prove your interesting point, here's another quote from Acts since you take it as authoritative that contradicts you:

One, you will never catch me in a contradiction! Never! I know my history and the matters of Yahuah my Father and Alahiym of Abraham!

And he left for Tarsus to look for Saul; and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. Now at this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch.…

Secondly, wouldn't you have thought I would have known about this when my statement has to do with clearing up who are the real Christians? And, Acts 11:26 has nothing to do with naming a new people of Yahuah Alahiym of Yashra'al! Yahuah's people will always be called Yashra'al which means: “to strive with Al, to overcome with Al, (then) to rule with Al”

י – he, שׂרה - contend with, אל – Mighty One;

Its the name He placed over His people in whom He as chosen to be His inheritance by the Covenant He made with our father Abraham NOT by Your Circle (Church) Fathers! His people will never be called Christians NOR Little Christs; No such person, persons or people in our history or culture ever existed and will never exist! The Yahudiym who lived in Crete (Κρήτη: Krētē, kray'-tay) were not titled Christians for any belief system, it just means “people of Crete (Κρήτη: Krētē, kray'-tay)”, That's all and Very simple. Got it?

So listen up carefully, because this will be very easy to explain about the tamidiym; The Taught Ones of Yahusha. And the proper Hebrew transcription to the English is:

Acts 11:25-26 The Scriptures 1998+ (25) Then Barnabah went to Tarsos to seek Sha’ul, (26) and having found him, he brought him to Antioch. And it came to be that for an entire year they came together in the assembly (Not Church (Circle): never existed in our land! This is a Druid Religious symbol for the mark of the Beast!) and taught large numbers. And the taught ones were called ‘Messianites (משיחיים)’ first in Antioch

Notice it was said, “THE TAUGHT ONES WERE CALLED” NOT the assembly. These were the 12 tamidiym plus other's Yahusha Taught to go out and find the Lost Sheep of Yashra'al as well as train more to do the same.

משיחיים (mashı̂yachiym) comes from the Hebrew word משׁיח (mashı̂yach), which comes from משׁח (mashach): Anointed Ones (people anointed by Yahusha to teach) - Anointed – Anoint

The Greek equivilent to the Hebrew word: Χριστιανός(khris-tee-an-os') – Χριστός(khris-tos') – χρίω(khree'-o)

Again, nothing to do with naming a new people! Just these selected Yahudiym of Yahusha who are Anointed by Him to to bring the Basorah (Good News) to His people about their redemption, return to the Covenant and the Way of the Turah which is the Way of Yahuah our Alahiym. The Kahan and the Leaders were responsible for being an example and teaching His people to follow the Righteousness of Yahuah, then the parents teach there children at home. This is the Hebrew Culture in whom Yahuah taught us how to live before the Babylonians. Which includes you confused and ignorant modern day Christians of the Roman Empire who are using are Writings to promote your Babylonian Religion.

Antioch is in Turkey, not Greece.

I don't care if it was in New York City! Were talking about the Greek word used that was translated from the Hebrew.

And what's more, Christian simply means little Christ, and it was a derogatory term at first applied by detractors to those who followed Jesus as the Christ. It has zero to do with a bastardization of the word Crete.

Modern day made up name and religion. You can't use are Writings to create a religion NOR a people for our Alahiym; Who is the Author of the Writings you are using! Get your own writings!

And furthermore, the entire core of all Christian teachings is to eliminate these claims to bloodlines, which is what your argument tries to reintroduce. "There is neither Greek nor Jew but all are one in Christ".

Yea, your Babylonian Religion does that. The tamidiym Writings were not written to you, they were written to the Seed of Abraham. And the Greeks they were referring to were the Seed of Abraham who were born among the Babylonians (Roman Empire). And the Greek word used is Ελλην – Hellēn – hel'-lane and it was referring to the Greek speaking Hebrews who were living in the East of the Roman Empire where all the Greek speaking people lived. Not the whole world, Not You or anyone else! You people love deception, being deceived, deceiving others, lies and not disclosing the full truth. Lie + Truth = Lies!

Got it?
 
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Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
One, you will never catch me in a contradiction! Never! I know my history and the matters of Yahuah my Father and Alahiym of Abraham!
You have achieved perfection! :thud:

Secondly, wouldn't you have thought I would have known about this when my statement has to do with clearing up who are the real Christians? And, Acts 11:26 has nothing to do with naming a new people of Yahuah Alahiym of Yashra'al! Yahuah's people will always be called Yashra'al which means: “to strive with Al, to overcome with Al, (then) to rule with Al”

י – he, שׂרה - contend with, אל – Mighty One;

Its the name He placed over His people in whom He as chosen to be His inheritance by the Covenant He made with our father Abraham NOT by Your Circle (Church) Fathers! His people will never be called Christians NOR Little Christs; No such person, persons or people in our history or culture ever existed and will never exist! The Yahudiym who lived in Crete (Κρήτη: Krētē, kray'-tay) were not titled Christians for any belief system, it just means “people of Crete (Κρήτη: Krētē, kray'-tay)”, That's all and Very simple. Got it?
Oh yes, I've got it very clearly now (which was already clear before). Your views are completely centered on bloodlines, and it's pure tribalism. I find that very view utterly contradicted by all the teachings of the New Testament, in practically every verse. Unless you reject the writings of Paul, James, Peter, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc?

I reject tribalism. You embrace it.

So listen up carefully
Or else.....? What? You sound very threatening with talk like this.

Again, nothing to do with naming a new people! Just these selected Yahudiym of Yahusha who are Anointed by Him to to bring the Basorah (Good News) to His people about their redemption
Oh dare I ask what this good news about your redemption is? I'll be spared death if I convert?

This is the Hebrew Culture in whom Yahuah taught us how to live before the Babylonians. Which includes you confused and ignorant modern day Christians of the Roman Empire who are using are Writings to promote your Babylonian Religion.
You have no idea what my beliefs are.

Modern day made up name and religion. You can't use are Writings to create a religion NOR a people for are Alahiym; Who is the Author of the Writings you are using! Get your own writings!
My such vehemence! So many exclamations points in your writings! "Get your own writings!" I hear as "Die, you infindes!" I don't know about you but I prefer the path of love over forced conversions.

Yea, your Babylonian Religion does that. The tamidiym Writings were not written to you, they were written to the Seed of Abraham.
And what is all this worth if you have not love? I assume you've read these scriptures you complain are yours and not others? Maybe those teachings don't exist in your version? Maybe they were cut out with a knife, or hacked out with a machete?

Not the whole world, Not You or anyone else! You people love deception, being deceived, deceiving others, lies and not disclosing the full truth. Lie + Truth = Lies!
Your point has been made. Then I must sincerely ask, why on earth are you here on this website which forbids intolerance and proselytizing? Are you here to declare war?

Indeed. Quite clear.
 
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