Christianity Continues Decline in America: Pew Survey Results

[leibowde84]

A reason for what?

A reason why people would comment on a thread that they did not care about at all.

Unless they were trolling of course.

 

[viole]

The current atheist movement accepts the position of matieralism without question and many are becoming as fundamentalist as the religions they criticize.

Maybe true, but the symmetry does not hold. We are surrounded by material things and no sane people would ask evidence of them. That does not apply for spiritual entities; where are they?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I care about it. To give a very brief explanation of why, it has to do both with my own felt need to reconcile my religious impulses, experiences, ethics, and general perspective with science, reason, the plurality of religions and cultures, and etc. The Pew polls seem to demonstrate empirically something that I feel in my own experience, that the Christian institutions in the US are (speaking broadly) failing in some way to address the issues that are important in our culture. They are failing to make the tradition meaningful, especially to younger Americans. To the extent that I feel that within Christianity there are perspectives that are worth preserving, it worries me. To the extent that I feel that the largest obstacle to handing down those traditions in a meaningful way are the churches themselves as institutions, I think the "rise of the nones" is a good thing. In any case, the polls point to fairly rapid changes in our culture concerning issues that are important to me, both for myself but also in the part of my life that I wish to share with others.

I think part of the problem is that American Christianity is largely expressed, or seems to be largely expressed in the public consciousness, in vapid ways. You have the post-modernism of the liberal mainline denominations such as Episcopalianism with their desperation to accommodate every leftist/progressive "feel good/do what you want" impulse, then you have the megachurches with their equally vapid money worship and self-help nonsense and then you have the angry religious right with their portents of gloom, doom and hellfire. Obviously that's not working and is leaving people feeling empty and pushed away. People need beauty, compassion, structure and substance. American Christianity is largely a failure in those areas. But what do you expect in a shallow, capitalist society where substance went out the window decades ago.

As for me, I just shrug. This is to be expected, since we are living in a dark age (no, I don't mean the "End Times", necessarily, just a state of cultural decline). I'm not losing my faith in God and His Church. We've been through much worse.

 

[MD]

Maybe true, but the symmetry does not hold. We are surrounded by material things and no sane people would ask evidence of them. That does not apply for spiritual entities; where are they?

Ciao

- viole

What's your evidence that I have subjective experience?

Empiricism cannot account as the only way to view the world.

 

[viole]

What's your evidence that I have subjective experience?

Empiricism cannot account as the only way to view the world.

Who knows? For sure we hold most of the shares.

Ciao

- viole

 

[leibowde84]

The current atheist movement accepts the position of matieralism without question and many are becoming as fundamentalist as the religions they criticize.

But anyways I am derailing the thread, this is about Christianity's decline more than philosophical perspectives.

You are wrong. The atheistic movement is merely prudent. There is no requirement for an active belief that God cannot exist, only a lack of belief in the existence of God. Atheists are merely not willing to take the monumental leaps of faith associated with the belief that God exists.

 

[George-ananda]

It is to me obvious that as education and information in a society increases, greater numbers will 'think for themselves' and disregard the importance of their family's historical religious affiliation. Churches no longer provide the important social structure they once provided. I also see the rise of concepts that were once considered 'new age' and 'eastern' as exposure to new ideas grows.

I think the interesting question is what the trends are for what people do believe (beyond just the decline of older institutions). The old question of 'Christianity vs. Atheism' is now more complicated and more are choosing none of the above.

 

[Marisa]

The current atheist movement accepts the position of matieralism without question and many are becoming as fundamentalist as the religions they criticize.

But anyways I am derailing the thread, this is about Christianity's decline more than philosophical perspectives.

Some of us aren't fond of militantism whether it's for or against religion. I don't really care what anyone else believes in, so long as they don't insist I believe or live as though I do. I even enjoy discussing beliefs with those who are comfortable with it.

 

[leibowde84]

It is to me obvious that as education and information in a society increases, greater numbers will 'think for themselves' and disregard the importance of their family's historical religious affiliation. Churches no longer provide the important social structure they once provided. I also see the rise of concepts that were once considered 'new age' and 'eastern' as exposure to new ideas grows.

I think the interesting question is what the trends are for what people do believe (beyond just the decline of older institutions).

The problem is it is pretty hard for even the subject to profess what he or she actually believes. Tough data to get.

 

[Jumi]

Most of today's atheists don't accept dialectic materialism or other communist ideas such as dictatorship of the proletariat which were the cause of many evils of the 20th century. @leibowde84 said well when he said atheism was hijacked by communists. And to be factual many atheists died because of communists at the hands of anti-communists, being killed or ostracized as possibly having communist sympathies didn't make the other side look too good either.

 

[George-ananda]

The problem is it is pretty hard for even the subject to profess what he or she actually believes. Tough data to get.

As I just added to my original post: The old question of 'Christianity vs. Atheism' is now more complicated and more are choosing none of the above.

 

[Marisa]

You are wrong. The atheistic movement is merely prudent. There is no requirement for an active belief that God cannot exist, only a lack of belief in the existence of God. Atheists are merely not willing to take the monumental leaps of faith associated with the belief that God exists.

You said it better than I could. So, touche? LOL

I hold no positive belief that no god exists. I simply have never been shown evidence that convinces me that one does. I'm happy to be proved wrong, that some god, or many gods, exist. But that doesn't mean I'll worship them. Worship is a different can of worms altogether.

 

[leibowde84]

Most of today's atheists don't accept dialectic materialism or communist ideas such as dictatorship of the proletariat which were the cause of many evils of the 20th century. @leibowde84 said well when he said atheism was hijacked by communists. And to be factual many atheists died because of communists at the hands of anti-communists, being killed or ostracized as possibly having communist sympathies didn't make the other side look too good either.

Preach!!

 

[leibowde84]

As I just added to my original post: The old question of 'Christianity vs. Atheism' is now more complicated and more are choosing none of the above.

You don't choose though. All that atheism requires is the mere lack of a belief in the existence of God. Therefore, agnostics are atheists by definition.

 

[George-ananda]

You don't choose though. All that atheism requires is the mere lack of a belief in the existence of God. Therefore, agnostics are atheists by definition.

Many people today I hear say, 'I do believe there is something' but they are not active members of the family's traditional Church. To me this seems to be a growing class.

 

[MD]

You are wrong. The atheistic movement is merely prudent. There is no requirement for an active belief that God cannot exist, only a lack of belief in the existence of God. Atheists are merely not willing to take the monumental leaps of faith associated with the belief that God exists.

No you are wrong and and you are uninformed.

There is an active movement and it exists, and it holds materialism very strongly. It denies any other views, even if they come from non materialist atheists. Nagel comes to mind. Do you even know who he is, or what he argues? How he was attacked? I would be willing to wager a big NO.

David Gelernter discusses this in depth and there are other voices within the scientific community who are concerned with the atheist movement using scientism to devalue human life.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Many people today I hear say, 'I do believe there is something' but they are not active members of the family's traditional Church. To me this seems to be a growing class.

I think spiritualism will see growth. The pew poll addresses Christianity specifically yet psychics and mediums for instance, as well as other alternative beliefs seem well headed to be arguably Christianity's replacements. Already there are notable instances where one can see mixes of other religions and beliefs to fill in the gaps of an unfulfilled religion to satiate a persons specific spiritual needs.

I think atheism gets noticed primarily when a persons spirituality feels incomplete for that person and atheism would be a preferred default venue to "chill" than a religion that essentially doesn't deliver what it markets.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You are wrong. The atheistic movement is merely prudent. There is no requirement for an active belief that God cannot exist, only a lack of belief in the existence of God. Atheists are merely not willing to take the monumental leaps of faith associated with the belief that God exists.

Actually, modern Western atheism is strongly tied into epistemological materialism. When a person says they're an atheist, it's usually assumed that they lack belief in a spiritual reality as a whole, not just lack of belief in a deity concept. Just look at this board. When that is mentioned or implied, other atheists tend not to refute it. But I have pointed it out a number of times that atheism is not the same as materialism. The distinction is being lost.

 

[MD]

Most of today's atheists don't accept dialectic materialism or other communist ideas such as dictatorship of the proletariat which were the cause of many evils of the 20th century. @leibowde84 said well when he said atheism was hijacked by communists. And to be factual many atheists died because of communists at the hands of anti-communists, being killed or ostracized as possibly having communist sympathies didn't make the other side look too good either.

Yea except the communist atheist regimes killed tens of millions of people...I doubt the opposite side did the same.

And I am not talking about dialectic materialism, I am talking about materialism as a philosophical position itself. That all aspects of human nature can be explained through empirical study. This has been philosophically shown to be impossible, but it continues to be paraded about in the atheist movement as truth and any view which opposed it is derided as 'woo'.

 

[MD]

Who knows? For sure we hold most of the shares.

Ciao

- viole

Shares?